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  • Orangeflow

    141100 Entries. 26640 places paid. 18.88% of the field will be paid. Max 150 entries. Whopping $20 entry fee for the little guy. Leaving the door open to the Pros, who play normally $5300 tournies to max out the $3000 entries in lineups which is the most narrow slate of available players of any slate.

    Most other GPP pay the field in the 25-30% range. Tough, but doable. At 18% you not only need to beat the Pros 150 lineups….but also being lucky enough to pick the right core to build your remaining roster around. Horrible odds.

    That is why they are giving FREEROLL entries (30 at a time) to get an entry in. They CANT fill it on paid entries alone…..and they know it.

    The discrepancy in payout between first and 2nd is $900,000! That is HORRIBLE! I would suggest a more balanced approach to payouts. That’s right…..forget the Millionaire approach and just make it a generous payout for the field…..then 250…..then 100….then top 10. Spread the butter out on the toast.

    The best odds for any of you entering your gpp is to simply…….

    1. Open any contest
    2. Go to details
    3. Use a calculator or google one for percentages of a number (takes 30 seconds)
    4. Play the GPP tournies with ONLY the highest percent of entries paid out!

    Some of the worst GPP to play with the worst % of the field to be paid?

    1. Big tournaments with high buy-ins (Mass entry)
    2. .25 Jukeboxes

    Some of the best GPP to play with the best % of the field to be paid?

    1. $1 GPP
    2. $2 GPP
    3. Small fielded $1-$5 GPP

    I Digress for discussion to happen….

  • KindGuy

    I’m pretty sure you’re the first person I’ve ever seen advocate for a higher % of the field to cash in these big GPPS. Top 25%-30% cash like you say here is absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary. We need to go back to the days of top 15% cash. Do you know what happens when you pay out 25-30% of the entries? You get 1.5x min cash. No one wants 1.5x min cash. I really think you’re in the minority with your opinions here.

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    The only problem is highest percentage of entries paid out doesn’t mean much either if the payout is x1.5 and you have to finish top 8% just to double or maybe trimmer te buy-in.
    They are really screwing you in every conceivable fashion now.
    I long for the days when FD structures paid out 18% or so (which I always thought was more than fair) and the min payout was x2.5 and some nights even x3.
    For a smaller stakes player like me those small differences added up quick and turned breakeven/small profit into being a losing player.

    It sucks but the constant shift means their appealing to the lowest common denominator. It tells us that they elieve the majority of players don’t even consider rake, payout percentages, min payout, etc.
    It’s structured like the lottery. Huge unobtainable prize promised to get you to play. And it’s the scratch-off structure on the backend, win something even if it’s the same or barely more than you put in, and it proved the illusion that you’re close and gets the player hooked coming back for more.

    And I’m case it didn’t come off as such, I agree with the basic premise of the OP…I just think it goes beyond the percentage paid out. And if anything the sites have used that number to skew payout structures further against the player.

  • Njsum1

    Top 20% to 22.5% with min cash 2x is fine for me.

    If 15% I would expect min cash to be 2.5 to 3x.

  • Jagwarr

    • 2016 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    The rake is getting near my state lottery on $20 tickets. It’s a fun game but enough is enough.

    Older and have been gaming/gambling on many things since the late 80’s-90’s from microgaming to CDM to Pokerstars and everything in between. There is a truth we hear.

    We need to raise the rake cause we are doing bad. Then there is the we can raise the rake cause we are doing so well.

    AC was thriving. There were these massive bus terminals all over the place shipping people to the glory and all was well. Casinos making hundreds of millions. But then came the rat. The rat said seniors are taking our buses, they are enjoying the bus ride and free lunch and we can save 10 million a year if we end those buses.

    So they listened. The buses stopped, the casinos reduced workers, the ones taking care of the vistors, the bus companies reduced drivers and the bus buiders went out of buisness. The casinos shouted we are losing money!

    Truth is a few thousand NY/NJ seniors were getting an occasional trip with a free lunch to AC and that didn“t sit well with the guys making 20m a year.

    AC is now in ruin.

    The rake will never go down, it’s not because they need money. It’s because the shareholders demand it and they are, well greedy.

  • MinusEV

    At the end of the day FanDuel and DraftKings have an inherently flawed business plan. Plan and simple.

    They’ve been married to this plan for so long that they are to cash poor to make the proper changes… they’re slowly drifting into obscurity until someone comes along and does it right.

  • MinusEV

    That’s “someone” will be a new company.

  • Orangeflow

    Do you guys take in to account from the rake FPPs that are essentially cash?

  • deejones49

    I quit when rake got to 13.5% you ole boys hang in there

  • bigez952

    @Orangeflow said...

    Do you guys take in to account from the rake FPPs that are essentially cash?

    It takes 150 FPP’s just to collect $0.25 so they are worth $0.0016 each. So if your playing a $10 buy in on average you pay $1.50 of rake and get about 1.6 cents back in FPP’s which is nothing to get excited over.

  • CUTiger81

    @elementasrat said...

    I’m pretty sure you’re the first person I’ve ever seen advocate for a higher % of the field to cash in these big GPPS. Top 25%-30% cash like you say here is absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary. We need to go back to the days of top 15% cash. Do you know what happens when you pay out 25-30% of the entries? You get 1.5x min cash. No one wants 1.5x min cash. I really think you’re in the minority with your opinions here.

    This is correct….I don’t want anything more than 20% of a tournament to cash. I like 10% to first and 19-20% of the field at least 2x their money.

  • moped_jones

    @Orangeflow said...

    The discrepancy in payout between first and 2nd is $900,000! That is HORRIBLE!

    Judging by your top scores this has never been something you’ve had to worry about.

    Also, if you know people will have 150 LU’s, why even play those games? And then come here to complain about how it’s unfair to the little guy. Play different contests. Single entry. 3 max entry. I know those prizes aren’t sexy enough for most people but at least you are going in with the same amount of bullets as everyone else.

  • 2Slik

    • Ranked #14

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @Orangeflow said...

    Do you guys take in to account from the rake FPPs that are essentially cash?

    It’s becoming obvious that there will always be division on where these sites can make money and where they should. I’m starting to think they should purposefully make a large +20% rake, $3 or 4 tourney for those “chasing the dream”. Then create a sister tourney, same entry fee, but 1/2 of the prize pool with 10% to cater to the crowd who understands rake and what needs to occur in the ecosystem of DFS.

    i.e. 100k prize pool / 125k overall
    50k prize pool / 55.6k overall

    There’s an additional 1% rake overall and I know the 100k tourney would fill before the 50k.

    We all know how strategic both DFS players and the sites are. The sites are openly taking advantage of double rake with ticket games, it’s about time they create lower rake tourneys to draw the attention of savvy players.

  • Orangeflow

    @moped_jones said...

    Judging by your top scores this has never been something you’ve had to worry about.

    Also, if you know people will have 150 LU’s, why even play those games? And then come here to complain about how it’s unfair to the little guy. Play different contests. Single entry. 3 max entry. I know those prizes aren’t sexy enough for most people but at least you are going in with the same amount of bullets as everyone else.

    I have taken down a few gpps kid and I STILL think the money should be spread out more. I just registered with this RG ranking system so you can see where and when I play although coming here for years unregistered.

    Many pros dont bother with the petty ranking system. I could care less either. It is a false impression system. Like saying you have won 150 million in 8 ball pool but only have 600k in liquid currency. Junk!

  • deejones49

    Waiting on 50% rake so i can get back in

  • madmanjayWV

    @Orangeflow said...

    141100 Entries. 26640 places paid. 18.88% of the field will be paid. Max 150 entries. Whopping $20 entry fee for the little guy. Leaving the door open to the Pros, who play normally $5300 tournies to max out the $3000 entries in lineups which is the most narrow slate of available players of any slate.

    Most other GPP pay the field in the 25-30% range. Tough, but doable. At 18% you not only need to beat the Pros 150 lineups….but also being lucky enough to pick the right core to build your remaining roster around. Horrible odds.

    That is why they are giving FREEROLL entries (30 at a time) to get an entry in. They CANT fill it on paid entries alone…..and they know it.

    The discrepancy in payout between first and 2nd is $900,000! That is HORRIBLE! I would suggest a more balanced approach to payouts. That’s right…..forget the Millionaire approach and just make it a generous payout for the field…..then 250…..then 100….then top 10. Spread the butter out on the toast.

    The best odds for any of you entering your gpp is to simply…….

    1. Open any contest
    2. Go to details
    3. Use a calculator or google one for percentages of a number (takes 30 seconds)
    4. Play the GPP tournies with ONLY the highest percent of entries paid out!

    Some of the worst GPP to play with the worst % of the field to be paid?

    1. Big tournaments with high buy-ins (Mass entry)
    2. .25 Jukeboxes

    Some of the best GPP to play with the best % of the field to be paid?

    1. $1 GPP
    2. $2 GPP
    3. Small fielded $1-$5 GPP

    I Digress for discussion to happen….

    I truly swear – I wish I could be the #LITTLEGUY who one time maxes out a 20 entry $1 CONTEST
    #KEEPdaFAITH

  • madmanjayWV

    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    The only problem is highest percentage of entries paid out doesn’t mean much either if the payout is x1.5 and you have to finish top 8% just to double or maybe trimmer te buy-in.
    They are really screwing you in every conceivable fashion now.
    I long for the days when FD structures paid out 18% or so (which I always thought was more than fair) and the min payout was x2.5 and some nights even x3.
    For a smaller stakes player like me those small differences added up quick and turned breakeven/small profit into being a losing player.

    It sucks but the constant shift means their appealing to the lowest common denominator. It tells us that they elieve the majority of players don’t even consider rake, payout percentages, min payout, etc.
    It’s structured like the lottery. Huge unobtainable prize promised to get you to play. And it’s the scratch-off structure on the backend, win something even if it’s the same or barely more than you put in, and it proved the illusion that you’re close and gets the player hooked coming back for more.

    And I’m case it didn’t come off as such, I agree with the basic premise of the OP…I just think it goes beyond the percentage paid out. And if anything the sites have used that number to skew payout structures further against the player.

    GREAT response as per usual ^

    I’d just add —- I always have – did — still do — look at what %‘s – are being “PAID OUT

    but the bigger ? – what -tile? — does 1 need to finish to ASSURE 2x or at least 3x their BUY-IN…when u gotta have a 94-tile LU to get 2x on your RISKGPP entry…that’s not good……..but go look

  • madmanjayWV

    @Jagwarr said...

    The rake is getting near my state lottery on $20 tickets. It’s a fun game but enough is enough.

    Older and have been gaming/gambling on many things since the late 80’s-90’s from microgaming to CDM to Pokerstars and everything in between. There is a truth we hear.

    We need to raise the rake cause we are doing bad. Then there is the we can raise the rake cause we are doing so well.

    AC was thriving. There were these massive bus terminals all over the place shipping people to the glory and all was well. Casinos making hundreds of millions. But then came the rat. The rat said seniors are taking our buses, they are enjoying the bus ride and free lunch and we can save 10 million a year if we end those buses.

    So they listened. The buses stopped, the casinos reduced workers, the ones taking care of the vistors, the bus companies reduced drivers and the bus buiders went out of buisness. The casinos shouted we are losing money!

    Truth is a few thousand NY/NJ seniors were getting an occasional trip with a free lunch to AC and that didn“t sit well with the guys making 20m a year.

    AC is now in ruin.

    The rake will never go down, it’s not because they need money. It’s because the shareholders demand it and they are, well greedy.

    WOW ^^ night b4 last i read something just like that – i know where u VISIT ^

  • RangerC

    18% paid is great! Move this contest down to 10% rake, pay 400K to first and you actually have a reasonable contest (unfortunately the top heavy prize destroys this anyway). The combination of 15% rake and paying 25-30% of the field has completely destroyed GPPs – you can hit in the top .05% and get $200 or less on a $4 entry (and on some slates you have almost no other options than these). I’m like most everyone here it seems – I play because I got hooked back when the games were good but there’s no way I could recommend DFS to a friend at this point, or see myself getting into it if I started now.

  • DoubleTime

    • 2016 King of Summer: August

    @RangerC said...

    I play because I got hooked back when the games were good but there’s no way I could recommend DFS to a friend at this point, or see myself getting into it if I started now.

    Same, totally the same. Seems like DFS started out the right way. Built up a nice userbase by offering solid contests. Then they screwed up and overspent with the ad blitz, and now are trying to make up for it by structuring contests in a way that only benefits themselves. Just seems like they are trying to manipulate things way too much, and it’s gimmicky af. We like sports, we like gaming. Keep it consistent. The fun part is working at it and trying to improve, but when you are no longer adequately rewarded for solid finishes, there isn’t a whole lot of incentive to try and get better. They should never pay over 20% in a gpp, it unnecessarily thins things out and doesn’t leave enough money left over for the top part of the structure. I wonder if DFS started out with structures the way they are now, if it ever would have caught fire like it did? I guess maybe since contests are still filling, but I think it would be bigger today if they hadn’t started screwing with things last football season.

  • Unico10

    • 523

      RG Overall Ranking

    How messed up is the payout structure and rake?

    Look no further than this two examples:
    PGA tournament Birdie with 20max entries and $4 entry fees. This “should be” not one of the worst payouts structure and certainly not one of the pie-in-the-sky tournaments with 150max….

    Last week I placed 10 of my 20 entries. That is 50% of the entries in the top 20ish% and I got back $81 of the $80 entries.
    Right now I am placing 12 of my 20 entries and losing 81 cents

    Clearly didn’t place anything really high…. but the point is that the min cash should be 2x
    DFS is difficult enough and edges are disappearing, when one does significantly better than field as in above examples, one shouldn’t lose money

  • tmarohl

    I don’t care as much about the rake as I do the top heavy nature of GPP’s. I think they should flatten out the payout structures.

  • depalma13

    $1 million pool.

    $5 entry, top 225 win $4,000, rest win nothing.

    With a 10% rake, the churn would be tremendous and the sites would make a killing.

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