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  • rsrunningrebels

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    Dear RotoGrinders Community Members,

    I have one simple question: Do you feel that 20 and/or 50 Entry Max on all main GPPs would help level the DFS playing field or not?

    I’m not interested whether or not you think FD or DK would or would not eventually implement this proposal, rather; I’m solely interested in your opinion regarding whether or not limiting entries levels the playing field in GPPs.

    Specifically pertaining to $8 and $33/$40/$55 GPPs.

    Whether you are a legendary fisherman casting 150 times in a Pro Bass tourney or a kid fishing off the pier with just one line(up) at a time; your input is greatly appreciated.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    I personally think the top players would continue to win, that’s if they even continued playing as the prize pools would be MUCH smaller without all the max entry participants.

  • celtics2448

    Yes, the lower the entry limits the more “real” the competition becomes. If i had the funds, i could hedge 150 lineups in multiple tourneys and hit a big prize once a week with little to no skill (no positive ROI guaranteed of course) but If the limit is 20, i need to put more thought into my process. With few exceptions on FD, i play almost the single entry games exclusively and i regularly recognize some usernames on the top of the leader board which means these guys no doubt have skill to adjust to a lower entry limit.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I think SOME (most?) of the top players would remain at the top, while others would fall by the wayside and be exposed by the reduction in max entries. Would this help to level the playing field? Well, someone would have to replace the top players that would fall by the wayside, but then this would just create a new heirarchy. So to answer your question, i dont think it would level the playing field much as the 75%-80% of DFS players that suck would still suck obviously. It would simply rotate some new players to the top while giving the lower skilled players a better chance of binking a tournament.

    But like somebody else said, you reduce the max entry limit, you reduce these huge prizepools. Also, with collusion being an obvious issue, people will always find a way to skirt the max entries. I think the colluders would simply come up with new tactics. One possible tactic I witnessed in my 20 max entry contest $4 Flare contest this past Sunday was two players who in the past have been accused of collusion seemingly polarizing their stacks and pitchers. One guy had PIT and/or MIL stacks while the other guy on 10 of his 20 teams had either the opposing CHC or NYY pitcher. Coincidence on a 20 team slate? I think not……

    I think all things considered, 150 max entry is about as good as you are going to get. I’d prefer 100, but 150 is better than 500 or unlimited. Also, there are such a wide range of contests now ie 1 max, 3 max, 20 max, 150 max I think if you are a good player, you can find your niche, succeed, and possibly move up the ladder of max entry contests.

  • Olhausen

    20-50 is perfect and DK is already doing that now for a lot of the contests. The quarter arcade, solo shot and even the four seamer are all 20 entry max limit most nights. Only the big 50k to first type contests allow 150 and I think that’s fine.

  • dbullsfan

    • Ranked #48

      RG Tiered Ranking

    I think you might see more average to above average players take down GPP’s but you will also see the slightly above average and worse players miss the money a lot more. You gotta figure if every person who max enters 150 lineups is cashing in 50 of those that is 100 lineups not cashing. Force the bigger players to limit their player pool and they probable are cashing say 12 of 20 lineups and only not cashing 8. A lot of your players who are just keeping their bankroll by min cashing all the time are going to lose their money.

  • Roma315

    I like 50 compared to 20 especially on the 15 game slates. I think 75 would be a good compromise

  • Njsum1

    I would love to see 500 entry max brought back to the $1 to $4 dollar GPPs. This way we can get significant prize pools for less money. I know that my 2 to 10 lineups, or however many I’d play for a given slate would be less likely to win, yet they’d be way more likely to cash and my bankroll would be much more likely to grow.

  • KindGuy

    @Njsum1 said...

    I would love to see 500 entry max brought back to the $1 to $4 dollar GPPs. This way we can get significant prize pools for less money. I know that my 2 to 10 lineups, or however many I’d play for a given slate would be less likely to win, yet they’d be way more likely to cash and my bankroll would be much more likely to grow.

    Hell no

  • Njsum1

    @elementasrat said...

    Hell no

    To what? You don’t want to see 500 entry max? Or are you arguing with the veracity of my statement. While you’re certainly entitled to your opinion on 500 entry max, what I said is in fact the truth. The higher the entry limit, the easier it is for a moderately skilled player who only enters a handful of lineups to cash. Again I’m not saying it’s better for my odds of winning, or even a super high cash, yet it’s better for my odds of cashing somewhere in the 1.5 to 8x(ish) range. Plus I also have the chance, albeit a small one to win a large sum of money for a very small investment.

  • WidumBoise

    I just don’t get why tournaments have to be CAPPED at total number of entires.

    Think of a MTT poker tournament that SMASHES it’s GTD prize pool.

    Each new entrant creates more prize pool money, including more and bigger payouts.

    Why doesn’t DK or FD create some tournaments where the entry limit for a SINGLE user is still 20 entries, but the tournament HAS NO MAXIMUM number of total entries.

    The prize pool will just grow exponentially as it continues to SMASH the GTD..

  • cmbarbee226

    @WidumBoise said...

    I just don’t get why tournaments have to be CAPPED at total number of entires.

    Think of a MTT poker tournament that SMASHES it’s GTD prize pool.

    Each new entrant creates more prize pool money, including more and bigger payouts.

    Why doesn’t DK or FD create some tournaments where the entry limit for a SINGLE user is still 20 entries, but the tournament HAS NO MAXIMUM number of total entries.

    The prize pool will just grow exponentially as it continues to SMASH the GTD..

    Against the law

  • hautalak

    @Njsum1 said...

    To what? You don’t want to see 500 entry max? Or are you arguing with the veracity of my statement. While you’re certainly entitled to your opinion on 500 entry max, what I said is in fact the truth. The higher the entry limit, the easier it is for a moderately skilled player who only enters a handful of lineups to cash. Again I’m not saying it’s better for my odds of winning, or even a super high cash, yet it’s better for my odds of cashing somewhere in the 1.5 to 8x(ish) range. Plus I also have the chance, albeit a small one to win a large sum of money for a very small investment.

    I’m just wondering what makes you think cashing will be easier? The fact that there are more dead lineups and more getting payed? Sharks are still going to be swimming in those and I’m sure their 500 lineups will be pretty damn good. Sure a lot will lose but more times than not they are profiting, and some will fall into that 1.5x-8x you are talking about. I’m all for having higher limits than 20 in low stakes but 500 is pushing it. It probably doesn’t matter because limits will not increase.

  • Njsum1

    @hautalak said...

    I’m just wondering what makes you think cashing will be easier? The fact that there are more dead lineups and more getting payed? Sharks are still going to be swimming in those and I’m sure their 500 lineups will be pretty damn good. Sure a lot will lose but more times than not they are profiting, and some will fall into that 1.5x-8x you are talking about. I’m all for having higher limits than 20 in low stakes but 500 is pushing it. It probably doesn’t matter because limits will not increase.

    Yes exactly….. many many more poor lineups and of course more people getting paid since the tourney will have more entries. Doesn’t matter how good you are, if you enter 500 lineups you’re entering some very -EV lineups while attempting to be contrarian with some knowingly poor plays in an effort to WIN the tourney. I was also talking about the lower dollar tournaments where I’d guess some very average to poor players will max enter because they can afford to.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @WidumBoise said...

    I just don’t get why tournaments have to be CAPPED at total number of entires.

    Think of a MTT poker tournament that SMASHES it’s GTD prize pool.

    Each new entrant creates more prize pool money, including more and bigger payouts.

    Why doesn’t DK or FD create some tournaments where the entry limit for a SINGLE user is still 20 entries, but the tournament HAS NO MAXIMUM number of total entries.

    The prize pool will just grow exponentially as it continues to SMASH the GTD..

    Law states you have to have a defined number of entries when you set up the tournament.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @Njsum1 said...

    I would love to see 500 entry max brought back to the $1 to $4 dollar GPPs. This way we can get significant prize pools for less money. I know that my 2 to 10 lineups, or however many I’d play for a given slate would be less likely to win, yet they’d be way more likely to cash and my bankroll would be much more likely to grow.

    What was your ROI when there was 500 or unlimited entry in GPP?

  • RollinNolan

    I would love if they lowered the max entry. I think around 50-75 max entries would be a solid amount. I don’t think it would help with the collusion but it would allow smaller fish to have more of a chance vs the sharks. This would definitely level the playing field a little bit. It could also potentially attract new people to DFS. Which would level the playing field even more.
    Sincerely,
    Kid Fishing off the Pier

  • hautalak

    @Njsum1 said...

    I was also talking about the lower dollar tournaments where I’d guess some very average to poor players will max enter because they can afford to.

    I guess that’s an overlooked aspect but I still think contests would be the same difficulty. With 500 lineups I feel like pros will have their “cores” but just be able to use a lot more pivots they like that might not necessarily make them lose or be -EV. That’s just my opinion.

  • rannas23

    I like the 50-75 lineups also. I just don’t understand why they don’t give us more options with the price if not tournament size. I look on Baseball for Friday and if your a person who likes to enter more than 20 lineups…your options are the $5 (which is good because its usually $8), and then it jumps all the way to $55….what the hell..where is a $27 or $33 tournament. They could easily do $20 and $15 also with a lower size entry pool and still offer a good top prize for intermediate players but never offer these tournaments. Again, I’m not talking about the 3 entries or single entry contest. I’m talking about the ability to enter more than 20 if you want. You know they would fill because sharks would enter them too and the size pool would be smaller. Why go from $5 to $55…would they lose money or something with too many different types of contests? I am just glad they brought in a $5 one though…plan on entering 40 lineups.

  • madmanjayWV

    @Njsum1 said...

    I would love to see 500 entry max brought back to the $1 to $4 dollar GPPs. This way we can get significant prize pools for less money. I know that my 2 to 10 lineups, or however many I’d play for a given slate would be less likely to win, yet they’d be way more likely to cash and my bankroll would be much more likely to grow.

    For example on FD — PLEASE bring back like a 150-entry $1 sac fly — with a NICE FAT TOP PRIZE — you can still run your CRAPPY $5,000 SAC FLY 3 max entry limit or $8,9K+ whatever they fill like posting that day.

  • Njsum1

    @hautalak said...

    I guess that’s an overlooked aspect but I still think contests would be the same difficulty. With 500 lineups I feel like pros will have their “cores” but just be able to use a lot more pivots they like that might not necessarily make them lose or be -EV. That’s just my opinion.

    Another thing to consider with a low dollar (say $1 for this example) 500 max GPP, other than weaker opponents max entering because they can afford it, is other entrants who rarely play DFS at all, are also more likely to play because people generally like the idea of putting in a few dollars with the chance to win a lot, even if the chance is slim. Same idea with the lotto, you got your regular players who will play often and for any size jackpot then you have the people who only play when the jackpot gets huge. So upping the max entry to 500 for low dollar tourneys would IMO create a much larger prize pool, which would attract more casual players, in turn producing a weaker overall playing field making extremely good players a smaller part of the field allowing a higher cash rate for solid limited entry players.

  • hautalak

    @Njsum1 said...

    So upping the max entry to 500 for low dollar tourneys would IMO create a much larger prize pool, which would attract more casual players, in turn producing a weaker overall playing field making extremely good players a smaller part of the field allowing a higher cash rate for solid limited entry players.

    I feel like that’s the vicious cycle of DFS. When people start losing and see they’re losing to a lot of the same guys or the guys that run 500 lineups they will stop playing. At the same time I guess it wouldn’t matter because no matter what, these would fill. I do not know what the best answer is, or if there even is one. One thing I do know is 20 entry max is way too low for low stakes, even with me being a guy playing a few lineups.

  • TeamTwerk

    I don’t think it’s so much “leveling the field”. There is no advantage gained by the multi enterer over the single bullet entry. The contest is fair and level in that respect. Most people simply want to play in softer contests with fewer pro entries.

  • rsrunningrebels

    • 332

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    • Ranked #51

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    @TeamTwerk said...

    There is no advantage gained by the multi enterer over the single bullet entry.

    Please elaborate.

  • TeamTwerk

    @rsrunningrebels said...

    Please elaborate.

    I just mean that if 100 people all of the same skill level each entered 1 lineup that that they would fair about the same as 1 person of that same skill level entering 100 lineups. I don’t think entering a batch of lineups or covering all bases would give you an advantage beyond the EV of each individual lineup. What do you think?

  • billholler

    @celtics2448 said...

    If i had the funds, i could hedge 150 lineups in multiple tourneys and hit a big prize once a week with little to no skil

    Absolutely not true. If it was that easy, the best DFSers would win a big GPP every single week and that just doesn’t happen. Love seeing people that say “if I only had the bankroll”. Yet there are thousands and thousands of players that do have the bankroll and no one ever wins GPPs the way you say you could.

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