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  • rsrunningrebels

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    Dear RotoGrinders Community Members,

    I have one simple question: Do you feel that 20 and/or 50 Entry Max on all main GPPs would help level the DFS playing field or not?

    I’m not interested whether or not you think FD or DK would or would not eventually implement this proposal, rather; I’m solely interested in your opinion regarding whether or not limiting entries levels the playing field in GPPs.

    Specifically pertaining to $8 and $33/$40/$55 GPPs.

    Whether you are a legendary fisherman casting 150 times in a Pro Bass tourney or a kid fishing off the pier with just one line(up) at a time; your input is greatly appreciated.

  • rsrunningrebels

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    JJWD,

    Thanks for that feedback. But sir, you haven’t answered my question. Do you ever max enter 150 LUs in GPPs?

  • jjwd

    yes I do

  • rannas23

    On DK tonight in Baseball. If your a multi enter that wants to do more than 20 entries per GPP featured tournament….are your only options on the Main Slate $5 then jumps all the way to $55?

    Can they not offer more different prized tournaments between those prices or are they afraid overlay and will lose money? Seems the company would make more money with more different varying costs entry tournaments. Doesn’t have to be a big field for $20/$27/$33 featured GPP tournaments for a decent top prize or prize pool once you go in those price ranges. I do wish though when the field size decreases that they would come down on their 150 max entry…maybe 75 or something.

  • jjwd

    @rannas23 said...

    Can they not offer more different prized tournaments between those prices or are they afraid overlay and will lose money? Seems the company would make more money with more different varying costs entry tournaments.

    Well said. This point has caused many people much confusion and consternation. If you have the bankroll to max out the 55 dollar (I don’t whatsoever, by the way), you can gain a LOT of leverage there. So lowering the max entry on such contests would arguably “level the playing field”. But good luck with that because DK has apparently decided that they need all of the rake from those guys, especially as they implement 20 max in the lower stakes… catering to the perception that 150 is unfair. But ironically, max entry has less effect in lower stakes, larger tournaments.

  • rsrunningrebels

    • 330

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    @rannas23 said...

    Can they not offer more different prized tournaments between those prices or are they afraid overlay and will lose money?

    Thanks for your feedback rannas23.

    DK has a Product Operations and Analytics team that does extensive research to make sure they are posting the right size contests everyday. And yes overlay is a topic that gets addressed. I reccomend you reach out to their support desk and ask for them to decrease their max entry allowed to 75 as you propose. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the response you receive to your request.

  • rannas23

    Thanks rsrunningrebels….I actually sent you a private message yesterday through this RG site asking your opinion on this stuff. Its just odd to see the 150 max on smaller field high price tournaments.

    But do you have an opinion on why they don’t offer more cost entry variety in their featured contests? Why today on DK you either have to choose from $5 or $55 if you want to multienter a decent prize GPP? Can they not offer $10/$20/$27/$33 types contests or would they not fill…I’m sure the sharks would enter whatever the max is set too for those contests. I mean a $20 entry contest for 20-25K top prize would entice me to throw some lineups in it…it doesn’t have to be such a big field size to garner 100k if they are worried it won’t fill. It would be nice to at least see them test this out, or respond with some substance to an inquiry if I ask them …who knows maybe those contest fill and create more winners to cycle they system and they actually make money.

  • KindGuy

    @rannas23 said...

    Why today on DK you either have to choose from $5 or $55 if you want to multienter a decent prize GPP? Can they not offer $10/$20/$27/$33 types contests or would they not fill

    They used to……….

    until they realized that people would still fill up their contests at the same rake and higher price.

  • rannas23

    I agree with jjwd…max entry has a lower effect on lower stakes, larger tournaments. If you have the bankroll, higher stakes, and smaller sized tournaments are where max entry or even half of max entry is more impactful. Unfortunately DK is showing today on MLB that there is no middle class or middle ground. You either do the $5 or for lower bankrolls or you have to throw 1-3 lineups in the $55 and compete with the multi entry highrollers. Its almost like they are catering to the sharks since they know the people with lower bankrolls won’t have the same odds with them in the high stakes games when they multi enter. But if they offered us some more choices of price entry contests and field size maybe some of us can build our bankrolls and continue growth among players. While also lowering the entry limit to a reasonable 50-75 entries in these smaller sized contests. But no, lets just keep the $5 players on one side of the room to play baseball lottery tonight and get the sharks on the other side of the room in the $55 contests to increase their odds of winning. I know I’m ranting and complaining but when DK won’t give you an answer with substance, the forum is where you turn too…and also the booze.

  • wildcats2895

    You hit it right on the head I agree 100 percent what makes the top players is no doubt a lot to do with there bank roll I put anywhere from 3 to 5 hours a day into my research process and I am confident in my process against anyone my 1 lu against yours if had some limited success over the years but can never compete on a nightly basis with the max out guys

  • rsrunningrebels

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    • Ranked #51

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    @wildcats2895 said...

    You hit it right on the head I agree 100 percent what makes the top players is no doubt a lot to do with there bank roll I put anywhere from 3 to 5 hours a day into my research process and I am confident in my process against anyone my 1 lu against yours if had some limited success over the years but can never compete on a nightly basis with the max out guys

    Wildcats2895,

    “Trust the Process.” This is what a good DFS friend told me when I started to doubt if I could compete with the 150 max enterers on a nightly basis. I continued to trust my process and did decent against them, some “limited success” as you describe. This is when I realized I needed something more than just “trusting the process” to augment and sustain “limited success.” I needed to advocate for change to the max entry allowed on DK.

    Don’t hesitate to advocate for this change yourself; a concerted and colllective effort is needed. The 150 max enterers will tell you time and time again that decreasing the max entries allowed exponentially will do nothing to improve your chances of “leveling the playing field.” They will also continue to insist that DK and/or FD will never implement this change you are advocating for because it is disadvantageous to these companies and will significant decrease their rakes. Neither of these statements are true. They are just trying to discourage you and others from continuing to make a concerted effort to get this change implemented because the current platform allows them to have a significant edge over the majority of the rest of the field. Hang in there Wildcats2895!

  • dbullsfan

    • Ranked #47

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    @wildcats2895 said...

    You hit it right on the head I agree 100 percent what makes the top players is no doubt a lot to do with there bank roll I put anywhere from 3 to 5 hours a day into my research process and I am confident in my process against anyone my 1 lu against yours if had some limited success over the years but can never compete on a nightly basis with the max out guys

    not just you but I wonder how many people that have this thought are max entering the quarter arcade opposed to say 1-3 lineups in the $4. If you truly believe that having more lineups is the difference opposed to being better/better research/etc… than just keep max entering the quarter arcade and build your bankroll up to compete at the higher stakes.

  • rsrunningrebels

    • 330

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    • Ranked #51

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    @dbullsfan said...

    not just you but I wonder how many people that have this thought are max entering the quarter arcade opposed to say 1-3 lineups in the $4. If you truly believe that having more lineups is the difference opposed to being better/better research/etc… than just keep max entering the quarter arcade and build your bankroll up to compete at the higher stakes.

    Dbullsfan,

    Do people actually max enter 150 in quarter arcades? Would it even be smart to max enter in this type of tourney? Aren’t those contests limited in entry size?

  • Rycol19

    I would love to see more 3x max and 20-50 max plays. I would also like to see DK limit the number of contests someone can enter. That would help the casual player in the $5-$10-$20-$50 H2H eliminating the same names you see in most of those contests. I do realize DK would be shooting themselves in the foot if they did, but it would generate more interest in them. Nothing more frustrating than seeing two sharks entered in a $10 H2H 20 times.

  • timusbr

    i have definite opinions on this. I was a single bullet player for years, last year I became a max multi entry player in the quarter/dollar. The Game theory I convinced myself on was a smart and lucky max player had an edge over a smart and lucky single bullet guy. I went after max play with a gusto. At this time max play was 50 entries. I have been building 50 entries for just under 1 year. I love it, A professional experience to a minimum price. I wish I could throw down 150 entries at $333 each, I would give the pros a run for their money IMHO. But alas I cannot even do 150 LU’s in the $3 or $4 contest. When They limited the contests to 20 entries…..I just had a hard time adjusting. all of a sudden my LU generation (yes I generate my own LU’s – generation and optimization is someone else algorithm that should never be used) is out of wack. % to use players how I can best utilize stacks all became outdated. I am on the verge of going back to cash game philosophy. DK wont weep over the less money I spend each week, but it sure takes my enjoyment and passion out of the game. I would play 150 LU in the quarter arcade($37.50) in a heartbeat over a 1 LU $37. Way more fun potential of way less profit, but I never bought into the $1Million dollar dream, just wanted to have a little something invested and have some fun.

  • timusbr

    @rsrunningrebels said...

    Do people actually max enter 150 in quarter arcades? Would it even be smart to max enter in this type of tourney? Aren’t those contests limited in entry size?

    The potential size of a contest in the quarter contest with 150 max LU would increase the prize pool and the # of entries cashing that would make the contest doable for 150 max entry.

    without a win or top 3 finish the big bucks are out the window, but maintaining a profit or break even point is not so difficult. I am not saying easy because maintaining a profit or break even point with 1 LU is not easy. But the little guy who puts in 1 entry is frustrated that 1 guy can have a successful stack that can blanket the top 100 in a contest. the overall profit is 5x – 10x investment, a guy that has 20% of max LU make the money is still close to break even. at least at .25 cents it isnt going to send you to the poor house.

  • jjwd

    @rsrunningrebels said...

    Don’t hesitate to advocate for this change yourself; a concerted and colllective effort is needed. The 150 max enterers will tell you time and time again that decreasing the max entries allowed exponentially will do nothing to improve your chances of “leveling the playing field.”

    Dumb to lump all max entry players together, as if they all have the same opinion. Also many people (like myself) vary the amount of entries depending on their bankroll and the slate/situation. Thirdly, you still haven’t described what you mean by “level playing field”. Means different things to different people.

  • zline34

    @bhdevault said...

    I personally think the top players would continue to win, that’s if they even continued playing as the prize pools would be MUCH smaller without all the max entry participants.

    Not a chance. I followed closely on DK when the 20 max contests were going strong and none the of the sharks ever took one down. Most barely even min cashed, It leveled the field tremendously.. I’ve seen so many sharks win a tourney over the years with ONE lineup out of the 150 that was just thrown into the mix because they could. Those lineups were never part of their core lineups. Those lineups would never have been entered into a 20 Max. EX. Papagates one week had entered 150 lineups and only one of those lineups was a bottom of the order Twins stack. Guess which lineup took down the tourney? My point is 150 is a huge advantage. Much more than people resize, especially at the higher buy in level where others can’t afford to max enter.

  • jjwd

    @zline34 said...

    Not a chance. I followed closely on DK when the 20 max contests were going strong and none the of the sharks ever took one down. Most barely even min cashed, It leveled the field tremendously..

    This is incorrect, and frankly laughable

  • zline34

    @jjwd said...

    This is incorrect, and frankly laughable

    Says the kid without a linked account.

  • zline34

    @jjwd said...

    This is incorrect, and frankly laughable

    I went over every single contest each night. I provide facts. You say something is incorrect without any proof or any evidence to back up your claims. This is frankly laughable.

  • jjwd

    @zline34 said...

    I went over every single contest each night. I provide facts. You say something is incorrect without any proof or any evidence to back up your claims. This is frankly laughable.

    The OP thinks I’m a shark because I max enter sometimes. I’ve won tournaments with 20 entries recently. And I min cash some lineups in 20 max tournaments every night. Does this mean I’m better than all the sharks? LOL

  • jjwd

    @zline34 said...

    I went over every single contest each night. I provide facts.

    You have provided zero facts

  • zline34

    @jjwd said...

    The OP thinks I’m a shark because I max enter sometimes. I’ve won tournaments with 20 entries recently. And I min cash some lineups in 20 max tournaments every night. Does this mean I’m better than all the sharks? LOL

    You just proved my argument LOL that even a random like you can even take down a 20 max. No, you’re not a shark. You aren’t max entering every single tournament each day with 150 linueps. And you probably play $1-3 contests which has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

  • zline34

    @jjwd said...

    You have provided zero facts

    I can email you hundreds of excel sheets without results of each 20 max tourney from the NBA season if you would like.

  • jjwd

    @zline34 said...

    You just proved my argument LOL that even a random like you can even take down a 20 max. No, you’re not a shark. You aren’t max entering every single tournament each day with 150 linueps. And you probably play $1-3 contests which has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

    This thread has gotten so silly that it should be locked. The OP has accused every max entry player of being a liar (with no proof). And this guy I’ve quoted here… well he speaks for himself. I encourage you guys to be more logical and researched before you make sweeping, inaccurate statements which only divide the DFS community and create undo resentment. Not every winning player is a sleezebag, most of them just work hard and spend years getting better.

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