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  • crazypaul

    I am fully aware that there are lineup providers all over social media that sell / provide lineups, however, I never realized just how popular these accounts were. Last night in the $2 SHOT on FD, there were 465 people tied for 317th place with the same exact lineup and almost all of them were single entries & not a train. This same lineup placed first in several of my 50/50’s & a local contest for Magic fans I was entered in.

    I’ve never really complained about lineup sellers before because I really didnt think they were that popular, but who ever provided that lineup yesterday seems to have a lot of customers. I think this is horrible for the “skill” aspect of DFS but I dont really think there is any way to stop it. Has anyone else ever noticed that many people having the same lineup before? Im pretty sure this was from a lineup provider because it’s unlikely that many people were on the same lineup on such a large slate.

    The lineup in question was: Deron Williams, Russell Westbrook, Wesley Matthews, James Harden, Tobias Harris, Shabazz Muhammad, Taj Gibson, Frank Kaminsky, & Demarcus Cousins and scored 346.8 FPS.

  • shockermandan

    I don’t think anyone is going to argue against you that there are pockets of people getting their lineups from the same source, whether it be purchased, offered up for free or some other way.

    I pretty frequently see pockets of same lineups where I consider whether they were purchased or from the same source.

    It’s kind of a bummer, but it is the DFS world we’re operating in.

    My biggest takeaway is this: That was a good lineup. It still didn’t win. And in a tournament you’re shooting to come in the top 10 in, you just eliminated 464 unique lineup possibilities from contention.

  • bucherpsu08

    I wouldn’t worry too much about it. That’s less than 1% of the entire tournament. I would put the lineup sellers in the same bucket as anyone/site providing a free optimizer. There are plenty of them out there, RG even offers the lineup builder for free. Theoretically, someone could visit RG or any other site at 6:50 and just blindly run the lineup builder/optimizer and throw the lineup it spits out into a tourney.

  • chuckbaldy79

    That’s because they all preach variance and it doesn’t mean shit. Every time I look at the winners of the gpps on DK they are always 5 straight chalk players and 3 mid tier chalk players

  • hendry

    @chuckbaldy79 said...

    That’s because they all preach variance and it doesn’t mean shit. Every time I look at the winners of the gpps on DK they are always 5 straight chalk players and 3 mid tier chalk players

    why dont you just play chalk and win? dont give away your secrets bro

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    @bucherpsu08 said...

    I wouldn’t worry too much about it. That’s less than 1% of the entire tournament. I would put the lineup sellers in the same bucket as anyone/site providing a free optimizer. There are plenty of them out there, RG even offers the lineup builder for free. Theoretically, someone could visit RG or any other site at 6:50 and just blindly run the lineup builder/optimizer and throw the lineup it spits out into a tourney.

    It can be more of an issue though in cash games when 10-30% of the lineups are the same duplicate entry.

    I mentioned that last night in the CBB thread because that’s what I saw. I beat the lineup, but it still cashed so it screwed other people. I wrote FD support because I’m seeing it more and more, They did say some non-specific stuff about having people that monitor things, but then they used Randall Cobb (and his injury this past week) as an example of why this is actually is a good thing and works in my favor. And if I wasn’t buying that, they basically said it was on us to consistently beat these lineups to deter people from going to lineup sellers. So woo hoo, I guess I did my part last night…

    As I mentioned in the other thread, while others may not feel the same, it’s a huge issue to me, because where inundated with the call to “build better lineups” so I don’t see any way to defend a group of people who literally doesn’t build A lineup.
    It also seems like a potential issue, because if I was a casual player or just starting, I could see myself being really pissed off by this (especially with the current media DFS narratives). The fight to keep DFS legal revolves around it being a game of skill. You can’t make that argument if you’re purchasing and copying and pasting lineups, that’s straight up gambling. It’s yet another thing, if ignored, could wind up biting them in the ass.

  • smallANDflaccid

    In the game theory sense – would you like to know your opponents’ lineups before the game starts? Would that be advantageous to you?

  • smutpeddlers

    I would honestly just let this thread get buried in the posts by not making any more posts. In making these type of posts, people will start to seek these people out, especially new players. It is like free promotion for these such people.

    Just a thought and would be a crafty way to keep themselves relevant. If I didn’t know better, I could think you were a provider trying to get free promotion back handedly.

  • easternmh

    • x3

      Blogger of the Month

    Looks like there were around 45 people in the $5 gpp that had that lineup. It doesn’t bother me when people do this in gpps bc of the reason shockerman stated. It’s the single entry 50/50s where it gets really annoying

  • bucherpsu08

    I understand the frustration but I guess I find the post a bit hypocritical since we are all posting on a site that basically provides a FREE version of what you have an issue with.

  • Russthabus26

    It’s actually Rotowire’s optimal line up. I was watching the NBA tv fantasy tip off show last week and the optimal lineup would have won some serious money so I played it last night in one GPP for shits and giggles. I was in one of the mini-shots and won 61.25 off 2 bucks. I agree that it is a bit silly because even in my small tournament 8 people had it.

  • jv21

    • Ranked #92

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @chuckbaldy79 said...

    That’s because they all preach variance and it doesn’t mean shit. Every time I look at the winners of the gpps on DK they are always 5 straight chalk players and 3 mid tier chalk players

    Actually you are wrong. Work on your game theory. Variance is real. No one is preaching you to go full contrarian and play all low owned guys. If you are in a small slate, you probably shouldn’t fade Westbrook, he has a a guarantee floor. But you can fade someone like Devin Booker, a rookie, who can easily fluctuate production. That’s variance. Devin Booker is not going to put up 20 fantasy points a night.

  • crazypaul

    @smutpeddlers said...

    I could think you were a provider trying to get free promotion back handedly.

    and that would make you a moron.

  • crazypaul

    Thanks for all of the replies (except for smutpeddlers who basically accused me of being the lineup provider). I made the post because i’ve never really noticed that large of a grouping of players all using the same lineup before, and it was a bit alarming given the shadow over DFS the last few months. Like I said previously, I was fully aware lineup providers existed, I was just shocked that many people used the same one.

  • jv21

    • Ranked #92

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @crazypaul said...

    I am fully aware that there are lineup providers all over social media that sell / provide lineups, however, I never realized just how popular these accounts were. Last night in the $2 SHOT on FD, there were 465 people tied for 317th place with the same exact lineup and almost all of them were single entries & not a train. This same lineup placed first in several of my 50/50’s & a local contest for Magic fans I was entered in.

    I’ve never really complained about lineup sellers before because I really didnt think they were that popular, but who ever provided that lineup yesterday seems to have a lot of customers. I think this is horrible for the “skill” aspect of DFS but I dont really think there is any way to stop it. Has anyone else ever noticed that many people having the same lineup before? Im pretty sure this was from a lineup provider because it’s unlikely that many people were on the same lineup on such a large slate.

    The lineup in question was: Deron Williams, Russell Westbrook, Wesley Matthews, James Harden, Tobias Harris, Shabazz Muhammad, Taj Gibson, Frank Kaminsky, & Demarcus Cousins and scored 346.8 FPS.

    Why worry about this? Are you always going to be concern about every pocket of players that have the same lineups? What about the other 200 players that had the sameup lineup stacking the PHI/ORL game and sucked. Do you feel bad for them? Probably not.
    Just accept it and move on. Variance is part of dfs. It’s always possible for a lineup optimizer to hit.

  • slcseas

    1. Build better lineups.
    2. Yes, but what about all the bought lineups that don’t cash???
    3. Repeat 1 and 2.

    I’m with you that this is a problem, but sadly not enough people agree. For me it’s not about whether I won or lost either since I play 95% H2Hs. At some point the media will get hold of it and spin a shit storm as some sort of cheating scandal. Until that happens, it’s probably best to just ignore and move on. It’s a weekly issue posted on RG, but people with the necessary influence have decided it’s not worth their time.

  • bucherpsu08

    This can be used in a positive way and to your advantage as well. As noted above, this particular lineup was apparently the rotowire optimal. If that’s a common one used in games you are playing then everyday you have access prior the lock of what “x” amount of lineups will look like. The same can be said for the RG optimal, DFN’s optimal, etc, etc.

  • smallANDflaccid

    @bucherpsu08 said...

    This can be used in a positive way and to your advantage as well. As noted above, this particular lineup was apparently the rotowire optimal. If that’s a common one used in games you are playing then everyday you have access prior the lock of what “x” amount of lineups will look like. The same can be said for the RG optimal, DFN’s optimal, etc, etc.

    This is what my post was getting at.

    If I wanted to play you and I said “here’s my lineup before the game starts, I am locked in, but you can change yours” – that would be a positive.

    I would love a list of all of the players seen doing this in 50/50 and H2H please.

  • Aurren

    That LU looks risky for cash. I welcome the players to keep playing these riskier LUs in cash. Sometimes the guy catches runner runner, move on to the next night dude.

  • jaf373

    Anyone who buys or copies a lineup is pretty close to pathetic. Sorry, that’s just the reality.

    I mean, really, how much lower does it get than saying, “I’m too inept to click my mouse onto 8 or 9 players, so I’ll just let someone else do the work and I’ll tag along.”

    Why bother playing? What’s the point?

  • slcseas

    @jaf373 said...

    Anyone who buys or copies a lineup is pretty close to pathetic. Sorry, that’s just the reality.

    I mean, really, how much lower does it get than saying, “I’m too inept to click my mouse onto 8 or 9 players, so I’ll just let someone else do the work and I’ll tag along.”

    Why bother playing? What’s the point?

    It’s a new way to play the lottery. People want free money.

  • smutpeddlers

    @crazypaul said...

    Thanks for all of the replies (except for smutpeddlers who basically accused me of being the lineup provider). I made the post because i’ve never really noticed that large of a grouping of players all using the same lineup before, and it was a bit alarming given the shadow over DFS the last few months. Like I said previously, I was fully aware lineup providers existed, I was just shocked that many people used the same one.

    I think you calling me a moron shows that your reading comprehension skills are lacking. I will refrain from calling you names and I accept you apology in advance.

    Like I said “if I didn’t know better”, meaning I do not think you are but it would be a crafty way to promote yourself.

    Edit: I didn’t realize that this statement can be seen as an ironic statement and that it could be taken out of context, so I choose to change my wording.

    “If I wasn’t on here as much as I am, I probably would think you are a provider promoting their site. Which i do not think. That would be a clever way to promote ones self.”

  • Drunkfatguy

    Had anyone seen an optimal lineup ever win? I use the lineups as a starting point to see projections and interject my plays into them and adjust how I see fit. Using the optimal lineup creator and using that one lineup is a recipe for failure most night in my mind!

  • jlowery73

    2012 DDC Main Event Champion

    • 2014 FAFC Finalist

    • x3

      2015 FACFC Finalist

    Sounds like a lot of you missed the “golden years” of DFS NBA a couple years back when your game watching/research paid big dividends on the edge you had. The hidden value picks used to show up at low ownership rates because they weren’t broadcasted 100 different ways on the internet ad nauseum. The game has certainly changed since then…We have to adapt and do things a bit different now but I still think that long term success is possible.

    I will agree though the overall “feel” of optimal lineups handed out is just straight up garbage but I am not sure at this point what the industry could even do about it. The edge in NBA suffers the most of all sports in this area IMO.

  • tjabchs6

    @bucherpsu08 said...

    This can be used in a positive way and to your advantage as well. As noted above, this particular lineup was apparently the rotowire optimal. If that’s a common one used in games you are playing then everyday you have access prior the lock of what “x” amount of lineups will look like. The same can be said for the RG optimal, DFN’s optimal, etc, etc.

    I’m fairly convinced Rotowire is the most shared lineup in all of NBA DFS. I had a buddy play the lineup Rotowire spit out a for few days, and each day, hundreds people used it in the big $1 tournament for FD and DK each.

    This is because Rotowire’s optimizer is the first google search result for “fanduel lineup” or “draftkings lineup”. Those are noobs making those searches and they’re dumb enough to think that clicking optimize and plugging in the lineup will make them money. It is inevitable that Rotowire will spit out a popular lineup every single day, especially with beginners trying out NBA with NFL now ending.

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