STRATEGY FORUM

Comments

  • healeymr

    I was listening to XM Fantasy channel yesterday (I think it was John Hanson and Paul Kelly) and they were discussing where the paylines were for various 50-50 contests on Fanduel. It turns out that there is some variation based on the number of entries, single or multi entry, and entry fee. So, since they had this data and were using it to optimize which 50-50’s they entered, I was wondering where I could find that data. It seams like this would be very valuable data and if it is available to some, it should be available to all.

  • BobGrinder

    Not sure there is a place you can just go look it up but they post contest links in this forum everyday so you can go check and track it yourself.

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/tuesday-s-tournament-links-889260

  • yeahthisiscuddy

    A lot of it depends on the slate too. Some days lots of runs are scored and the cash line is higher across the board.

  • healeymr

    OK, so is this another case where insiders have access to information – in this case the paylines for historical contests – that the general public does not have?

    I understand that the payline will vary week to week. In some weeks it will be very high in the NFL because the scores of the games are high. What would be interesting is know the relative paylines. For example, is the payline on multi-entry contests consistently higher or lower than single entry contests? Clearly the hosts on XM Fantasy channel had this data because they were discussing it. They also talked about their 50-50 entries, so they are playing these contests. Given the insider data problems that have surfaced and have been reported in the NYT, this looks like another case of insider trading.

  • BobGrinder

    I just told you how to get the info not to mention that it’s available to you already for every contest you enter. I’ve been tracking the contests I enter since I started playing what makes you think those hosts don’t do the same?

  • healeymr

    You provided a link to a limited data set. It didn’t have data on all of the contests.

    I am sure they do, but it also sounded to me like they had the complete set of results for all contests. Including ones they did not enter. If this is the case then there is yet another problem.

  • hbbomaha

    @healeymr said...

    You provided a link to a limited data set. It didn’t have data on all of the contests.

    I am sure they do, but it also sounded to me like they had the complete set of results for all contests. Including ones they did not enter. If this is the case then there is yet another problem.

    Calm down. It’s legitimately as simple as looking it up yourself based on the tournaments you played, or the compiled grouping of tournaments and averaging it. It’s not insider trading, it’s people using available information more efficiently and better than you.

    Seriously people, while some stuff may or may not have happened, can we stop acting like certain people who do this kind of stuff for a living aren’t putting in a lot of hours like you do at your job? Some of this is just sweat equity and some of it is just maximizing resources, but let’s settle down on this insider BS.

  • BobGrinder

    You don’t need a complete set of results a cross section of the different size contests will be accurate to within a few points I’m sure. You can get a complete set though if you really want by switching the lobby view to live contests and click away at the links but seriously you’d be wasting your time doing more than a couple of each.

  • healeymr

    I am calmly asking questions regarding the integrity of DFS. These questions do need to be asked given the events of the last few weeks. I understand that no one likes to have their integrity or the integrity of the organization or industry they work for questioned. As such I am asking these questions in a DFS friendly environment rather than in the comments section of a NYT article. I am also trying to ask them in as civilized way as possible. But that does not negate the need for the questions.

    This particular question came up because of the conversation on XM. A little more exploration indicated to me that an easy to consume complete data likely does exist. I say this because rotogrinders uses the 50-50 contest results in their player rankings. So, what is in that data set and who has access to it? Granted with the information you have provided, I can start to build a better database, but if some players have access to historical data that is not available to everyone because of their position within the industry, then that is a problem.

    I do not discount the sweet equity of some players. But I also believe that the playing field has to be level. If some people have access to data that the general public doesn’t, then there is a problem.

  • soonerdawg

    I agree with the posters who pointed out that you can look through your history and get a feel for the cash line scores in the games that you have played. I’m sure high volume players have access to pretty much every single one due to the fact that they are entering just about everything….

    I’ve been spending some time trying to go through my history and look at what’s relevant to me….Obviously, if I want to know the average cash line score of a 100 man 50/50 at the $50 level, I’d have to enter a few of these myself to have access to the scores in order to compare them to other 50/50s….But my bankroll does not support that play….I’m sure there are a few guys here who play at those levels who would be willing to share some data if you ask….

    Now if there is a way to access this data without having to buy in/pay for it, I’d be all ears…..

  • soonerdawg

    It has been a few months since I joined RG, but if I remember correctly, I had to manually provide them with my username in order for them to track my play for ranking purposes (nothing there for me to brag about, let me tell ya), so I find it a bit ridiculous to then turn around and complain about RG having access to my results since I made the conscious decision to allow them that information by providing them my username.

    I play primarily on FD, but one of the features that I like about it as I dabble with Head to head games is the ability to click on each possible opponent and see that opponent’s join date and number of games won, although I have learned that just because someone has a low win total does not guarantee success

  • healeymr

    That is a fair point regarding what RG has access to but the questions still remains, what data does RG and other sites get and how is it delivered? What data does FD, DK, etc provide? What are the internal controls at 3rd party sites regarding who can access the data?

    If there are policies in place that answer these questions and I have missed them, please direct me to them.

    Once again, I have no issue if a player is entering a lot of 50-50’s, tracking their own performance, and using that data to gain an advantage. That is fair.

  • hbbomaha

    @healeymr said...

    That is a fair point regarding what RG has access to but the questions still remains, what data does RG and other sites get and how is it delivered? What data does FD, DK, etc provide? What are the internal controls at 3rd party sites regarding who can access the data?

    If there are policies in place that answer these questions and I have missed them, please direct me to them.

    Once again, I have no issue if a player is entering a lot of 50-50’s, tracking their own performance, and using that data to gain an advantage. That is fair.

    There is a thread on this forum that talks about the data no longer being shared with RG due to new 3rd party data controls from the big sites.

    The point of what you’re driving at is as if to say, everyone’s a cheat with an unfair advantage if they’re tied to DFS and you’re all tied to DFS.
    While this is a simplified version of a nuanced opinion you may have, I’m trying to tell you is you are missing the pain points.

    The data integrity issue has always been placed at the employees of the sites, not individual players. What do they know and when.

    The “unfair advantage” of certain players has always been high volume players are perceived to get preferential treatment because they generate high rake amounts.

    If you want to explore these topics there are two fairly recent places to do so in this forum, but keep in mind these issues have been at the forefront of a lot of players within this community for a long time.

    Employee access and general data integrity see the 170+ page thread about DK tweets ownership percentages.

    Preferred treatment see Kcannon scooping… thread of about 22 pages.

  • emac

    There are several large threads with various information look for the 170 page thread and the 22 page thread if you want to see opinions, ideas and general information along with speculation.

    The two threads below will have some of the information you are looking for regarding to data.

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/draftkings-and-fanduel-are-pulling-the-rotogrinders-rankings-feed-at-least-temporarily-877553?page=1

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/rotogrinders-data-867199?page=1#reply-867424

  • mchin1027

    So I guess now if information isn’t spoon fed to you, it’s considered an unfair advantage for insiders.

  • healeymr

    @hbbomaha said...

    There is a thread on this forum that talks about the data no longer being shared with RG due to new 3rd party data controls from the big sites.

    The point of what you’re driving at is as if to say, everyone’s a cheat with an unfair advantage if they’re tied to DFS and you’re all tied to DFS.

    hbbomaha,

    Thank you for the alerting me to the thread regarding the curtailing of data sharing. I was unaware of its existence. I just took a look at the thread and it does help, but what would be very helpful is published official policies from everyone involved, DK, FD, RG, etc. about what data is shared, with who, and what the internal controls are.

    I do not think that everyone connected with DFS is a cheat, but I am increasingly suspicious of the industry. In this case it is looking like I was off base and there was not a problem. Regardless, I am glad I asked the question.

  • healeymr

    If it is spoon fed to insiders, and not to everyone, then yes it is an unfair advantage. If insiders and regular players have to go through the same data collection processes, then everything is fair. If high volume players are using the additional data they get from entering multiple contests to gain and advantage, that is fair.

    If the data is not spoon fed to me, then I am at no disadvantage as long as it is not spoon fed to others.

  • hbbomaha

    @healeymr said...

    just took a look at the thread and it does help, but what would be very helpful is published official policies from everyone involved, DK, FD, RG, etc. about what data is shared, with who, and what the internal controls are.

    I do not think that everyone connected with DFS is a cheat, but I am increasingly suspicious of the industry.

    While I again get your point, you’re basically asking for a 5 or 6 year old industry to have the robust privacy policy of the banking industry available for all. From the sounds of it, a lack of a formal 3rd party data control was somewhat criticized during the internal reviews and will be revisited after a formal policy can be put into place.

    In terms of data sharing with RG it basically went like this. You link your profile from RG to FD and DK then ok RG to have access to your FD and DK results. RG then uses that info to form rankings of player results. That’s the info sharing. It’s above board.

    Is there possibly some vulnerability built into how it got from one place to another and all that it contained? Possibly. That’s what the new policies and internal reviews are going to be about.

    Like I said, while some stuff happened that can warrant some distrust, they are very specific. Aditionally there has been effort to correct from the player pool for awhile.

    While it’s not a bad idea to have some skepticism, I would suggest it is better to ask questions first and draw conclusions later, rather than the other way around.

  • healeymr

    @hbbomaha said...

    While it’s not a bad idea to have some skepticism, I would suggest it is better to ask questions first and draw conclusions later, rather than the other way around

    That is what I was doing. Granted I did ask all of the questions from a position of assuming something was wrong rather than right. But they still were questions.

  • X Unread Thread
  • X Thread with New Replies*
  • *Jumps to your first unread reply

Subforum Index

RotoGrinders.com is the home of the daily fantasy sports community. Our content, rankings, member blogs, promotions and forum discussion all cater to the players that like to create a new fantasy team every day of the week.

If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL). Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (NJ/WV/PA/MI), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (CO), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-888-532-3500 (VA) or call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN).