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  • FDRep

    • FanDuel Representative

    Hi everyone, Nik here. We’re excited to share with you a big change to our NBA formatting for this season.

    If there’s one consistent frustration we’ve heard from NBA players, it’s the handling of inactive players. Whether it’s Pop late scratching LMA or a top-secret undisclosed mystery injury, it’s an awful experience when you’re drawing dead before the games even start. We call these events “avoidable zeroes”, and they’re the absolute worst.

    Over the summer we prototyped and tested a few different solutions and one thing became crystal clear – if we were going to make a change, we needed to make sure that the change was a fair change for everyone, and didn’t disadvantage one user segment while giving an advantage to another. I obviously can’t speak for every user, and while I’ve got a very loving (and patient!) wife at home, she’s got a limit to how much I’m glued to phone when we’re together. I’ve got friends who have kids, work nights, love the gym, and a whole host of different reasons why late swap simply doesn’t work for them. The division on the topic on the RG forums alone convinced us that it wasn’t the solution.

    Instead, we’re announcing a simple, yet powerful change: we’re dropping your lowest score. Call it best ball, call it a gimme, call it whatever you’d like. Bottom line, if a player puts up a zero, the score won’t count. Positions stay the same, scoring stays the same; we’ll simply only count your top 8. You don’t have to stay glued to your phone; you can pick that West Coast GTD with confidence and even he doesn’t go, you’re still in the running.

    Give it a try, and feel free to shoot me any feedback: nik.bonaddio@fanduel.com. Good luck!

    - NB

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @ccole00 said...

    You guys realize it’s better just to go back to late Swap. If a player has to stay up to watch their lineup before it locks so be it. Don’t play it’s called gambling for a reason.

    Yeah I’ve never understood why people complain about checking their phones for late news when people check their phones constantly anyways. Saying that you need family time or whatever isn’t a very good rebuttal, when people are checking scores on their phones anyways. Family and Gambling isn’t usually a very good combo maybe these people should prioritize lol.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @sjs1890 said...

    Family and Gambling isn’t usually a very good combo maybe these people should prioritize lol.

    Really a shallow way of thinking. I try my best not to get involved in conversations on the forum, as I represent RG, even if not intended, but really?

    I have an amazingly beautiful wife and a 14 year old son who I would do anything for. However, I am heavily involved in DFS as well, as a player as well as the lead forum moderator here. Peaking quickly at your phone to check out scores is one thing. Leaving the room after lineup lock, to go back to my office and make sure my lineups are set up optimally because of a late scratch is a whole different thing.

    When lineup lock hits, it’s family time. As I stated before somewhere in this thread, or another, at 7pm est. My VERY supportive wife and son know I walk out of my office and we either watch a show we have DVR’d, watch a movie, help with homework, etc.. but it’s family time.

    So in your world, maybe family and gambling aren’t a very good combo, but in my world it can work. However, late swap and NBA don’t mix well in my world.

  • Njsum1

    @sjs1890 said...

    Yeah I’ve never understood why people complain about checking their phones for late news when people check their phones constantly anyways. Saying that you need family time or whatever isn’t a very good rebuttal, when people are checking scores on their phones anyways. Family and Gambling isn’t usually a very good combo maybe these people should prioritize lol.

    Why do I keep seeing this argument??? Most people who are against late swap, with or without families, would not care about having to check their phones if they were to get a notification that someone was scratched and then make a 1 for 1 swap. It would take all of 1 minute.

    That is NOT why people are against late swap. They are against having to constantly redo ENTIRE lineups as news breaks to reoptimize them just so they aren’t dead money. You do realize that’s what people do in full late swap NBA. If someone entered 20 lineups, they’ll probably enter 10 lineups with the rosters half filled out and then optimize the rest of the lineups as late news breaks. It’s literally staying glued to your screen, making and remaking lineups all night long, if you want to compete. If you want to lose, then you don’t have to do that. THAT is what people who have families, or other obligations, or people who simply have something else they’d rather be doing are against.

    So please stop with the “I can’t see why people can’t check their phone” argument. That is not a major concern for the vast majority of people who are anti late swap.

  • Puma103185

    @sjs1890 said...

    Yeah I’ve never understood why people complain about checking their phones for late news when people check their phones constantly anyways. Saying that you need family time or whatever isn’t a very good rebuttal, when people are checking scores on their phones anyways. Family and Gambling isn’t usually a very good combo maybe these people should prioritize lol.

    This isn’t difficult to understand. There is a large percentage including me that just wouldn’t play if they had late swap. I don’t have time to check in all night.

    If Fan Duel moved to late swap I would move my action to a different site. Once I start playing on a different site I usually stay there unless there is some reason I have in particular to come back. By going to late swap for basketball it would probably result in me not playing basketball on Fan duel and then not playing baseball on their site either because I would have moved by bankroll.

  • gaelicgirl

    @Njsum1 said...

    That is NOT why people are against late swap. They are against having to constantly redo ENTIRE lineups as news breaks to reoptimize them just so they aren’t dead money. You do realize that’s what people do in full late swap NBA. If someone entered 20 lineups, they’ll probably enter 10 lineups with the rosters half filled out and then optimize the rest of the lineups as late news breaks. It’s literally staying glued to your screen, making and remaking lineups all night long, if you want to compete. If you want to lose, then you don’t have to do that. THAT is what people who have families, or other obligations, or people who simply have something they’d rather be doing are against.

  • noddy

    @sjs1890 said...

    Yeah I’ve never understood why people complain about checking their phones for late news when people check their phones constantly anyways. Saying that you need family time or whatever isn’t a very good rebuttal, when people are checking scores on their phones anyways. Family and Gambling isn’t usually a very good combo maybe these people should prioritize lol.

    This is just amazing to me that someone would even post this. Unreal.

  • tonytone1908

    @xbrett82 said...

    This is the worst idea I’ve ever heard. Think about this scenario. One person scores 400 and their lowest scorer scores 30 points. Another person scores 395 and their lowest scorer scores 20 points. In this scenario, the 395 scorer WINS 375-370.

    How on Earth is that remotely fair? Just keep it as it’s been. Yeah, once or twice a year a game will get cancelled or a late scratch will ruin your late, but that’s the risk you take rostering a player who hasn’t been declared active and playing. This completely flips the game on its ear, and the person who scores the most points with their 9 eligible players will not always win the tournament. It’s unbelievably stupid.

    I think the chances of this happening are extremely rare and if someone else is that close to you at 400 pts you probably have the same 8 players at the top unless 20 different guys went off for 8x that night.

  • Puma103185

    The people that want late swap would be the same people complaining about the shrinking size of GPPs on Fan Duel two weeks into the season when those that can’t do late swap move on to another site.

    You can tell the people that don’t have a wife and/or kids by how asinine their posts are about how easy it is to monitor all night.

    Fan Duel going to a late swap would be in Draft Kings best interest. These sites need to be as inclusive as possible because retention of players is becoming such an important issue for them because there is nowhere near as much growth of new players.

  • GaryPoupon

    @FDRep said...

    Negative feedback is probably even more valuable to us than positive. I get enough people kissing my butt, sending me resumes that in a masochistic way it’s sometimes good to know where people have suggestions and ideas.

    With that said, RG isn’t a representative population of the overall DFS userbase, nor is it a simulacrum of the full gamut of responses, for the same reason very people write a Yelp review when they’re happy.

    - NB

    The best feedback you can get is by how many people are actively playing on Fanduel, which can be represented by the turnouts in tournaments. Fanduel has done an AWESOME job the past 2 seasons keeping their core product relatively the same. As a result, Fanduel’s guarantees have continued to rise in an amazing way! Look at what the guarantees were 2 years ago compared to what they are most recently please.

    Therefore as long as the users are active, not hearing anything back at all is often the best feedback because it means the users are happy with the current product. I know this is difficult for Fanduel who has to constantly reply to these complainers but “if it is not broke, do not fix it”. Not only is the Fanduel NBA product not broken, but it’s been growing at a spectacular rate the past two seasons and it kills me to see a change like this particularly with Draftkings reverting back to Late Swap which many users such as myself are not a fan of.

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    ^
    That first paragraph is true?
    As a smaller stakes player the size and structures of the GPP’s are awful compared to what they were a few years ago. But that’s representative of my experience as a player, so I really am unsure of thats not the case at other levels.

    Because from what I’ve seen, it seems like they’ve cut from the ends trying to funnel play to a mid-level price point that allows that one big guarantee each night, but it’s come at the expense of other areas.
    I mean there was a time not too long ago there’s be a 150k+ $1 game every night.

  • Forest29

    @captainwacky said...

    I don’t know why I feel compelled to keep bringing this up… but you’re not playing against Fanduel, you’re playing against other people. So they changed the formatting, and it affects everyone the same way, which shouldn’t matter if you believe you’re skilled enough to beat other people. This is the same story as pricing discrepancies, soft pricing, good or bad slates, etc. The goal is to beat other humans with the same sets of rules that you have, so I don’t get why people panic over formatting change.

    This.

  • xbrett82

    • Ranked #82

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @tonytone1908 said...

    I think the chances of this happening are extremely rare and if someone else is that close to you at 400 pts you probably have the same 8 players at the top unless 20 different guys went off for 8x that night.

    This isn’t true — at all. I play NBA DFS religiously, and assuming it’s a 6+ game slate, it’s likely you can achieve a relatively similar score with only 3-4 players overlapping, if that. This scenario is absolutely not outside of the realm of possibility on any given night. And the fact that I now have to factor this into the equation when making lineups is plain frustrating.

    Sure, you can argue that there’s a new competitive advantage to this method as well, but it’s not worth it in the long run for me. Assuming this sticks, you can be sure, I will be infinitely more confident playing a boom or bust minimum salary player on any given night knowing that, when he probably busts, it will not factor into my score. Still, the whole concept is bogus, and they clearly didn’t think through all the different ways this might play out to a good NBA DFS players disadvantage.

    I would say this gives a greater advantage to all the fish out there. The people who don’t bother doing their research before each slate. Before, they would need to pick 9 players seemingly randomly out of a hat in order to win, now it’s 8.

  • mambaland

    @noddy said...

    This is just amazing to me that someone would even post this. Unreal.

    i play every day and i hate late swap..i want my work to be done by lock..not till after bed time…hell i am asleep by time most games go off

  • mambaland

    @bhdevault said...

    When lineup lock hits, it’s family time. As I stated before somewhere in this thread, or another, at 7pm est. My VERY supportive wife and son know I walk out of my office and we either watch a show we have DVR’d, watch a movie, help with homework, etc.. but it’s family time.

    sounds like me..other than nfl i hardly watch any of the games and i play daily and do ok…i play hockey every night and you could not pay me to watch a game….besides with nba etc who can watch 12 games a night…the redzone is the best way to do dfs and its an afternoon event

  • dolphinkick182

    @Njsum1 said...

    Why do I keep seeing this argument??? Most people who are against late swap, with or without families, would not care about having to check their phones if they were to get a notification that someone was scratched and then make a 1 for 1 swap. It would take all of 1 minute.

    That is NOT why people are against late swap. They are against having to constantly redo ENTIRE lineups as news breaks to reoptimize them just so they aren’t dead money. You do realize that’s what people do in full late swap NBA. If someone entered 20 lineups, they’ll probably enter 10 lineups with the rosters half filled out and then optimize the rest of the lineups as late news breaks. It’s literally staying glued to your screen, making and remaking lineups all night long, if you want to compete. If you want to lose, then you don’t have to do that. THAT is what people who have families, or other obligations, or people who simply have something else they’d rather be doing are against.

    So please stop with the “I can’t see why people can’t check their phone” argument. That is not a major concern for the vast majority of people who are anti late swap.

    Then why do they use the FAMILY time argument? I get what you’re saying but yet it also benefits the player that play 1 LU or 10 (me). I just don’t see why someone has a family time restriction limits what I can do. Also, the “casual player” term ended 2-3 years ago. Just because you don’t spend 5k a night doesn’t mean you aren’t playing to win. The competition is stiff now, and to say that ANYBODY that is laying any kind of money and not checking to be sure that their player is playing is just ridiculous. Just stop with it.

  • Njsum1

    @dolphinkick182 said...

    Then why do they use the FAMILY time argument? I get what you’re saying but yet it also benefits the player that play 1 LU or 10 (me). I just don’t see why someone has a family time restriction limits what I can do. Also, the “casual player” term ended 2-3 years ago. Just because you don’t spend 5k a night doesn’t mean you aren’t playing to win. The competition is stiff now, and to say that ANYBODY that is laying any kind of money and not checking to be sure that their player is playing is just ridiculous. Just stop with it.

    I don’t know what you responded to, yet it wasn’t to I wrote. I agreed that anyone has time to check if a player is playing and make a simple 1 v 1 swap. I said that some people do not have time, nor the inclination, family or not, to be reoptimizing lineups all night to compete. As I wrote, reoptimzing is not simply swapping a scratch for another player.

    Have you ever played full late swap NBA with multiple lineups? If you’re only using it to simply swap out a late scratch, you’re at a major disadvantage. If you enjoy redoing entire lineups all night, making half filled lineups with late game players so you can then adjust them for news up until 10pm est, just so you’ll be on a level playing field, then have at it, cause that’s what the competition will be doing. It’s just not for me. That’s why most people are against late swap,and that’s where the “family time” argument comes from, not cause they don’t want to check to see if their players are playing and making simple 1 for 1 swaps.

    Edit: it seems you like that style of play, since you referenced not being “limited.” Yet most people against late swap just don’t want to be messing with lineups after lock, it’s annoying, IMO. It also kinda throws a lot of research out the window since it becomes a who can react to news and reoptimize their lineups quicker game, rather than a trying to find the best plays game. For me when lock comes, I just want to follow my already made teams and see how they do, I don’t want to adjust them anymore. My argument is moot anyway cause DK is late swap, so it is what it is, I can either play or not.

  • Macspad70

    Is this starting next Tuesday or did it start already? I did not see it in the rules for the season opener…

  • ccole00

    Don’t play fantasy if u don’t like changing ur lineup.

  • mtdurham

    @ccole00 said...

    You guys realize it’s better just to go back to late Swap. If a player has to stay up to watch their lineup before it locks so be it. Don’t play it’s called gambling for a reason.

    but that’s just it…the website who makes money off people playing doesnt like your “dont play” stance….

    late swap is terrible and makes people “not play” (i paraphrased)

  • mtdurham

    @sjs1890 said...

    Yeah I’ve never understood why people complain about checking their phones for late news

    because being on your phone isnt enough . You absolutely have to be GLUED to your computer or youll just get murdered during NBA late swap

  • mtdurham

    @Puma103185 said...

    You can tell the people that don’t have a wife and/or kids by how asinine their posts are about how easy it is to monitor all night.

    I just want to re-emphasize that even people without a wife and kids do not want this.

    I promise you that I do not WANT your money hard enough to learn to become a computer programmer.

    Lets rename “late swap” what it is… stupid….borderline cheating… and an idiotic decision by draftkings.

  • mtdurham

    @xbrett82 said...

    This isn’t true — at all. I play NBA DFS religiously, and assuming it’s a 6+ game slate, it’s likely you can achieve a relatively similar score with only 3-4 players overlapping, if that. This scenario is absolutely not outside of the realm of possibility on any given night. And the fact that I now have to factor this into the equation when making lineups is plain frustrating.

    Sure, you can argue that there’s a new competitive advantage to this method as well, but it’s not worth it in the long run for me. Assuming this sticks, you can be sure, I will be infinitely more confident playing a boom or bust minimum salary player on any given night knowing that, when he probably busts, it will not factor into my score. Still, the whole concept is bogus, and they clearly didn’t think through all the different ways this might play out to a good NBA DFS players disadvantage.

    I would say this gives a greater advantage to all the fish out there. The people who don’t bother doing their research before each slate. Before, they would need to pick 9 players seemingly randomly out of a hat in order to win, now it’s 8.

    yeah “extremely rare” was a really strange word choice…. i’d be willing to bet it happens close to 100% of the time… obviously at least 98% or so…. that isn’t “extremely rare” by any means

  • mtdurham

    @xbrett82 said...

    Before, they would need to pick 9 players seemingly randomly out of a hat in order to win, now it’s 8.

    not only is it one less player to need to choose but it’s with more salary to do so…

    and like i was saying to play/fade a guy is no longer even really a decision…you just play him… if he busts you get to drop him anyway so why try to be a hero?

  • mtdurham

    @dolphinkick182 said...

    The competition is stiff now, and to say that ANYBODY that is laying any kind of money and not checking to be sure that their player is playing is just ridiculous. Just stop with it.

    Dude you have got to be trolling at this point… why would we bother responding if you cant comprehend what anyone is saying?

  • noddy

    @bhdevault said...

    Really a shallow way of thinking. I try my best not to get involved in conversations on the forum, as I represent RG, even if not intended, but really?

    I have an amazingly beautiful wife and a 14 year old son who I would do anything for. However, I am heavily involved in DFS as well, as a player as well as the lead forum moderator here. Peaking quickly at your phone to check out scores is one thing. Leaving the room after lineup lock, to go back to my office and make sure my lineups are set up optimally because of a late scratch is a whole different thing.

    When lineup lock hits, it’s family time. As I stated before somewhere in this thread, or another, at 7pm est. My VERY supportive wife and son know I walk out of my office and we either watch a show we have DVR’d, watch a movie, help with homework, etc.. but it’s family time.

    So in your world, maybe family and gambling aren’t a very good combo, but in my world it can work. However, late swap and NBA don’t mix well in my world.

    Hey bhdevault. Now that both dk and fd have changed and they are different which site do you prefer?

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