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  • FDRep

    • FanDuel Representative

    Hi everyone, Nik here. We’re excited to share with you a big change to our NBA formatting for this season.

    If there’s one consistent frustration we’ve heard from NBA players, it’s the handling of inactive players. Whether it’s Pop late scratching LMA or a top-secret undisclosed mystery injury, it’s an awful experience when you’re drawing dead before the games even start. We call these events “avoidable zeroes”, and they’re the absolute worst.

    Over the summer we prototyped and tested a few different solutions and one thing became crystal clear – if we were going to make a change, we needed to make sure that the change was a fair change for everyone, and didn’t disadvantage one user segment while giving an advantage to another. I obviously can’t speak for every user, and while I’ve got a very loving (and patient!) wife at home, she’s got a limit to how much I’m glued to phone when we’re together. I’ve got friends who have kids, work nights, love the gym, and a whole host of different reasons why late swap simply doesn’t work for them. The division on the topic on the RG forums alone convinced us that it wasn’t the solution.

    Instead, we’re announcing a simple, yet powerful change: we’re dropping your lowest score. Call it best ball, call it a gimme, call it whatever you’d like. Bottom line, if a player puts up a zero, the score won’t count. Positions stay the same, scoring stays the same; we’ll simply only count your top 8. You don’t have to stay glued to your phone; you can pick that West Coast GTD with confidence and even he doesn’t go, you’re still in the running.

    Give it a try, and feel free to shoot me any feedback: nik.bonaddio@fanduel.com. Good luck!

    - NB

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @CUTiger81 said...

    I’ve always been against late swap but at the end of the day, it’s what people want and if they don’t realize that it’s bad for them then that’s not really DK/FD’s issue. I’m softening on the late swap issue though because it’s just so damn easy to make swaps. Notification pops up on my phone “”(player-popup #jeff-teague)Jeff Teague”:/players/jeff-teague-1005 has been ruled out” and I can process who that stands to benefit in about 2 minutes. The people who aren’t willing to spend the 2 minutes it takes to make that swap are the people who are going to complain if there’s no late swap because they “got screwed” and are going to complain if there is late swap because “the sites only cater to the high stakes players.” The people who really enjoy DFS and will still be playing a year or two from now will adjust regardless of the setup.

    Totally missing the point. The very successful players react MUCH more to “”(player-popup #jeff-teague)Jeff Teague”:/players/jeff-teague-1005 has been ruled out” by re-adjusting their projections for both teams and possibly re-running an optimizer for ALL their teams.

    Does that happen each and every time? Maybe not, but to take FULL advantage of late swap, and strengthen your expected value for the slate, there is much more to just swapping out a player for another and that’s it. Not to mention, the sharp players are making adjustments on the fly anyhow to lineups that may be dead while most casuals just sit on their lineups they originally created.

    That’s the part the ‘casual’ player does not get. If you are not using late swap almost nightly, regardless of any late scratches, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

  • CUTiger81

    @bhdevault said...

    Totally missing the point. The very successful players react MUCH more to “”(player-popup #jeff-teague)Jeff Teague”:/players/jeff-teague-1005 has been ruled out” by re-adjusting their projections for both teams and possibly re-running an optimizer for ALL their teams.

    Does that happen each and every time? Maybe not, but to take FULL advantage of late swap, and strengthen your expected value for the slate, there is much more to just swapping out a player for another and that’s it. Not to mention, the sharp players are making adjustments on the fly anyhow to lineups that may be dead while most casuals just sit on their lineups they originally created.

    That’s the part the ‘casual’ player does not get. If you are not using late swap almost nightly, regardless of any late scratches, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

    I understand that….the point is that the casual player who complains about late swap doesn’t understand it, and never will understand it so trying to appease them is pointless. You tell them “late swap is bad for you” and they aren’t going to understand why. You take away late swap to benefit them and they’re going to complain when a guy gets late scratched. I say just give them what they ask for (late swap) and however much the casual player chooses to use it is up to them.

    And to my point about swapping from late news only – is the casual player giving up equity to the high stakes player by only using late swap for late news? Of course. But just by having the notifications and reacting to the news you’re doing more than 50% of the field is doing. I think it’s less than 10% of the field that even re-runs their projections at any point after lock. Take last night for instance….I re-ran my projections after Teague was for sure out and got Rose and Tyus Jones in 100% of my optimals. Tyus was 7% owned in the $10 single entry double up, Rose was 63%. That’s a really large portion of the field not even bothering to adjust.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @CUTiger81 said...

    I understand that….the point is that the casual player who complains about late swap doesn’t understand it, and never will understand it so trying to appease them is pointless. You tell them “late swap is bad for you” and they aren’t going to understand why. You take away late swap to benefit them and they’re going to complain when a guy gets late scratched. I say just give them what they ask for (late swap) and however much the casual player chooses to use it is up to them.

    And to my point about swapping from late news only – is the casual player giving up equity to the high stakes player by only using late swap for late news? Of course. But just by having the notifications and reacting to the news you’re doing more than 50% of the field is doing. I think it’s less than 10% of the field that even re-runs their projections at any point after lock. Take last night for instance….I re-ran my projections after Teague was for sure out and got Rose and Tyus Jones in 100% of my optimals. Tyus was 7% owned in the $10 single entry double up, Rose was 63%. That’s a really large portion of the field not even bothering to adjust.

    Good post, you nailed it.

  • ClevelandPhil

    • 207

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #29

      RG Tiered Ranking

    I play nearly all of my NBA volume on Fanduel because I don’t have to deal with late swap and I can be done with everything at 7 PM. I have no interest in adjusting all of my lineups as news breaks past 7 pm. Its much easier for a casual player to MME on Fanduel for NBA without having to worry about making a large amount of swaps throughout the night. Much less of a time commitment. Its easy with 1-10 lineups to do the late swap, I get that, and if I was playing just a few lineups on a given night either site would be fine (DK or Fanduel). I enjoy the strategy the dropped score brings to the table on Fanduel, and that I can be done at lock with lineups and just enjoy watching the games unfold. I hope that both options stay on the table for the future and that Fanduel doesn’t change their product to be late swap.

    I think many users are overstating that the “masses” want late swap. Many don’t. I certainly don’t. I think people enjoy complaining.

    Keep the dropped score format and no late swap. It’s great.

  • ivymoose

    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    There’s also turbo slates on each site that allow you to play games where you’ll know the lineups at lock.

    I always dismissed turbo slates because I didn’t like to play small slates. Thanks to this post, I thought about it and started playing them on big nights where you get 3 or 4 games that lock at the same time. I am enjoying NBA DFS again.

  • cdenny99

    Can we switch back already? This sucks

  • moped_jones

    @ClevelandPhil said...

    I think many users are overstating that the “masses” want late swap. Many don’t. I certainly don’t. I think people enjoy complaining.

    It’s funny b/c I see more people complaining that this “drop low score” thing sucks than I do people for it.

    Easy way to find out, FD needs to run contests that offer both (same size, same prizes) and see which ones people go for the most. Let the market decide.

  • bigez952

    @moped_jones said...

    It’s funny b/c I see more people complaining that this “drop low score” thing sucks than I do people for it.

    That doesn’t mean much. People against something always have the loudest voice over people that are really happy with something.

    They also don’t need to run 2 contests side by side as that would tell them nothing and they would have to do it for weeks straight to really get meaningful data. They already have the data they need to know if the change is a benefit or harm to their business model by comparting this years numbers to last year. If play is way down I would expect they do something to address that next season.

  • moped_jones

    @bigez952 said...

    They also don’t need to run 2 contests side by side as that would tell them nothing and they would have to do it for weeks straight to really get meaningful data.

    I don’t know, I would think having both options side by side would tell you a lot actually.

    And of course they would have to do it for several weeks, lol. I’m not sure how you go the impression I meant to do it just for one slate.

  • Njsum1

    @moped_jones said...

    I don’t know, I would think having both options side by side would tell you a lot actually.

    And of course they would have to do it for several weeks, lol. I’m not sure how you go the impression I meant to do it just for one slate.

    Either way, it’s not a good idea….imo. Both tourneys run the risk of not filling, and it might confuse some people. Right now with the drop the lowest score their GPPs are filling, so regardless if the majority of people like it or not, they’re unlikely to change it mid season.

    I’m guessing that a mid season change might annoy some of their more serious/high volume players who have already made adjustments to the new format. They will likely evaluate the format at the end of the season, and if you’re right, that the majority of people don’t like the format, they will likely change it back next season. If they determine that the majority of people do like it, it will probably stay as is.

  • moped_jones

    @Njsum1 said...

    Either way, it’s not a good idea….imo.

    I politely and respectfully disagree.

    They can cut the size of the contests in half (if you are worried about them not filling) and actually get an answer to what games people like better. This really isn’t as complicated as you people are making it out to be.

  • Dfsloser247

    They don’t listen to the people that put small amounts of money in their pockets. Only the high volume players.
    But you cant really blame them, if you want to be heard you need to play massive amounts daily. That 12 to 15 cents per dollar played adds up.

  • bigez952

    @moped_jones said...

    I politely and respectfully disagree.

    They can cut the size of the contests in half (if you are worried about them not filling) and actually get an answer to what games people like better. This really isn’t as complicated as you people are making it out to be.

    This would be a terrible idea for their business as what is actually the #1 most important thing to users is the prize pool and what the top prize is. So if they spent weeks splitting action over an issue a majority of users don’t care about to make smaller prize pools and payouts they would only hurt themselves.

    I agree it isn’t that complicated and they have years worth of data of the old system to compare side by side to this years data so they have no need to run experiments that are overall harmful to their bottom line. At the end of this year they will have all the data they need to make an educated decision if this change helped or harmed their bottom line and they will adjust their plans for the 2019-2020 season accordingly.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Dfsloser247 said...

    They don’t listen to the people that put small amounts of money in their pockets. Only the high volume players.
    But you cant really blame them, if you want to be heard you need to play massive amounts daily. That 12 to 15 cents per dollar played adds up.

    Not true. Plenty of high volume players have voiced their discontent with the new FD system.

    This system was put in place more for the casual player, the ones that would lose their mind when they received a zero for a late scratch.

  • dolphinkick182

    @bhdevault said...

    This system was put in place more for the casual player

    I’ve seen you make reference to this many times, so I’m curious. What do you consider a “casual player” to be?

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @dolphinkick182 said...

    I’ve seen you make reference to this many times, so I’m curious. What do you consider a “casual player” to be?

    Someone who builds lineups from their phone and doesn’t use any information, a typical guy you run into that has no idea what RG even is, etc.. Just a casual player that throws his money into big GPP’s hoping to hit.

    I’ve met many guys like that. A poker league I was in last year was filled with them, they would go berzerk if a guy late scratched and they had him.

    While I’m sure there is more to it, that’s the type of player that would then go nuts on a late scratch and email/tweet the non-late swap sites.

    (I hope I’m explaining that correctly, like the words aren’t coming out like I mean them too).

  • cdenny99

    I tried Fantasy Draft instead yesterday. It was great—no late swap and no gimmicks.

  • moped_jones

    @bigez952 said...

    This would be a terrible idea for their business as what is actually the #1 most important thing to users is the prize pool and what the top prize is. So if they spent weeks splitting action over an issue a majority of users don’t care about to make smaller prize pools and payouts they would only hurt themselves.

    I agree it isn’t that complicated and they have years worth of data of the old system to compare side by side to this years data so they have no need to run experiments that are overall harmful to their bottom line. At the end of this year they will have all the data they need to make an educated decision if this change helped or harmed their bottom line and they will adjust their plans for the 2019-2020 season accordingly.

    People will play whatever games are available. If you have both people will pick one the one they like best. If the old data is only for one option it’s not really relevant to this. Old data is like saying the The Golden State Warriors are better than the 1996-97 Bulls. different years. Different variables. No way to make them go head to head and find out. However, FD can make late swap & low score drop go head to head and actually see which one people like best. Again, not complicated.

    I just hate that an entire season was wasted on this crap. Been a crappy year and I was really looking forward to NBA DFS this year and FD ruined it with one of the most unnecessary changes I have ever seen.

    Either have late swap or don’t. None of this “kind of” crap.

  • dolphinkick182

    @bhdevault said...

    Someone who builds lineups from their phone and doesn’t use any information, a typical guy you run into that has no idea what RG even is, etc.. Just a casual player that throws his money into big GPP’s hoping to hit.

    I’ve met many guys like that. A poker league I was in last year was filled with them, they would go berzerk if a guy late scratched and they had him.

    While I’m sure there is more to it, that’s the type of player that would then go nuts on a late scratch and email/tweet the non-late swap sites.

    (I hope I’m explaining that correctly, like the words aren’t coming out like I mean them too).

    Well I’m glad to finally get your take! Your poker buddies just throwing in LU’s between hands last year.
    Fact is, casual players are far and few between. If not for the blowback DK & FD got from the ad campaign costing them hundreds of millions in ads,state licensing fees , and ALOT of unwanted attention, the lost revenue may have prevented them from increasing the rake and we may have an easier time cashing.
    Fact is, cashing in DFS has gotten tougher, and it’s not cause your poker buddies have gotten better. It’s because those people are few and far between. They put a few bucks in and stopped. The people I know don’t just look at FD game logs, pick a team, then set it and forget it. They put in the time to win.
    NBA forums are full of people who spend less than $100 a day on DFS. Yet put in a lot of hours discussing scenarios and adjust LU’s. I’d venture a guess, looking at profiles, that they spend less than $50 a day.
    Don’t get me wrong, there are still a some people like your poker buddies that throw a LU or 2 in and hope they win big. But in reality, the case made for the people against late swap is about 4 years old. Most of the people who play any amount of money will watch and adjust.
    So the argument about “sharks” adjusting max entries is moot. “Casuals” as most people know them no longer exist. I play knowing I have to beat the sharks. It’s how they make their living and I accept that. But if I can get 1 or 2 in between, and hit a GPP or get up in the money on any given slate, then my 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, making steel for the masses is worth it.

    I have never bought the argument about “SHARKS” adjusting LU’s with late swap based on their current standings in a tournament. Because I believe most people who play real money will do exactly the same. For sure there are a lot of people who might throw in $5 and hope for the best, but today people are playing to win. Times change and so must the people offering the venue.

  • Njsum1

    @dolphinkick182 said...

    I have never bought the argument about “SHARKS” adjusting LU’s with late swap based on their current standings in a tournament. Because I believe most people who play real money will do exactly the same. For sure there are a lot of people who might throw in $5 and hope for the best, but today people are playing to win. Times change and so must the people offering the venue

    The fact the late swap benefits the sharks is just 1 reason SOME people don’t want late swap for NBA, yet it’s not the main reason, not for me, and it never was. The main reason, and a reason some “sharks” who have spoken out against late swap on this thread and others cited is because it’s irritating. No one want to be following news all night. And that’s what it is, if you want to have time to think through your swaps provided they’re available.

    Personally, this NBA season has been the least enjoyable one in years. Believe it or not some people still play for enjoyment, and to win. Every frickin 15 minutes, I have to check which guys are in, which are out, start swapping guys in and out. It’s rarely just a 1 for 1 swap…and that’s mainly due to price. If I don’t have open positions and the requisite salary to make 2 for 2, or 3 for 3 swaps, I’m often left replacing an 8k scratch with a 5 to 6k player cause that’s all that’s left to play at that position that fits the salary.

    Its annoying and time consuming. I went from making 20 lineups per night last season to a handful this season, on late swap sites. It was nice that when first tip came, that was it, lineups were locked and I could go about my night. Everyone was on equal footing. We all had the news up until lock, made our plays, did our research, and took whatever risks we deemed appropriate. And we were done. Now it’s 3 and half more hours of checking BBM…yay..good times 😁👎🏻

  • drewcrawford03

    • 290

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2019 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Has anyone pointed out the obvious fact that FD is getting WAY less player volume this year? When I WAS playing, I was hardly getting any action, every night. I don’t have numbers here, but can anyone agree they are seeing the same thing? I don’t want to hear “it’s still NFL season”, last year I got double the action in Nov and Dec than what I got this year. If this is indeed true, hard to argue that its due to this new format.

  • gaelicgirl

    Hey, Nik…I doubt that you come here any more, but just wanted to leave a message in case you do.
    Hope you guys at FD are enjoying watching Yahoo eat your lunch because of this horrible format change.
    I’m just a small time player, but over the years I’ve spent thousands of dollars on FD because I didn’t want to play the late swap format on DK. After losing the last of this season’s deposit for NBA a few days ago, I will not be redepositing. I wasn’t able to win anything on NBA compared to previous years because of your ridiculous “drop the lowest score” format, so I recently tried Yahoo for the first time.
    Their prizes are smaller, and they do have late swap, but in my first three days of playing there I doubled my initial deposit because the scores for all of the players I picked were counted, and I didn’t even use the late swap feature. I might never have a big win there like I did on FD a few times, but having regular small wins beats losing almost every night.

  • mambaland

    disagree yahoo is terrible and i am not a fan of FD but much better than yahoo….i hate late swap

  • ttucowboy84

    • 400

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #50

      RG Tiered Ranking

    When DK switched NBA back to late swap, I thought well shit. I hadn’t played on FD since they left TX. Decided to give them another chance and I’m glad I did. The low score drop isn’t perfect, but beats the hell out of late swap.

    For those that dont like it, why not just play on DK or Yahoo? There are options out there. Heck, I’ve played a couple of DK contests when the slates aren’t enormous.

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