INDUSTRY FORUM

Comments

  • FDRep

    • FanDuel Representative

    Hi everyone, Nik here. We’re excited to share with you a big change to our NBA formatting for this season.

    If there’s one consistent frustration we’ve heard from NBA players, it’s the handling of inactive players. Whether it’s Pop late scratching LMA or a top-secret undisclosed mystery injury, it’s an awful experience when you’re drawing dead before the games even start. We call these events “avoidable zeroes”, and they’re the absolute worst.

    Over the summer we prototyped and tested a few different solutions and one thing became crystal clear – if we were going to make a change, we needed to make sure that the change was a fair change for everyone, and didn’t disadvantage one user segment while giving an advantage to another. I obviously can’t speak for every user, and while I’ve got a very loving (and patient!) wife at home, she’s got a limit to how much I’m glued to phone when we’re together. I’ve got friends who have kids, work nights, love the gym, and a whole host of different reasons why late swap simply doesn’t work for them. The division on the topic on the RG forums alone convinced us that it wasn’t the solution.

    Instead, we’re announcing a simple, yet powerful change: we’re dropping your lowest score. Call it best ball, call it a gimme, call it whatever you’d like. Bottom line, if a player puts up a zero, the score won’t count. Positions stay the same, scoring stays the same; we’ll simply only count your top 8. You don’t have to stay glued to your phone; you can pick that West Coast GTD with confidence and even he doesn’t go, you’re still in the running.

    Give it a try, and feel free to shoot me any feedback: nik.bonaddio@fanduel.com. Good luck!

    - NB

  • gaelicgirl

    @FDRep said...

    The order of operations there isn’t correct. In your scenario, the scoreboard wouldn’t show 300 and 295. It’d show 281 and 280.

    If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re worried that you’d be on top all night and then all of a sudden we’d drop the lowest scores of everyone and the leaderboard would go haywire. That’s not the case.

    It doesn’t matter if you’re simply not counting the lowest score throughout the game or dropping the lowest score at the end of the game. The person with the higher “lowest score” will lose more points than the person with the lower “lowest score.” You’re disincentivizing people from trying to roster the highest scoring players at each position, and incentivizing them to roster a “throwaway” pick.

  • dolphinkick182

    Does this take affect at the start of the regular season or today?

    Update** via email, the FD rep said this will start at the beginning of the regular season.

  • monarch

    On full slates, dont pay for C. Just pick the lowest price option and load up at another position.

  • Ace15

    If you think about it late scratches that move the needle in a tourney are typically mid-high priced guys. Lets say AD gets scratched, greeat! Take the 8 other guys scores…. but your lineup will now have a dramatically lower score output because AD took up so much salary. Basically new format gives you a slightly better chance to min cash in a night where dude gets scratched, but chances of you winning a GPP are pretty slim. Hmm i guess it’s whatever, at the end of the day you still need the most optimal lineup to win this just allows more room for error i guess.

  • kbsktbll88

    @FDRep said...

    I think people will do this up until the time in which they punt the position AND a player gets scratched late.

    Either way, it was important for us to give the agency to the player to carve out a strategy and risk tolerance that works for them. But not as important as making sure that you’re not at a disadvantage because you work nights, or because you want to hang out with your kids at 7:30pm.

    - NB

    Yeah but the odds of punting a position and getting another late scratch are very very low. People like to complain about late scratches a lot, but they actually don’t happen that often. It just sucks when you get that 0.

    So I don’t think it will stop people from doing what everyone else is saying because it will work much more often than not. People will just start stacking stars every night with the additional salary. Maybe one way to solve it is to change the pricing structure by raising the minimum salary and maximum? I’m not sure.

    Either way, I applaud you guys for trying something different and not just reverting back to late swap which only benefits the sharks. I’m not sure I like the current idea, but I definitely don’t like late swap lol

  • Ace15

    @noddy said...

    Um it occurs a lot and there are many times it doesn’t occur but you don’t know that at lock. Now you can take a chance with a player that is questionable in the late game. Great job FD

    How many times does it occur that swings a whole slate? I can only think of a couple times it happening last year. Feel like this format helps just people min cash (win..so they come back) instead of losing everything which is fine.

  • dolphinkick182

    It will help with my uncanny ability to pick the player that runs to the locker room holding his wrist 2 minutes into the game.

  • gje627

    Completely agree that this will change contest strategy (i.e. including a minimum priced punt that likely won’t even play, or dress for that matter)….

    But as a high-volume player, I absolutely love this change !!!

    Last year I pretty much moved all my NBA action to DK….

    Now, it looks like I’ll be playing more FD this season….

    Very nice FD !!!

  • noddy

    @dolphinkick182 said...

    It will help with my uncanny ability to pick the player that runs to the locker room holding his wrist 2 minutes into the game.

    Hahaha

  • lineupofpeace

    Say your line up is made up of the following:

    1. 10k player
    2. 8k player
    3. 8k player
    4. 7k player
    5. 6k player
    6. 6k player
    7. 6k player
    8. 6k player
    9. 5k player

    Most people will build a lineup similar to this where you have 1 punt play, hoping the 5k player gets dropped. This leaves you with an average cost among the other 8 spots of ~7k. (55/8).

    However, if your 8k player gets late scratched, you end up with an average cost in your other spots of only ~6.5k (52/8). You’re essentially playing with a salary cap that’s 3k lower than everyone else, instead of taking the zero.

    Your chances of winning are still awful when you have a late scratch in your lineup, but this completely changes the strategy on every other night.

    Does anyone think this is the best way to address late scratches?

  • Ace15

    If you think about it late scratches that move the needle in a tourney are typically mid-high priced guys. Lets say AD gets scratched, greeat! Take the 8 other guys scores…. but your lineup will now have a dramatically lower score output because AD took up so much salary. Basically new format gives you a slightly better chance to min cash in a night where dude gets scratched, but chances of you winning a GPP are pretty slim. Hmm i guess it’s whatever, at the end of the day you still need the most optimal lineup to win this just allows more room for error i guess.

  • noddy

    @gje627 said...

    Completely agree that this will change strategy in contestants (i.e. including a minimum priced punt that likely won’t even play, or dress for that matter)….

    But as a high-volume player, I absolutely love this change !!!

    Last year I pretty much moved all my NBA action to DK….

    Now, it looks like I’ll be playing more FD this season….

    Very nice FD !!!

    Why did you move all your action to DK? Neither had late swap last year

  • Njsum1

    @gaelicgirl said...

    It doesn’t matter if you’re simply not counting the lowest score throughout the game or dropping the lowest score at the end of the game. The person with the higher “lowest score” will lose more points than the person with the lower “lowest score.” You’re disincentivizing people from trying to roster the highest scoring players at each position, and incentivizing them to roster a “throwaway” pick.

    Fan Duel was a no late swap site anyway, for someone like yourself who was in favor of full late swap, you should be happy with this change. I played this format on Victiv, during my first year playing nba and was able to keep up with and often outscore some recognizable pros.

    Anyway, although basketball is the most predictable sport, it still has variance. And players you think will do well, often don’t, so rostering a throwaway isn’t always wise. You want a a cheap player with upside, not a complete throwaway, IMO..yet to each his own. And don’t forget, you are not only protected against a late scratch, you are protected against INJURY..this is the most important thing to remember, as injuries are more frequent than late swaps, and a first quarter injury will ruin a lineup as quick as a late scratch.

    Don’t knock it until you try it, it really is a great solution.

  • gje627

    @noddy said...

    Why did you move all your action to DK? Neither had late swap last year

    Late swap isn’t/wasn’t the primary reason.

    Rather, I like the tighter salaries on DK making lineup construction more challenging and the ability to diversify lineups more given the Guard, Forward, Utility position designations…. Overall, it seems like there are less ties on DK than FD, but now since DK doesn’t have this new option it tips the scales back to near even between the two sites.

    Kind of like choosing between a rump roast or chuck roast, pluses and minuses for both, but overall I’m a rump roast guy. :)

  • noddy

    @gje627 said...

    Late swap isn’t/wasn’t the primary reason.

    Rather, I like the tighter salaries on DK making lineup construction more challenging and the ability to diversify lineups more given the Guard, Forward, Utility position designations…. Overall, it seems like there are less ties on DK than FD, but now since DK doesn’t have this new option it tips the scales back to near even between the two sites.

    Kind of like choosing between a rump roast or chuck roast, plus and minuses for both, but overall I’m a rump roast guy. :)

    Never mind

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    I do not think that rostering a punt play (with the assumption the score will be dropped) will often be the optimal strategy for GPP’s. I’d rather build a lineup that gives me more chances at guys reaching their upside/ceiling. Especially if pricing is not super tight/efficient.

    Cash games it likely would be the strategy though as you are looking to lock in as many high floor players (which typically come with higher salaried players).

    I do not play on FanDuel but I’d be interested to see how things play out. I give FanDuel credit for trying something different here. Not sure it completely solves the problem they are trying to solve but it creates new strategies/game theory.

  • gje627

    @noddy said...

    Never mind

    Okay….

    Now I’m confused by your reply to my reply, since I gave you my honest (not sarcastic, or in any way demeaning) reason for playing more DK than FD….

    Sorry if you took offense by my reply…. Not sure how you could, though.

  • dolphinkick182

    @lineupofpeace said...

    Does anyone think this is the best way to address late scratches?

    There really isn’t a best way to address late scratches. Only the NBA can do that by requiring teams to list active players by a specific time before the game starts.

  • noddy

    @gje627 said...

    Okay….

    Now I’m confused by your reply to my reply, since I gave you my honest (not sarcastic, or in any way demeaning) reason for playing more DK than FD….

    Sorry if you took offense by my reply…. Not sure how you could, though.

    Sorry my bad. I wrote something stupid. I liked your reply. I meant never mind to my original reply.

  • noddy

    This is huge for injuries that happen during the game and not just late scratches.

  • dolphinkick182

    @noddy said...

    Sorry my bad. I wrote something stupid. I liked your reply. I meant never mind to my original reply.

    He had me at rump roast lol. Now I’m hungry.

  • gje627

    @noddy said...

    Sorry my bad. I wrote something stupid. I liked your reply. I meant never mind to my original reply.

    No worries.

    I’m just glad I didn’t offend….

    Glad we’re on the same page now. :)

  • noddy

    @gje627 said...

    No worries.

    I’m just glad I didn’t offend….

    Glad we’re on the same page now. :)

    Yep we’re good. I wrote something about liking the rump.

  • lpdev

    This is not a good solution to the problem, it doesn’t help the casual player, but it does change things by adding an element of confusion to the lineup building process. In the past you just build a lineup of the players within the salary cap that you think will score the most overall. Simple and easy for the casual fan. Now the only approach that makes any sense at all is to find a position you want to be dropped and stick a min-priced punt in there. That way you aren’t cutting down the available salary for the spots that actually count toward your score. You’d have to be crazy to think this doesn’t give more of an edge to the top players.

  • damionismyname

    • Ranked #90

      RG Tiered Ranking

    so let me get this straight. I can now just pick a player that wont play at minimum and his score won’t count? I can now just pick the worst player at the worst position that night to load up on the others?

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