INDUSTRY FORUM

Comments

  • FDRep

    • FanDuel Representative

    Hi everyone, Nik here. We’re excited to share with you a big change to our NBA formatting for this season.

    If there’s one consistent frustration we’ve heard from NBA players, it’s the handling of inactive players. Whether it’s Pop late scratching LMA or a top-secret undisclosed mystery injury, it’s an awful experience when you’re drawing dead before the games even start. We call these events “avoidable zeroes”, and they’re the absolute worst.

    Over the summer we prototyped and tested a few different solutions and one thing became crystal clear – if we were going to make a change, we needed to make sure that the change was a fair change for everyone, and didn’t disadvantage one user segment while giving an advantage to another. I obviously can’t speak for every user, and while I’ve got a very loving (and patient!) wife at home, she’s got a limit to how much I’m glued to phone when we’re together. I’ve got friends who have kids, work nights, love the gym, and a whole host of different reasons why late swap simply doesn’t work for them. The division on the topic on the RG forums alone convinced us that it wasn’t the solution.

    Instead, we’re announcing a simple, yet powerful change: we’re dropping your lowest score. Call it best ball, call it a gimme, call it whatever you’d like. Bottom line, if a player puts up a zero, the score won’t count. Positions stay the same, scoring stays the same; we’ll simply only count your top 8. You don’t have to stay glued to your phone; you can pick that West Coast GTD with confidence and even he doesn’t go, you’re still in the running.

    Give it a try, and feel free to shoot me any feedback: nik.bonaddio@fanduel.com. Good luck!

    - NB

  • NBAFTeam1

    @gaelicgirl said...

    It doesn’t matter if you’re simply not counting the lowest score throughout the game or dropping the lowest score at the end of the game. The person with the higher “lowest score” will lose more points than the person with the lower “lowest score.” You’re disincentivizing people from trying to roster the highest scoring players at each position, and incentivizing them to roster a “throwaway” pick.

    Exactly, the absolutes of the situation do not change. All you have done is simply said, “we are not going to show it to you”, that doesn’t change the fact that it still exists. You can take this as far as you want. Player 1 could have a score of 335 and a low score of 35 and Player 2 could have a score of 305 and a low score of 4, and the latter ends up on top. How is this not absurd? In your attempt to stop the late scratch problem, you’ve essentially punished players for making good lineup choices.

    Also, do you really think the casual player will take this into account? If someone wants to play here and there, they are just as likely not to be sitting in front of a screen before 7:30 trying to figure out an optimal lineup as they are after 7:30. This will more than likely confuse the casual player who simply tries to put together a lineup to score the highest amount of points.

    From what I have seen the general response on Twitter has been extremely negative. You argue that people will stop playing stars & scrubs because the number of times they will suffer from not having a “real drop” will be higher than the number of times that they don’t need it. What data do have to back that up? You are telling me that there are scratches so often that the players playing stars & scrubs (or some version of this optimized through models) will not see a benefit in doing so long term.

  • Njsum1

    @lpdev said...

    This is not a good solution to the problem, it doesn’t help the casual player, but it does change things by adding an element of confusion to the lineup building process. In the past you just build a lineup of the players within the salary cap that you think will score the most overall. Simple and easy for the casual fan. Now the only approach that makes any sense at all is to find a position you want to be dropped and stick a min-priced punt in there. That way you aren’t cutting down the available salary for the spots that actually count toward your score. You’d have to be crazy to think this doesn’t give more of an edge to the top players.

    It doesn’t give an edge to top players. As I said in my previous post, I played this format on the site Victiv, my first season playing NBA. I hadn’t followed basketball in over a decade up until then and I did well, outscoring some well known pros more often than not.

    As I mentioned in my previous post and as echoed by @noddy, you are now also protected against injury, in game benching, foul trouble, unexpected crappy performances from some lower end guys, all of which are nightly unlucky occurrences. Taking the min priced punt who never plays is often not optimal, especially in cash type games. Granted if you make many lineups, you should probably do that in some, yet definitely not all. I know for sure, it won’t favor pros, like a full on late swap format does. Anyway, I’m done with this thread…great job FD..I’ll be making my first deposit there this nba season.

  • eKing

    Just give us late swap (or hell, no late swap), you have it on MLB, NFL, etc. No one from either side wanted this. Now, we’re forced to play min-priced goose eggs every night. While I like some things cheap and tacky, not my DFS. I’m afraid that I may be forced to play on that other site. :(

  • cdenny99

    This is dumb. Just change it back—it was fine the way it was

  • bigez952

    I think it is a good move to be different Draftkings and offer a product for the NBA that no one else does. I for one would be much more interest to play NBA on Fandeul than Draftkings this season but I am a very low volume casual NBA player. I will never spend a dime on a full late swap NBA slate but would consider trying out this 8 of 9 system a few times this year when I want to get in some NBA action for a night.

  • lpdev

    @Njsum1 said...

    It doesn’t give an edge to top players. As I said in my previous post, I played this format on the site Victiv, my first season playing NBA. I hadn’t followed basketball in over a decade up until then and I did well, outscoring some well known pros more often than not.

    Anything that adds a wrinkle to scoring and lineup building process gives pros an edge. The casual player doesn’t have the time and data resources to consider how to best use a throwaway pick for a set of NBA contests. I’m glad you had a positive experience on an old site that used a similar system, but it does give an edge to pros.

  • NBAFTeam1

    @Njsum1 said...

    It doesn’t give an edge to top players. As I said in my previous post, I played this format on the site Victiv, my first season playing NBA. I hadn’t followed basketball in over a decade up until then and I did well, outscoring some well known pros more often than not.

    As I mentioned in my previous post and as echoed by @noddy, you are now also protected against injury, in game benching, foul trouble, unexpected crappy performances from some lower end guys, all of which are nightly unlucky occurrences. Taking the min priced punt who never plays is often not optimal, especially in cash type games. Granted if you make many lineups, you should probably do that in some, yet definitely not all. I know for sure, it won’t favor pros, like a full on late swap format does. Anyway, I’m done with this thread…great job FD..I’ll be making my first deposit there this nba season.

    Foul trouble, in-game benching and unexpected poor performances from lower end guys (that is why they are lower end guys) are a part of the game. Why not add a bunch of other stuff to this list then? Account for matchups against tough defenses, slow-paced games, back-to-back games on the road. Why stop where you did? And these aren’t external factors such as late scratches, they are a part of the game.

  • gaelicgirl

    @lpdev said...

    This is not a good solution to the problem, it doesn’t help the casual player, but it does change things by adding an element of confusion to the lineup building process. In the past you just build a lineup of the players within the salary cap that you think will score the most overall. Simple and easy for the casual fan. Now the only approach that makes any sense at all is to find a position you want to be dropped and stick a min-priced punt in there. That way you aren’t cutting down the available salary for the spots that actually count toward your score. You’d have to be crazy to think this doesn’t give more of an edge to the top players.

    Exactly. Seeing how excited gje627 is about the change tells me all I need to know.

    They should have just left it alone, but FD seems hellbent on removing their attraction for casual players. I detest the idea of having to completely rethink my LU building process and everything I thought I knew about game theory. This just throws a whole bunch of uncertainty into the mix, and this is a “solution” to late scratches that nobody asked for.

    I have a headache now.

  • Njsum1

    @lpdev said...

    Anything that adds a wrinkle to scoring and lineup building process gives pros an edge. The casual player doesn’t have the time and data resources to consider how to best use a throwaway pick for a set of NBA contests. I’m glad you had a positive experience on an old site that used a similar system, but it does give an edge to pros.

    My last reply to this thread. It may give a smaller edge to pros as compared to no late swap at all, yet the edge is much smaller than in full late swap. However, casuals , heck all players, don’t like getting stuck with 0’s. In fact many casuals, myself included, would rather give a small edge to not have to get stuck with a 0.. This is the only solution that solved the problem of making the average user happy by not having to take a 0, while giving a much smaller edge to pros. It’s just a compromise. It’s as fair as it can be, imo. Good luck this season.

  • wafic

    • 207

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #17

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @damionismyname said...

    so let me get this straight. I can now just pick a player that wont play at minimum and his score won’t count? I can now just pick the worst player at the worst position that night to load up on the others?

    That will be the most common approach.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @eKing said...

    Just give us late swap (or hell, no late swap), you have it on MLB, NFL, etc. No one from either side wanted this. Now, we’re forced to play min-priced goose eggs every night. While I like some things cheap and tacky, not my DFS. I’m afraid that I may be forced to play on that other site. :(

    Yup optimal strategy will always be to take a min priced punt, FD already has the softest pricing in the industry so this just compounds that. They should have just left it how they had it, looks like Draftkings is the clear winner with this news.

  • cdenny99

    I’m a casual player, and I’d much rather get a couple of zeroes during the year than deal with this bad format.

  • kbsktbll88

    @damionismyname said...

    so let me get this straight. I can now just pick a player that wont play at minimum and his score won’t count? I can now just pick the worst player at the worst position that night to load up on the others?

    Yes. The only thing is though this will backfire on you if one of your 8 players that you loaded up on ends up being a late scratch or gets injured. Then you’re basically getting 2 goose eggs.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @FDRep said...

    Sure, but I think a lot of people have often accused us (and to be fair, our competitors) of caring more about the high-volume, high-entry players. I didn’t think that was true then, and it’s absolutely not true now. If someone is paying attention all night, great, but that’s an assumption we can’t and shouldn’t make.

    Gotta run for a sec, but I’ll reply more later. Thanks for the questions!

    - NB

    False this format only helps the pro’s even more lol maybe you didn’t think it thru clearly.

  • leib0039

    Not sure if I missed it, but I assume this starts with regular season? tonights Preseason games still counting all 9?

  • CP1

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I agree with this… A new player is going to try to make the best lineup without completely understanding that you can either use 9500 on one player that will likely be in your “top 8” and 3500 on a player who will likely not be as apposed to spending 6500 on two players one of which will not be used which practically throws away $3000. Literally every new player that sticks around will figure that out and use the punt method causing tons of overlap.

    Hate late swap, but this is dumb… and Ill be on DK.

  • al3b3d3v

    @monarch said...

    On full slates, dont pay for C. Just pick the lowest price option and load up at another position.

    why is that an optimal strategy ? if I have drummond or KAT vs Brooklyn where Im guaranteed a 50 burger, why would I punt there? the best way if you are to employ the punt strategy is punt at the position where there is no value. For example a matchup vs Kawhi and you got a shitty SF position, punt there and get the 0 and pay elsewhere that would make most sense.

  • al3b3d3v

    @kbsktbll88 said...

    playe

    if you got two zeros, one is a punt and the other is a real scratched your lineup is dead

  • kujo33

    This is awful. Will stop people from making lineups early too because optimal strategy will be to wait around and see which scrubs end up starting right before lock. Was planning on playing lots of FD after draftkings switched to late swap and now trying to decide which I hate less. I will say I believe this strongly discourages people from playing as many lineups. Typically you have to decide between some low priced guys. Now you can just jam in both of the cheap guys and turn what would have been multiple lineups (rotating the scrubs) into 1 lineup.

  • eppy12588

    • 431

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #55

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2016 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Please change it back to the regular format, this does not solve anything. Everyone is just gonna gamble that they don’t have a late scratch guy/injury and play a pure punt to maximize the salary for the 8 players that will count. Sure you can say that you hope people won’t do this or will stop doing this after they have their first late scratch paired with a pure punt and they’re drawing dead that night, but they won’t because it will be optimal strategy as long as you don’t have a late scratch or an injury which is rare as is.

  • dolphinkick182

    @leib0039 said...

    Not sure if I missed it, but I assume this starts with regular season? tonights Preseason games still counting all 9?

    Starts with the regular season.

  • gnicholas0225

    Since Fanduel knows when a player has been ruled out (the little red O that goes by a guy’s name when he’s ruled out), why not just allow for limited late swap in cases of guys ruled out?

    Or, if that still requires too much checking, why not just allow for a bench player that automatically subs in the event of a late scratch? Or just have that player ruled out replaced with the next cheapest guy at his position who has yet to play?

  • southmeddy2

    Stupid idea you WILL lose people to NBA playing this BS way man wow!

  • lpdev

    @eppy12588 said...

    Please change it back to the regular format, this does not solve anything. Everyone is just gonna gamble that they don’t have a late scratch guy/injury and play a pure punt to maximize the salary for the 8 players that will count. Sure you can say that you hope people won’t do this or will stop doing this after they have their first late scratch paired with a pure punt and they’re drawing dead that night, but they won’t because it will be optimal strategy as long as you don’t have a late scratch or an injury which is rare as is.

    Exactly! In order to play optimally players now need to change their approach. Players that are approaching the new system correctly, don’t get the benefit that the new system was designed to give.

  • thirdeyevest

    • x2

      Blogger of the Month

    Okay, Lock In a min priced dude every night, hit optimize. When you and I are doing that for the 1-10 LU’s we play a night the pros are doing that for 150. With this there is no incentive to take a flier on a GTD guy. Just take your Zero and move on.

  • X Unread Thread
  • X Thread with New Replies*
  • *Jumps to your first unread reply

Sites mentioned in this thread

Use our links to sign up and deposit on sites listed in this thread to get these bonuses:

Subforum Index

New RotoGrinders Sports Betting Section!

Are you a DFS player who wants to get into sports betting?

If you have access to New Jersey sports betting, then use our DraftKings Sportsbook promo code and our FanDuel Sportsbook promo code to get the best bonuses in the NJ industry.

Those who can take advantage of PA online sports betting should use our SugarHouse PA promo code to get the best sports betting bonus in Pennsylvania.

If you don't yet have access to an online sportsbook, check out Monkey Knife Fight, a prop betting platform available in 31 states. Use our Monkey Knife Fight promo code to get a fantastic bonus.

RotoGrinders.com is the home of the daily fantasy sports community. Our content, rankings, member blogs, promotions and forum discussion all cater to the players that like to create a new fantasy team every day of the week. Our goal is to help all of our members make more money playing daily fantasy sports!

Bet with your head, not over it!
Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-Gambler