INDUSTRY FORUM

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  • FDRep

    • FanDuel Representative

    Hi everyone, Nik here. We’re excited to share with you a big change to our NBA formatting for this season.

    If there’s one consistent frustration we’ve heard from NBA players, it’s the handling of inactive players. Whether it’s Pop late scratching LMA or a top-secret undisclosed mystery injury, it’s an awful experience when you’re drawing dead before the games even start. We call these events “avoidable zeroes”, and they’re the absolute worst.

    Over the summer we prototyped and tested a few different solutions and one thing became crystal clear – if we were going to make a change, we needed to make sure that the change was a fair change for everyone, and didn’t disadvantage one user segment while giving an advantage to another. I obviously can’t speak for every user, and while I’ve got a very loving (and patient!) wife at home, she’s got a limit to how much I’m glued to phone when we’re together. I’ve got friends who have kids, work nights, love the gym, and a whole host of different reasons why late swap simply doesn’t work for them. The division on the topic on the RG forums alone convinced us that it wasn’t the solution.

    Instead, we’re announcing a simple, yet powerful change: we’re dropping your lowest score. Call it best ball, call it a gimme, call it whatever you’d like. Bottom line, if a player puts up a zero, the score won’t count. Positions stay the same, scoring stays the same; we’ll simply only count your top 8. You don’t have to stay glued to your phone; you can pick that West Coast GTD with confidence and even he doesn’t go, you’re still in the running.

    Give it a try, and feel free to shoot me any feedback: nik.bonaddio@fanduel.com. Good luck!

    - NB

  • ajs1281

    @CP1 said...

    I agree with this… A new player is going to try to make the best lineup without completely understanding that you can either use 9500 on one player that will likely be in your “top 8” and 3500 on a player who will likely not be as apposed to spending 6500 on two players one of which will not be used which practically throws away $3000. Literally every new player that sticks around will figure that out and use the punt method causing tons of overlap.

    Hate late swap, but this is dumb… and Ill be on DK.

    That was my first thought too. The min price punt makes your effective salary go from 6666 to 7062 per player. Not a huge jump but not insignificant at $400 a player. Getting that 3800 guy who scores 25 that night right has no real upside because you will most likely end up dropping him anyway. The real wining strategy may be to play 2 sub 4k guys, hope one gets you a decent hit and drop the other one and enjoy your 7500 average players across the board and given FD pricing that really gives you a ton of flexibility to jam in solid to star players I really hope with this idea that FD is committed to much tighter pricing in NBA.

    Additionally I don’t see how this is not a HUGE advantage to the max entry guys. Assuming they build off a core 5 or 6 they have to cover less options if they are punting one slot or rotating flyers in 2 positions. By giving them that flexibility it is going to increase the edge on everyone else simply by giving them more variety.

    It is also possibly going to lead to absurd chalk and ownership % on players when there is a known scratch not factored in pricing. No incentive not to take the person to differentiate when it is either going to be a free square everyone has that crushes value or if they suck score drops anyway so no real harm done.

  • Njsum1

    @wafic said...

    That will be the most common approach.

    And that will be the incorrect approach on many nights. That will be the correct approach, when there is a min price player expected to produce. Like if a starting point guard or center is out, and his backup is min priced and is expected to get 30 minutes in a soft matchup. But putting a minpriced player in who is not expect to see much floor time, just to save salary is a folly IMO..other’s will disagree, yet I’ve played this format, and that strategy fails as much as it succeeds.

    With the way salary is set up, you can get like 2 or three superstars in your lineup, leaving like 5 to 6k left per player. You’re still going to have to put a player of questionable talent/ability in your lineup, even if you punt with a $3500 player. The odds are high that if you don’t use a pure punt that on many nights your 9th man will outscore one of your other 8 simply due to variance. Blowouts, foul trouble, injury, off night, etc, etc, ad nauseum. I’m simply saying a pure punt will only work sometimes. I’d rather have a contributor for a little more salary as my 9th man on nights where a min priced player with an expectation to produce can’t be found.

  • GaryPoupon

    FDRep do you see what this is going to do to the recreational player? New players are going to simply disregard this new change and be at a greater disadvantage, as this is a completely new angle that will require a lot of extra thought into different strategies. Aren’t the rules supposed to be as simple as possible for the new player?

    As many have already stated here: when 11k Anthony Davis gets late scratched you’re only going to be working with 49k/60k of your lineup as opposed to punting the 3500 guy and working with 56.5k/60k of your lineup. Late scratches/injuries don’t happen every night and Fanduel should darn well know that people don’t just stop playing because their player got hurt one night.

    This is such a chaotic ‘solution’ that as far as I can see will should actually be destroying the recreational player pool. I think many people will actually stop playing or at least scale back their Fanduel NBA volume with this change. I see guarantees decreasing as the recreational player pool is cannibalized and people flock back to DraftKings for the product we have all loved and adored for several years now. The product that has built Fanduels awesome daily active player base.

    FDRep Can you please remind the people who are potentially destroying Fanduels NBA product that the NBA tournament guarantees have awesomely risen over the past few seasons with no major changes to their core product. Pretty important thing to remind Fanduel about!

  • Nookx

    This is a bad idea.

  • eppy12588

    • 314

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #29

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2016 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Fanduel, and draftkings for that matter, needs to adopt what Draft does.

    If your player is scratched before tip off u have until tip off of the last game of the night to swap to anyone who is same price or cheaper than your scratched player.

    It’s a very simple solution where the person who was unfortunate enough to have a late scratch is not drawing dead now but also did not get an advantage by being able to change around their whole lineup to account for this injury.

    Draft uses push notifications to notify their players that a late scratch has happened, I dont see why fd and dk cannot do the same.

  • GaryPoupon

    This is also going to create way more chops on 2 game slates from what I can see, which was already a big issue on Fanduel before. It upsets me that Fanduel doesn’t do much about this, going against the core appeal of daily fantasy: awesome top prizes!!!. I see this change drawing people away from Fanduel over the course of this season and steering more towards Draftkings where you can create exponentially more combinations of lineups and therefore have a much better chance at winning more money (less chops) for shorter slates

  • ajs1281

    Also. Don’t sell it as “one bad outing or injury doesn’t ruin your night” when in reality losing an 8k+ guy is still going to shoot any real chance of getting into good money in a Gpp and most nights cash strategy is going to probably be to punt and take the floor. If you want to say it’s about protecting against a zero for the casual player and still have a chance to cash then please actually make the min cash in a gpp worth it for those casual players. Nobody should cash 1/2 lineups and lose money whether they take a zero or drop a player or however you solve it.

  • vmoney

    • 2018 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    I love it.

  • Pandamonious

    • 486

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • Moderator

    • 2019 Blogger of the Month

    @FDRep said...

    Gotta run for a sec, but I’ll reply more later. Thanks for the questions!

    – NB

  • dolphinkick182

    @eppy12588 said...

    Fanduel, and draftkings for that matter, needs to adopt what Draft does.

    If your player is scratched before tip off u have until tip off of the last game of the night to swap to anyone who is same price or cheaper than your scratched player.

    It’s a very simple solution where the person who was unfortunate enough to have a late scratch is not drawing dead now but also did not get an advantage by being able to change around their whole lineup to account for this injury.

    Draft uses push notifications to notify their players that a late scratch has happened, I dont see why fd and dk cannot do the same.

    Ok forget what I said before, I like this solution!

  • gaelicgirl

    Two Advils later, I still hate this idea with every fiber of my being, and I hate FD for forcing me to consider playing on DK because I can’t stand the thought of one of my carefully chosen picks being randomly dropped out of my total score.
    Less skill, more lottery.

    This is an insanely bad idea, FD, and I hope you come to whatever little senses you have before it’s too late.
    Don’t do this!

  • scott33

    @NBAFTeam1 said...

    Player 1 could have a score of 335 and a low score of 35 and Player 2 could have a score of 305 and a low score of 4, and the latter ends up on top. How is this not absurd?

    This is my fear. What if my lineup is the nuts & everyone at least hits 5-6 x.. This changes everything. I’ll admit I’m not a big fan of change so maybe that’s why I don’t like this. I guess some nights this will benefit me & others it won’t. But if I’m being honest I really don’t like this at all.

  • scott33

    @eppy12588 said...

    Fanduel, and draftkings for that matter, needs to adopt what Draft does.

    If your player is scratched before tip off u have until tip off of the last game of the night to swap to anyone who is same price or cheaper than your scratched player.

    It’s a very simple solution where the person who was unfortunate enough to have a late scratch is not drawing dead now but also did not get an advantage by being able to change around their whole lineup to account for this injury.

    Draft uses push notifications to notify their players that a late scratch has happened, I dont see why fd and dk cannot do the same.

    THIS

  • superjon

    @gaelicgirl said...

    Two Advils later, I still hate this idea with every fiber of my being, and I hate FD for forcing me to consider playing on DK because I can’t stand the thought of one of my carefully chosen picks being randomly dropped out my total score.
    Less skill, more lottery.

    This is an insanely bad idea, FD, and I hope you come to whatever little senses you have before it’s too late.
    Don’t do this!

    FD is seriously the worst.

  • Steven1974

    • Ranked #95

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @eppy12588 said...

    Fanduel, and draftkings for that matter, needs to adopt what Draft does.

    If your player is scratched before tip off u have until tip off of the last game of the night to swap to anyone who is same price or cheaper than your scratched player.

    It’s a very simple solution where the person who was unfortunate enough to have a late scratch is not drawing dead now but also did not get an advantage by being able to change around their whole lineup to account for this injury.

    Draft uses push notifications to notify their players that a late scratch has happened, I dont see why fd and dk cannot do the same.

    Yep, this would be the way to go with it. This new way is just a bad idea as it adds a different strategy that the casual player won’t really understand and the sharks will have a new edge.

  • cdenny99

    This is the worst day of the year. Time to start drinking. Thanks FD

  • hutswing

    The changed system favors players who buy in multiple tickets in a tournament – the heavy spenders.
    Disappointing that Fanduel implemented something like this.

  • gaelicgirl

    @cdenny99 said...

    This is the worst day of the year. Time to start drinking. Thanks FD

    Have one for me, I have to go to work. But I’ll be drinking later!

  • Cooper08

    • Blogger of the Month

    I think people are over reacting while they are assuming what will happen without actually making a lineup…punting one player at min price, which people already had done typically, really doesn’t allow you to go out and get anymore stars in your lineups vs what you were capable of doing last year. If you imply this strategy what it may or will do is allow you to go slightly up on the mid priced players in the 5-7k range. My challenge to the people who are not happy, go to the FD lobby and make a lineup for opening night slate the way you would have last year vs this years approach. You will not find much difference….in addition, isnt stacking teams the way to go on most nights vs individual stud players as people are mentioning. Finally, isn’t this going to help in gpp’s when it comes to ownership? Most are just assuming you take the stud, which in turn would make the higher priced players higher owned while the sharp play is taking the mid priced 6-7k player at lower ownership now due to everyone paying..there are several nights that many 6-7k players outscore the high priced players…

    Give this a chance…I think many who are not happy will have a different opinion after the first week.

  • maddysdaddy09

    Is this in effect tonight?

  • bigez952

    @Cooper08 said...

    I think people are over reacting while they are assuming what will happen without actually making a lineup…punting one player at min price, which people already had done typically, really doesn’t allow you to go out and get anymore stars in your lineups vs what you were capable of doing last year. If you imply this strategy what it may or will do is allow you to go slightly up on the mid priced players in the 5-7k range. My challenge to the people who are not happy, go to the FD lobby and make a lineup for opening night slate the way you would have last year vs this years approach. You will not find much difference….in addition, isnt stacking teams the way to go on most nights vs individual stud players as people are mentioning. Finally, isn’t this going to help in gpp’s when it comes to ownership? Most are just assuming you take the stud, which in turn would make the higher priced players higher owned while the sharp play is taking the mid priced 6-7k player at lower ownership now due to everyone paying..there are several nights that many 6-7k players outscore the high priced players…

    Give this a chance…I think many who are not happy will have a different opinion after the first week.

    Probably the best post in this entire thread. So often when sites make changes everyone overreacts like the sky is falling before even trying it once. If it will be so easy to just take a min price player and win every single night over the “casual” fans who don’t understand why is that bad thing and people should just load up on that strategy and retire off their winnings in April. Fantasy Draft has a best 6 of 7 for golf and I thought I was smarter than the system and always took 1 min price guy so I could get as many studs as possible and I got ran over using that strategy so I don’t think it is that simple.

    If you take a min priced guy who isn’t even playing you have to nail your other 8 picks vs a team that might have 9 lower priced high upside guys. He can afford to miss on a guy or two and still crush your auto 0 team that didn’t get the perfect 8 guys to go with him.

    Personally I am not really an NBA player but forward to giving this new format a try a few times this seaosn since I won’t put a dime into full late swap games on DK as I have the stats to back up that I can’t compete in that format.

  • bigez952

    @maddysdaddy09 said...

    Is this in effect tonight?

    No not until the regular season starts so the preseason slates are still the old format.

  • Amontyyy

    My head hurts from reading all these takes on the change.
    It’s simple: adjust to the change
    There’s wayyyy more to it than “just punt a min-priced Zero”
    May have to switch some $ from DK to FD (I don’t FD) to take advantage.

  • Tigerstyle26

    I agree with the consensus that the optimal strategy will be to punt at the weakest position. I use a value based approach when I build my lineup, therefore I would want to drop the lowest guy and still have 56,500 in salary for my total roster. I like that you tried to address the issue but I don’t think this will solve the problems of a late scratch. Like others have said if one of your higher priced players is scratched you are still screwed because your total team salary will be so much lower then others.

    Don’t worry though, I have the solution. Instead of dropping your lowest player you should have a bench spot. However, the only players eligible to be replaced by the bench spot would be players that were of equal or higher value. Ie you play a guy who is $6,000 on your bench spot he would be eligible to replace any player equal to or above the 6,000. This would eliminate the strategy of just punting the lowest spot. It could create a lot of different strategies as well, some might build a lineup of all guys priced at 6,500 and have bench player priced at 6,000. Or you could be scared Anthony Davis will pull an Anthony Davis so you pick a high priced bench player which leaves the rest of the lineup unprotected but actually gives real insurance for injury to a high priced guy.

    I don’t know if this would actually help or hurt recreational players I just think it would allow for a lot of different strategies. It would also do a better job of “protecting” you if a player was questionable because you could pick a bench player of higher value.

  • kroto

    honestly i’d prefer if you guys just separate the west coast game that are so late from the main slate, thats been working so far for NFL with those late and primetime game not in the main slate, this new change bad because it only works for one player, what if i wanna roaster more than one GTD player, lets say curry,durant and westbrooke are GTD in the west coast, if they dnt play i still get some zeros..

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