MAIN FORUM

Comments

  • DavidK44

    Almost every time scripts come up in these forums, the debate is on the substantive value of them – whether they give anyone an actual advantage (“just build better lineups”), whether maybe certain scripts do, whether sites should ban them to level the playing field or not, or whether the playing field has nothing to do with scripts.

    I think this element is overlooked – the vast majority of the population in America doesn’t know anything about DFS except what they hear on TV. Thanks to FD/DK’s insane advertising blitz, and a few media reports that may or may not have carried ulterior motives, the public perception on DFS is not paticularly positive. They also don’t really understand what a script is, or what it does, or why it may or may not give an advantage. They just hear that the top pros use scripts as part of a report, and often times the reports say the scripts are part of why the pros beat them (regardless of whether or not it’s true).

    Perception is often far more important than reality. If the public percieves scripts to be a problem, then they’re a problem. Unless either FTSA, or DK/FD, or Rotogrinders, or some other entity, wants to put out a massive marketing plan to try to change the perception about scripts and what they can or can’t do, then this perception is probably never going to change. And unlesss public perception changes, then scripts need to go. Period.

    The long-term health of DFS depends on casual players continuing to play for low-stakes, losing small amounts to the overall pool from time to time, as well as new customers signing up on a regular basis. It also depends on having politicial entities and big corporations not looking for any small thing to jump on to try to go after the entire landscape. Scripts, specifically the public perception of scripts and their increased awareness of the use of them, are a huge problem for the industry. They really need to be banned. Not because they’re bad, not because they may give an advantage, but because the vast majority of the population outside of DFS, and a significant portion of the population inside DFS, think they give an advantage.

    The same theory is why Ethan should have been let go by Draft Kings almost immediately. Regardless of whether or not he had access to ownership percentages before lock, and regardless of whether he used said ownership percentage information to build a FanDuel Lineup, thanks to media reporting that was either incompetent, lazy, stupid or had blatant ulterior motives, the narrative was “DraftKings employee uses insider information to win $350,000 on FanDuel”, and the public perception was almost universally that exact narrative.

    Too often people on here focus on the substance of an issue, forgetting that for the most part, the American public is uninformed, and isn’t going to turn to a Rotogrinders thread for a substantive debate on the issue. So regardless of whether something actually happened, what “Joe Sixpack” thinks is just as important, if not more important, than what actually happened.

  • DavidK44

    @WilliamDeBrigham said...

    You cant look at this from our eyes or view, you got to think what the general public/lawmakers who have very limited knowledge will view since thats all that will matter.

    100% agree obviously. Even worse, since the segment of the general public that consistently votes, and also sends letters/shows up to townhalls for Q&A with the legislator, etc., is very often the least knowledgeable segment of the already admittedly uniformed public.

  • iSplashRollz

    @tonytone1908 said...

    And yet not one person I know has mentioned it to me. All my friends and family know I play DFS regularly and no one has said a word to me about it. Nothing on Facebook at all either. No posts or article shares at all.

    Joe is just still kicking himself for not playing Freeman in that $2 LU he played just for fun.

    You must live in a cave

  • srolleDFS

    @iSplashRollz said...

    Excellent post by DavidK, waiting for the “ all the complainers took down DFS” crew of about 3-4 people to find fault with it. I see one already was the first responder…

    it seems like you have really taken this criticism hard. is it possible that your conscious is telling you something?

    you mainly troll something that you claim to like. thats really weird. maybe you’d find more satisfaction if you reflected on how whether you should continue maintain such a mind-bender of a stance.

  • MikeSos760

    @tonytone1908 said...

    And yet not one person I know has mentioned it to me. All my friends and family know I play DFS regularly and no one has said a word to me about it. Nothing on Facebook at all either. No posts or article shares at all.

    Joe is just still kicking himself for not playing Freeman in that $2 LU he played just for fun.

    The people who don’t play are usually not going to care, except the politicians and opposing businesses. The “average joe,” as you say, who does play will surely hear about it.

  • DavidK44

    @tonytone1908 said...

    And yet not one person I know has mentioned it to me. All my friends and family know I play DFS regularly and no one has said a word to me about it. Nothing on Facebook at all either. No posts or article shares at all.

    Joe is just still kicking himself for not playing Freeman in that $2 LU he played just for fun.

    Go read just one of the forums on Facebook in respond to a DK advertisment, or the comment base of any one of the news organizations that has covered this.

    Also, I’m guessing a bunch of your friends are not the ones we would classify as uniformed general public.

  • iSplashRollz

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Joe doesn’t watch the news. He’s watching ESPN. Who has barely mentioned this at all.

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13902561
    more of ESPN “barely” mentioning

  • tonytone1908

    @MikeSos760 said...

    The people who don’t play are usually not going to care, except the politicians and opposing businesses. The “average joe,” as you say, who does play will surely hear about it.

    So do you think this will really stop him from playing his $2 LU every week?

  • DavidK44

    @tonytone1908 said...

    So do you think this will really stop him from playing his $2 LU every week?

    No, but it may make him question whether to redeposit once he’s lost the initial amount he deposited, as he turns to another place for his NFL gambling degeneracy.

    Also will make him tell his brother not to deposit on a DFS site, instead call up his bookie to bet on NFL games.

    Finally, when local politician helps ban DFS in his community, he won’t really care because he had heard about all those scripts and insider infromation used by the guys who were beating him, so oh well, no big loss to him.

  • MikeSos760

    @tonytone1908 said...

    So do you think this will really stop him from playing his $2 LU every week?

    I never said it would stop them from playing. I just said that it was a ridiculous assumption to say that the average DFS player would not hear about it and I laid out why I thought so. I never talked about it causing them to not play anymore.

    A lot of casual GPP DFS players possibly just throw in a lineup or two a week for fu, not expecting much out of it, besides making it more fun for them to watch the other football games besides their own team’s game. (A friend of mine does this, and understands it is not likely that he will get first. It just makes it more fun for him. ) He may stop now though because of everything that is going on, but still if he lands on the magical lineup he will win.

  • tonytone1908

    @iSplashRollz said...

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13902561
    more of ESPN “barely” mentioning

    That was actually a promising sounding interview if you ask me. No mention of scripting. The NFL is fighting for DFS? Great. They’ve got more money than god. We should be in good shape.

    The government’s issue is that they want a cut of the possible $18 billion a year pie. They could care less about the rest.

    I still can’t believe though that people think Ethan won because he knew ownership numbers from a different site. I had no idea it was that easy.

  • tonytone1908

    @DavidK44 said...

    Go read just one of the forums on Facebook in respond to a DK advertisment, or the comment base of any one of the news organizations that has covered this.

    Also, I’m guessing a bunch of your friends are not the ones we would classify as uniformed general public.

    Because all the people making those posts are Joe Sixpack’s? Doubt it. They’re losers looking for someone to blame and somewhere to do it.

  • crazypaul

    @einars said...

    yeah i mean who cares what the right thing to do is, do whatever is going to appear to be the right thing…..are you a politician?? you dont care if(key word) he didnt do anything you think he should have been sacked right away to save face….

    I’m not on the Ethan witch hunt side, but let’s be realistic. If anyone at their job released private, sensitive data to the public, they would be fired. I’m not even mentioning the fact of how much money that security breach has now cost Draftkings alone.

  • DavidK44

    @tonytone1908 said...

    I still can’t believe though that people think Ethan won because he knew ownership numbers from a different site. I had no idea it was that easy.

    “No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.” – H.L. Mencken. That’s the quote often attributed to P.T. Barnum, by the way.

    Every time you wonder how people can think “Ethan only won because he cheated with insider information”, just remember that quote.

    Also, yes, it appears ESPN’s coverage is almost all about the “insider information” stuff, as opposed to the use of scripts. But script use was definitely covered a ton as well by many outlets. And just like people who think Ethan won because of insider information, there are plenty who blame scripts for why they lost. And of course, there are people who both blame scripts and insider information, and also probably blame 5,000 other things. The difference is when someone comes along and tells them he’s gonna fix this by regulating DK to ban scripts and protect sensitive information, dumb people gobble it up.

  • tonytone1908

    @DavidK44 said...

    No, but it may make him question whether to redeposit once he’s lost the initial amount he deposited, as he turns to another place for his NFL gambling degeneracy.

    Good thing we got all those big money sharks then to keep those large prize pools going, huh?

    I know I won’t be spending my gambling money elsewhere because I suck at gambling and I know it. DFS I actually had a chance.

    I can’t wait for transparency almost now so you guys can see how many losing lineups and money these sharks contributed so you could win your big prizes. I guess everyone thinks $5 million just fell out of a tree.

  • DavidK44

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Because all the people making those posts are Joe Sixpack’s? Doubt it. They’re losers looking for someone to blame and somewhere to do it.

    Unless you actually know someone named Joe Sixpack, that’s the exact type of person I would classify as Joe Sixpack. The general public includes a ton of people who are looking for someone to blame for whatever problems they have, including losing $5 a few days ago in a DFS contest.

  • smutpeddlers

    @tonytone1908 said...

    And yet not one person I know has mentioned it to me. All my friends and family know I play DFS regularly and no one has said a word to me about it. Nothing on Facebook at all either. No posts or article shares at all.

    Joe is just still kicking himself for not playing Freeman in that $2 LU he played just for fun.

    I’ve had acquaintances call me/text me because I mentioned I played over a year ago. They were calling to warn me about the scam. So I can tell you it was all over in my experience, Joe six pack called his friend Bob The Plummer to find out why he would play a game that is rigged. That’s my personal experience. I don’t have FB btw so I don’t know about that. Then the task of trying to explain that it is not rigged and what really happended.I just say yes I heard. It’s easier that way then trying to explain the intricacies of DFS

    I also have a question, What do you think is going to happen if they find our that Ethan at some point did do something that would be considered cheating? It’ll be WW3….. (Don’t think he did in this instance but you never know what could come out as a result of these investigations)

  • 1greatbuyz

    • x3

      2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Any script or program used on these sites to enter lineups and scoop up new player head to heads was just opening the door for this chaos. It kinda reminds me of steroids. Makes you faster and stronger, but hey who doesn’t want an edge?

  • tonytone1908

    @smutpeddlers said...

    What do you think is going to happen if they find our that Ethan at some ppint did do something that would be considered cheating?

    I don’t think they will ever be able to say he was cheating. Playing FD and DK is two different types of games. I can’t get accused of card counting playing blackjack if I’m playing poker right? Maybe that doesn’t sound right but I think you get the jist.

    Wouldn’t insider information have to be something that you knew was going to happen beforehand? Such as one company buying out another? Martha Stewart knew for a fact what was going to happen. Ethan still needed the people he played to do what they did. Unless he was able to affect somehow how they played I don’t see how he could get in trouble for anything.

  • tonytone1908

    @1greatbuyz said...

    Any script or program used on these sites to enter lineups and scoop up new player head to heads was just opening the door for this chaos. It kinda reminds me of steroids. Makes you faster and stronger, but hey who doesn’t want an edge?

    And what reason would you have to play if you didn’t at least THINK you had an edge?

  • smutpeddlers

    @tonytone1908 said...

    I don’t think they will ever be able to say he was cheating. Playing FD and DK is two different types of games. I can’t get accused of card counting playing blackjack if I’m playing poker right? Maybe that doesn’t sound right but I think you get the jist.

    Wouldn’t insider information have to be something that you knew was going to happen beforehand? Such as one company buying out another? Martha Stewart knew for a fact what was going to happen. Ethan still needed the people he played to do what they did. Unless he was able to affect somehow how they played I don’t see how he could get in trouble for anything.

    I was just being hypothetical. Being investigated can open a lot of people’s mouths and being put under a microscope sucks. It may have nothing to do with ownership percentages. For example, they find he was getting queries pre lock of “Pros” lineups. I’m not saying he did or would or anything. I’m just saying they could find something completely unrelated because of this investigation or even someone else at the company was doing something. All I am saying is, if they do find something, it’s not going to be pretty.

  • tonytone1908

    @smutpeddlers said...

    I was just being hypothetical. Being investigated can open a lot of people’s mouths and being put under a microscope sucks. It may have nothing to do with ownership percentages. For example, they find he was getting queries pre lock of “Pros” lineups. I’m not saying he did or would or anything. I’m just saying they could find something completely unrelated because of this investigation or even someone else at the company was doing something. All I am saying is, if they do find something, it’s not going to be pretty.

    I agree, it will suck. I just see it as no matter what kind of info you could be getting it still needs to all work out for you. Looking at pre lock lineups of pros could mean nothing as they could all be dummy lineups if you’re looking 2 hours before lock. Even minutes before lock they could all be changed if they have the scripts people think they do. They could purposely flood the information falsely if they were worried about it.

  • DavidK44

    @smutpeddlers said...

    I’ve had acquaintances call me/text me because I mentioned I played over a year ago. They were calling to warn me about the scam. So I can tell you it was all over in my experience, Joe six pack called his friend Bob The Plummer to find out why he would play a game that is rigged. That’s my personal experience. I don’t have FB btw so I don’t know about that. Then the task of trying to explain that it is not rigged and what really happended.I just say yes I heard. It’s easier that way then trying to explain the intricacies of DFS

    I also have a question, What do you think is going to happen if they find our that Ethan at some point did do something that would be considered cheating? It’ll be WW3….. (Don’t think he did in this instance but you never know what could come out as a result of these investigations)

    Absolutely. I had so many people contact me because they know I play DFS. I basically responded with “Do you want me to explain what actually happened”, and shockingly, most of them said naw, whatever, just wasn’t sure if you knew. Most people aren’t informed and don’t want to be informed.

  • DavidK44

    @tonytone1908 said...

    I don’t think they will ever be able to say he was cheating. Playing FD and DK is two different types of games. I can’t get accused of card counting playing blackjack if I’m playing poker right? Maybe that doesn’t sound right but I think you get the jist.

    Wouldn’t insider information have to be something that you knew was going to happen beforehand? Such as one company buying out another? Martha Stewart knew for a fact what was going to happen. Ethan still needed the people he played to do what they did. Unless he was able to affect somehow how they played I don’t see how he could get in trouble for anything.

    You can get in trouble for breaking rules even if they don’t actually give you an advantage. The best example of this I can think of is that it turns out that the Doctor that A-Rod was using for steroids a few years ago (Dr. Bosch) had no clue what he was doing in terms of actually useful steroids, and what he gave A-Rod had no actual ability to help him play better or get stronger or lift weights more often or any of it. He was basically a huckster (this as opposed to the BALCO guys, for example, who legitimately knew what they were doing).

    I don’t want to turn this into an A-Rod/steroids thread, it was just an example of someone breaking a rule even if it didn’t actually benefit him. If Ethan looked at sesnitive, private data, and used it to help make his lineups, even if it didn’t give him a material edge or help him, or be the cause of his playing well, it’s still cheating.

    Too often people on this forum, yourself included, focus on debating the substantive points of what Ethan may or may not have done. It misses the point. If you break rules, even if they don’t help you, you need to be punished. If Ethan really did look at ownership data at 12:45 PM, and built his FD lineup based on DK ownership data, regardless of whether or not that’s even a good strategy, and regardless of whether that’s the reason why he won, he still accessed sensitive data he was not supposed to access, and used in a way he was not supposed to. That’s a HUGE deal, regardless of whether or not it gave him an edge.

    Granted, it’s only a huge deal because the vast majority of people can’t understand past “This guy had inside information, and he won, therefore that’s why he won”, but unless you can figure out a way to change/educate the American public (good luck with that), that’s the world we live in.

  • DavidK44

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Good thing we got all those big money sharks then to keep those large prize pools going, huh?

    I know I won’t be spending my gambling money elsewhere because I suck at gambling and I know it. DFS I actually had a chance.

    I can’t wait for transparency almost now so you guys can see how many losing lineups and money these sharks contributed so you could win your big prizes. I guess everyone thinks $5 million just fell out of a tree.

    If you’re saying “you” in reference to me or the other people posting on this thread, not really sure why because we understand that there were just as many, if not more, sharks who entered 100s of losing lineups each week, in addition to the one or two sharks who enter 100s of lineups and also won big.

    But the public, not so much. And even with transparency, the public will look at that and instantly look at the one or two sharks that won a ton. They won’t even realize the other guys who pumped 100s of lineups and lost. Nor will they care even when it’s pointed out. They just want someone to blame when they lose, and will turn to something else, of course when they lose there, they’ll turn to another outlet.

  • hokie2009

    I’ll apologize up front I haven’t read this whole thread, and this will probably get buried (if somebody hasn’t already suggested it) …

    But I just can’t help myself …

    Why don’t the sites sacrifice one 30s commercial and build the most ridiculously badass advanced roster management utility on their sites, and put an end to all of this? They could easily build something that works way better than anything any of the “pros” are doing and make it available for everyone, and it would be done in almost zero time. Put in it every feature that people want and they deem acceptable, and ban the use of all other processes, and then enforce that as best as possible.

    Also if anyone is interested you can get somebody to do this work for you for … peanuts. Look online. People who don’t live in the USA and have time to bitch about DFS all day long will write code for you for less money than the guy at mcdonald’s gets paid to bag your food up. Just an option for anyone who thinks as it stands its something that is exclusive to only certain skill sets.

  • X Unread Thread
  • X Thread with New Replies*
  • *Jumps to your first unread reply

Subforum Index

RotoGrinders.com is the home of the daily fantasy sports community. Our content, rankings, member blogs, promotions and forum discussion all cater to the players that like to create a new fantasy team every day of the week.

If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL). Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (NJ/WV/PA/MI), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (CO), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-888-532-3500 (VA) or call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN).