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  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    So, ganondorf (a player who I remember as being a pretty big deal) is in my 2350 man $0.25 tournament with a $50 top prize and a prize pool of $500. He entered 200 lineups into this tournament (which would cost him $50). Aside from just trying to be a jerk, what is the point of doing something like this? Am I wrong in my thinking here, or is this just another sign of sites letting big BR players do whatever they want?

    BTW, this is the same guy with 500 entries in the Millionaire Maker.

  • realdeals

    To be crystal clear. I see no problem with anybody maxing out entries in the milly maker. Wish I could do the same and be profitable.

  • 8MileAllstars

    @btwice80 said...

    As for Seth’s suggestion of a small number of tiered games, wouldn’t all low volume players simply play in those games and essentially lead to a complete tiered system anyway? Which would lead to what I described above. Strictly talking cash games of course.

    I’m the one who suggested the tiered idea, and said I thought they could offer it on the same scale and/or terms of the single entry gpps on DK: roughly 6-10 gpps a slate. The limited size of the gpps, plus the limited prize pools would probably ensure that there wouldn’t be more than a small ripple effect on the rest of the site. If anything, it would probably fatten up some mid-tier players for the next level. I’m not sure exactly how it would work for cash games, but if it was similarly limited, I wouldn’t think there’d be much of an effect.

  • CP1

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @8MileAllstars said...

    You play massive volume. Most, and I mean like over 90% of the players don’t. This isn’t your game, and you don’t set the rules. You decided you wanted to become proficient enough to play at a high volume, why should anyone else have to do something to fit your preferred methods? It’s kind of pathetic that alleged “sharks” like you feel the need to take this kind of position. It would be like PGA tour pros trying to get on the Nike circuit in their off weeks.

    Not trying to set the rules. Just based on the rules there is nothing wrong with what GD or any other player did and there are enough games out there for players to find soft matchups if they look.

  • mannmicj

    Does any site currently have an entry limit?

  • Putz

    @Putz said...

    The “playing by the rules” is a red herring and misses the point for those with short memories from the spring, because there was a certain group of players who had scripts when they were against the rules, and the sites just looked the other way, then modified the rules when this activity was exposed by one member of this group, which enabled more entries at a faster pace, which meant higher rake collected by the sites.

    lol

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    @btwice80 said...

    If one of the major sites went to a complete tiered system, guys like me who play high volume but not massive volume would simply move the vast majority (if not all) of our action to the site without tiers, and only play a small enough amount on the tiered site to be in the lower division.

    So neither site would ever do this on their own. Both sites would have to cooperate and adopt the system together. We all know that’s not going to happen, but if it did, it wouldn’t be long before the number of high volume players plummeted. There is no way around the fact that tiers would drastically reduce overall revenue.

    As for Seth’s suggestion of a small number of tiered games, wouldn’t all low volume players simply play in those games and essentially lead to a complete tiered system anyway? Which would lead to what I described above. Strictly talking cash games of course.

    Sites building rules around higher volume players is the issue. Sharks will ALWAYS go where the money is located.

    I play decent volume and have been successful in five sports. I would take all of my volume to a site that has tiers.

    Btw cp1 where do you post h2h games. I’ll play you.

    FCK

  • Putz

    @mannmicj said...

    Does any site currently have an entry limit?

    Why would they, it just limits their rake collection and revenue.

  • sethayates

    @btwice80 said...

    If one of the major sites went to a complete tiered system, guys like me who play high volume but not massive volume would simply move the vast majority (if not all) of our action to the site without tiers, and only play a small enough amount on the tiered site to be in the lower division.

    So neither site would ever do this on their own. Both sites would have to cooperate and adopt the system together. We all know that’s not going to happen, but if it did, it wouldn’t be long before the number of high volume players plummeted. There is no way around the fact that tiers would drastically reduce overall revenue.

    As for Seth’s suggestion of a small number of tiered games, wouldn’t all low volume players simply play in those games and essentially lead to a complete tiered system anyway? Which would lead to what I described above. Strictly talking cash games of course.

    I wouldn’t want an all out tier system for the reasons you mentioned. That’s why I said these tiered games would ideally be a very small percentage of the site’s action. A good comparison is beginner games. You let people learn against similar opponents. You can’t abuse the games though or you knock yourself out of the tier. If anything, the drawback to a tiered system is that the “best of the worst” win the money then up their action and lose it to the same people who win all the money now.

  • realdeals

    It truly amazes me people see no issue with this. A guy is playing > 100k a day and enters max entries at .25 for $50 to win f’n $50 for 1st. Just absolutely clueless people. I hope you make your living of your braun and not your brain. I don’t pray often, but I’ll pray for you guys. Hah.
    I quit this thread.

  • btwice80

    @realdeals said...

    It truly amazes me people see no issue with this. A guy is playing > 100k a day and enters max entries at .25 for $50 to win f’n $50 for 1st. Just absolutely clueless people. I hope you make your living of your braun and not your brain. I don’t pray often, but I’ll pray for you guys. Hah.
    I quit this thread.

    Of course I think it’s ridiculous. Plus, the rake on the quarter arcade is 15%, so I don’t understand why anyone plays it unless they don’t have the BR for the $1 GPP.

  • realdeals

    That Wasn’t directed at you, btwice. Not sure how I feel about the tier system. I know it sounds good in theory but I’m not sure it’s practicable. Haven’t thought about it too much though.

  • tianyihe

    @realdeals said...

    It truly amazes me people see no issue with this. A guy is playing > 100k a day and enters max entries at .25 for $50 to win f’n $50 for 1st. Just absolutely clueless people. I hope you make your living of your braun and not your brain. I don’t pray often, but I’ll pray for you guys. Hah.
    I quit this thread.

    Here’s a question for ya. As you are walking down the street and there is a $20 bill on the street, would you go over and pick it up?

    This is pretty much what ganondorf did. He has already created 50-200 lineups for his other GPP entries and decided to enter them into the quarter arcade to pick up that $20.

    And no, he did not risk $50 to win $50. $50 goes to first place, he could easily take all top 10 spots and win $141.

  • dude_abides7

    @jimmyrad said...

    200 out of 2350 in a quarter game, really? Have you no shame man? Another ambassador of the industry dumpster diving for that free taco on the way to the next big baller live final, pathetic.

    5 pages ago…this ^ was said. IMHO, there really doesn’t need to be further analysis.

    Did he play within the rules….yes.

    Was it a dick move…yes.

    Should the sites step in and take a common sense approach to some of this…yes

    Will they…no.

  • Avgplayer

    @fishcakeking said...

    Sites building rules around higher volume players is the issue. Sharks will ALWAYS go where the money is located.

    I play decent volume and have been successful in five sports. I would take all of my volume to a site that has tiers.

    Btw cp1 where do you post h2h games. I’ll play you.

    FCK

    Paging cp1

  • realdeals

    @tianyihe said...

    Here’s a question for ya. As you are walking down the street and there is a $20 bill on the street, would you go over and pick it up?

    This is pretty much what ganondorf did. He has already created 50-200 lineups for his other GPP entries and decided to enter them into the quarter arcade to pick up that $20.

    And no, he did not risk $50 to win $50. $50 goes to first place, he could easily take all top 10 spots and win $141.

    Try again, I clearly said to win $50 for 1st, not to win $50 total. honestly, i would give that $20 away if I had 100K in action daily. Wait, he’s not doing experimental rosters construction like someone suggested he might be doing a few pages ago? I’d bet Ganondorf doesn’t even realize he’s risking $50 in a contest to win $50 for “1ST” place. He does know he’s entering max entries of a .25 GPP which I think is a dick move.

  • Stonecoldnuts

    You will see the slow decline of DFS after this football season…this marketing strategy and greed is going to backfire on fanduel and draftkings. Too many eyes on the industry and what is going on within it now. Its a shame what they are letting happen but in reality it was going to implode at some point. You cant have an online product like this and not have some computer program and people with lots of money not figure it out and win. If you have a big enough bankroll and no job you can win a lot of money at DFS and take advantage of a lot of things if you are smart enough. Its really the sites faults though not the players. People are teaming together in the milly makers, scripts are running in tournaments and now the nfl wants their players to promote the sites…..When the pros keep saying its only going to get bigger I just laugh…just a damn shame!

  • blackcloud420

    If I made a live event Im not sure I would even go DFS has some of the worst human beings around.

  • Putz

    @blackcloud420 said...

    If I made a live event Im not sure I would even go DFS has some of the worst human beings around.

    Examples? I guess you are never going to visit DC then.

  • CP1

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @fishcakeking said...

    Sites building rules around higher volume players is the issue. Sharks will ALWAYS go where the money is located.

    I play decent volume and have been successful in five sports. I would take all of my volume to a site that has tiers.

    Btw cp1 where do you post h2h games. I’ll play you.

    FCK

    Fanduel

  • kbarnhill7523

    • 2018 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2017 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @realdeals said...

    I can’t get over dude thinking he might be trying different roster construction by doing 200 .25 lineups while he has 500 $20 lineups. Hah, funny shit.

    Stop being a punk. All I said was that we can’t assume another player’s motivation for the games they enter and gave a meaningless example of a reason someone might do it other then malicious intent.

    All the tiered system would do is allow people to take money from people who thought they were playing either beginner or intermediate players. High volume guys would cut their volume on that particular site to stay within the parameters of the tiers that could be most profitable for them. At least now everyone is on a level playing field without assuming they are playing people of similar ability. You take that away and the integrity of the industry is really in trouble.

  • sethayates

    @kbarnhill7523 said...

    Stop being a punk. All I said was that we can’t assume another player’s motivation for the games they enter and gave a meaningless example of a reason someone might do it other then malicious intent.

    All the tiered system would do is allow people to take money from people who thought they were playing either beginner or intermediate players. High volume guys would cut their volume on that particular site to stay within the parameters of the tiers that could be most profitable for them. At least now everyone is on a level playing field without assuming they are playing people of similar ability. You take that away and the integrity of the industry is really in trouble.

    I think this argument misses the boat on a key element. There is a finite amount of DFS action available on any given day. Let’s say that DraftKings decides they like the idea of a tiered system. They now offer games in the following levels:

    Under $1000 played in current month
    Under $5000 played in current month
    Unlimited

    Now let’s assume Ganondorf (not picking on him just an example) currently plays $100K per month. If I’m understanding your argument you are saying Ganondorf would cut his action off at $5000 per month. Here is the problem. What does he do with the other $95K that he has been playing? He already plays on FanDuel and he’s probably close to the game limit there already. If he wants to keep his action at less than $5K on DraftKings he needs to find $95K in additional action on FD. He can’t do that though without moving up in stakes.

    The other option is to split the action out to the smaller sites. The problem there is that those sites don’t have the ecosystem to sustain a massive player coming in. Also, with sports that have late-breaking news (NBA) it is a lot of work to react to last minute news when you have lineups on 5+ sites.

    Last year when FD crashed week one several high-volume players made the argument that they literally couldn’t quit either of the Big Two if they wanted. If you currently play $100K on either of the Big Two you simply can’t find enough action to replace that amount. A low-volume player can always find somewhere else to go with their $25 per night. The same isn’t true for high-volume guys.

  • realdeals

    @kbarnhill7523 said...

    Stop being a punk. All I said was that we can’t assume another player’s motivation for the games they enter and gave a meaningless example of a reason someone might do it other then malicious intent.

    I’ll stop. But, there is no other viable reason than to grab every penny. How many of the “pros” enter max entries into the .25? I don’t know the answer b/c I don’t play the .25.

  • kbarnhill7523

    • 2018 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2017 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @sethayates said...

    I think this argument misses the boat on a key element. There is a finite amount of DFS action available on any given day. Let’s say that DraftKings decides they like the idea of a tiered system. They now offer games in the following levels:

    Under $1000 played in current month
    Under $5000 played in current month
    Unlimited

    Now let’s assume Ganondorf (not picking on him just an example) currently plays $100K per month. If I’m understanding your argument you are saying Ganondorf would cut his action off at $5000 per month. Here is the problem. What does he do with the other $95K that he has been playing? He already plays on FanDuel and he’s probably close to the game limit there already. If he wants to keep his action at less than $5K on DraftKings he needs to find $95K in additional action on FD. He can’t do that though without moving up in stakes.

    The other option is to split the action out to the smaller sites. The problem there is that those sites don’t have the ecosystem to sustain a massive player coming in. Also, with sports that have late-breaking news (NBA) it is a lot of work to react to last minute news when you have lineups on 5+ sites.

    Last year when FD crashed week one several high-volume players made the argument that they literally couldn’t quit either of the Big Two if they wanted. If you currently play $100K on either of the Big Two you simply can’t find enough action to replace that amount. A low-volume player can always find somewhere else to go with their $25 per night. The same isn’t true for high-volume guys.

    Well first I don’t think DK would put an arbitrary $1k/$5k/Unlimited tier in the first place. All you’ve done here is create fake parameters that try to prove your point. And even so DK wouldn’t care about losing 100 $1k players if it can keep (sustainably) a single $100k player. I’m sure many thousands of $1k players cycle in and out every single month. $100k players don’t grow on trees and they are very good for filling contests and feeding rake.

    I don’t disagree that it would be good from a regular player perspective to have tiers. I think the reasoning in this thread is flawed. DK already has beginner games and I think that is a good thing. My main issue with all of this is the people on here crying foul have a huge issue with a pro player taking advantage of new players and want to create a different playing climate that would allow themselves to take advantage of the new players instead. It seems hypocritical to me that’s all.

    There is lots of negative publicity about DFS out there right now and I know we are all invested in trying to evolve the DFS climate so that we can combat what we feel like are the negative aspects of the industry. I like playing and its profitable for me, probably the same for most of the people in this thread.

  • realdeals

    @blackcloud420 said...

    If I made a live event Im not sure I would even go DFS has some of the worst human beings around.

    I hope I make a live event to meet ganadorf and have a discussion on quarters. Hah.

  • Monix111

    What’s hilarious is that people that enter huge amounts of times in any kind of tournament still think they accomplished something in a game of skill if they win. Congratulations that 1 of 200 entries actually scored some cash for you.
    As a newbie to DFS, I“m finding the entire industry to be high comedy. The commercials alone are pathetic. Talk about something that could be great as a hobby for a lot of sports fans that’s already been ruined before it barely even started. It’s only a matter of time before lawmakers begin regulating this industry in some further fashion.

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