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  • Baal

    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/DraftKings-Fanduel-Fantasy-Football-Sports-Daily-Site-Eric-Schneiderman-Attorney-General-351063191.html

    http://www.newsday.com/long-island/politics/spin-cycle/schneiderman-seeks-injunction-to-immediately-shut-down-fanduel-draftkings-1.11134115

  • kellykip

    From today’s filing:

    The following are excerpts of the memorandum of law filed by the Office of the Attorney General:

    The New York State Constitution has prohibited bookmaking and other forms of sports gambling since 1894. Under New York law, a wager constitutes gambling when it depends on either a (1) “future contingent event not under [the bettor’s] control or influence” or (2) “contest of chance.” So-called Daily Fantasy Sports (“DFS”) wagers fit squarely in both these definitions, though by meeting just one of the two definitions DFS would be considered gambling. DFS is nothing more than a rebranding of sports betting. It is plainly illegal.

    Yet FanDuel and DraftKings insist that DFS is not gambling because it involves skill. But this argument fails for two clear reasons. First, this view overlooks the explicit prohibition against wagering on future contingent events, a statutory test that requires no judgment of the relative importance of skill and chance—they are irrelevant to the question. Second, the key factor establishing a game of skill is not the presence of skill, but the absence of a material element of chance. Here, chance plays just as much of a role (if not more) than it does in games like poker and blackjack. A few good players in a poker tournament may rise to the top based on their skill; but the game is still gambling. So is DFS.

    FanDuel and DraftKings’ current denials about DFS constituting gambling are belied by how the sites depicted themselves in the past and how they portray themselves behind closed doors. FanDuel’s DFS contests were designed by a veteran of the legal online betting industry in the United Kingdom, Nigel Eccles. The company admitted to an early investor that its target market is male sports fans who “cannot gamble online legally.”

    DraftKings depicts itself to investors in a similar fashion. For example, in one investor presentation, DraftKings pitched itself to a prospective investor by noting the “Global opportunity for online betting,” pointing to the massive revenue of the “global online poker market,” and making direct comparisons throughout the presentation to poker and sports wagering.

    The CEO of DraftKings previously spoke openly about DraftKings as a gambling company. He called DFS a “mash[-]up between poker and fantasy sports,” suggested that DraftKings operates in the “gambling space,” and described its revenue model as “identical to a casino.”

    The rejection of the gambling label by the DFS sites is particularly hard to square with the overt strategy of recruiting gamblers. For FanDuel, this has meant hiring a former top executive from Full Tilt, the online poker company, and affiliating with gambling industry stalwarts like “Vegas Insider” and BetVega, a sports betting and handicapping website. For DraftKings, this has meant aligning itself closely and negotiating sponsorships with other gambling ventures, like the World Series of Poker and the Belmont Stakes.

    DraftKings has also embedded gambling keywords into the programming code for its website. Some of these keywords include “‘fantasy golf betting,’’ “weekly fantasy basketball betting,” ‘‘weekly fantasy hockey betting,” “weekly fantasy football betting,” “weekly fantasy college football betting,” “weekly fantasy college basketball betting,” “Fantasy College Football Betting,” “daily fantasy basketball betting,” and “Fantasy College Basketball Betting.” This increases the likelihood that search engines, like Google, will send users looking for gambling straight to the DraftKings site.

    FanDuel’s advertisements commonly showcase testimonials from ostensibly ordinary DFS players (g.,“Zack from Fairfield, California”), and play up the ease of playing and of winning huge cash prizes…The reality is that like poker, blackjack, and horseracing, a small percentage of professional gamblers use research, software, and large bankrolls to extract a disproportionate share of DFS jackpots. With poker and DFS, professional players, known as “sharks,” profit at the expense of casual players, known as “minnows.” The numbers show that the vast majority of players are net losers, losing far more money playing on the sites than they win. DraftKings data show that 89.3% of DFS players had an overallnegative return on investment across 2013 and 2014.

    While irresponsibly denying their status as gambling companies, the DFS Sites pose precisely the same risks to New York residents that New York’s anti-gambling laws were intended to avoid. Experts in gambling addiction and other compulsive behaviors have identified DFS as a serious and growing threat to people at risk for, or already struggling with, gambling-related illnesses.

    Jeffrey L. Derevensky, Director of the International Centre for Youth Gambling Problems and High-Risk Behavior at McGill University, notes that, among other things, false or misleading representations of the skill involved in DFS “can lead players to a preoccupation with DFS, chasing of losses, and developing symptoms and behaviors associated with a gambling disorder.”

    http://www.ag.ny.gov/press-release/ag-schneiderman-seeks-preliminary-injunction-against-fanduel-and-draftkings

  • Sharpljp

    Larry I agree that if there’s illegal activity happening within DFS (issues with transparency, internal controls, etc) then the government should investigate. And I agree that DraftKings and FanDuel have helped bring it onto themselves. If each state wants to intervene with private enterprise and regulate because crooks run the business then so be it. It’s up to that state. But whore politicians (not 100% of politicians, only the whore politicians) aren’t looking to be fair or do whats best for the public. They protect their own interests. They do so by passing more legislation and rules. Government gets bigger and freedoms become fewer.

  • Putz

  • kellykip

    Obviously the blame lies squarely with “Zack from Fairfield, California”

  • kellykip

    looks like we have about 20 minutes left to lock in entries for tonight until the 2:30pm cutoff on FanDuel for NYers. Can’t play anymore from 2:30pm till at least the hearing

    https://newsroom.fanduel.com/2015/11/17/response-to-legal-situation-in-new-york/

    we are temporarily suspending entry in paid contests for people located in New York as of 2:30 pm EST today, Tuesday, November 17th. This is in addition to the restrictions on deposits previously implemented. We believe that this restriction is temporary and we hope to be able to offer our paid contests to New Yorkers again very soon.

    But for users who have questions about contests, please read below.

    – If you entered into a FanDuel contest before 2:30pm EST on Tuesday, the contest will run, uninterrupted.

    – As of Tuesday’s cut off, users in New York will be restricted from entering paid contests.

  • mrchuffy

    It is sad to see DFS fall, I love playing and it gives me something to look forward to after a boring day at work. I blame DK and FD for thinking they were invincible, they never listened to the community. Many players spoke up about changes that needed to be made. Both sites ingnored these players and the many threads on this very forum. They continued to only look at the bottom line, even changing their TOS in favor of allowing scripts which was a huge misstep in my opinion. Greed is a bitch and at the end of the day it will kill DFS. Whether it’s the greed of the sites to own the biggest market share or politicians to fill their own pockets or KCannon trying to scoop up fish games using an illegal script. At the end of the day the people who love DFS suffer the most.

  • Revolution

    Can we edit lineups still if our entries are locked in.? Wat a FUKIN joke

  • kellykip

    @Revolution said...

    Can we edit lineups still if our entries are locked in.? Wat a FUKIN joke

    By the wording, I’m assuming they will run normally in that regard, just that we will be prevented from entering a tourney after 2:30pm.

    I wish I was 100% sure about that.

  • theinnovative

    I entered NFL contests too just incase

  • whothis

    @kellykip said...

    looks like we have about 20 minutes left to lock in entries for tonight until the 2:30pm cutoff on FanDuel for NYers. Can’t play anymore from 2:30pm till at least the hearing

    https://newsroom.fanduel.com/2015/11/17/response-to-legal-situation-in-new-york/

    we are temporarily suspending entry in paid contests for people located in New York as of 2:30 pm EST today, Tuesday, November 17th. This is in addition to the restrictions on deposits previously implemented. We believe that this restriction is temporary and we hope to be able to offer our paid contests to New Yorkers again very soon.

    But for users who have questions about contests, please read below.

    – If you entered into a FanDuel contest before 2:30pm EST on Tuesday, the contest will run, uninterrupted.

    – As of Tuesday’s cut off, users in New York will be restricted from entering paid contests.

    LMFAO! just saw this post, listening to 98.7 espn radio and Fanduel just had a ad to play on their site……

  • kellykip

    yeah me too. I assume if they won’t let us edit teams for some reason, they will refund our entry money.

  • Revolution

    Just locked in a couple NFL lineups. Wat a load of bs

  • bbqnut

    I live in Massachusetts so for the moment the situation here isn’t as dire as it appears to be in NY. Nevertheless if NY goes down, there is a good chance the dfs landscape will change drastically. In retrospect, I do think that DK and FD were fooling themselves and us players that dfs is not a form of gambling. Perhaps their lawyers will be able to convince a judge otherwise, but I’m not optimistic.

    The fact that all states endorse various forms of gambling makes me wonder if perhaps the better route to take is to try and get legislative approval of dfs. I realize that too much regulation may ruin a good thing, but I don’t know what other alternatives are out there.

    Bottom line at the moment is that this mess sucks.

  • JaNelson38

    Meanwhile, dozens of underground poker clubs are dealing cards right now as I speak in New York City. But that damn “illegal” DFS….

    Elections matter. When a public makes its government too big, that simply means they’re big enough to take everything you have.

  • Ravenfan

    I think forums such as this carry some blame though too. The large volume players on here some here and shout down people pointing out that large volume multi-entry can give the APPEARANCE of gambling. In the end, appearance is what those outside the industry are going to judge the industry on. Those that insist we should not have limits on entries empowered FD and DK to stand their ground without changes, and now we have to run the risk of further decisions against DFS. For those outside of NY this means little in the long run, but the failure to limit entries will be looked at as a significant issue by the DOJ. That decision might be the end for all of us playing DFS. FD and DK still have time to change, but it’s running short, very short.

  • troveur

    DFS will go through tough times on the road to legality and will survive in the end BUT FD and DK are looking like corpses tbh….

  • D4RTHPH4D4R

    inb4lock

  • mellofellowsu

    @Jeffnyr911 said...

    I mean it’s obviously gambling. If your father or brother or friend was a compulsive/degen gambler would you support his decision to play DFS

    Degen gamblers don’t need DFS to get their fix. They’ll do it whether it’s here or not. Govt shouldn’t infringe on those that can use the product responsibly.

  • theoddsmaker

    @troveur said...

    DFS will go through tough times on the road to legality and will survive in the end BUT FD and DK are looking like corpses tbh….they are in serious trouble as companies if they lose in NY and FL and that doesn’t even mention the Federal criminal charges they will face in both states.

    RIP FD/DK

    FL is introducing a bill that would keep it legal and regulate it.

    NY is basically playing Deangelo Williams in cash games last week and about to watch all the states that faded him make all the money and be sad about it later :(

    That $150k donation from casinos to AG campaign was weeeeeeak, but obviously the reason behind all of this. FD could easily out-do that haha. Anyways though I doubt NY DFS’ers are going to be playing the lotto today to get their fix instead.

  • Ravenfan

    @Sharpljp said...

    Larry I agree that if there’s illegal activity happening within DFS (issues with transparency, internal controls, etc) then the government should investigate. And I agree that DraftKings and FanDuel have helped bring it onto themselves. If each state wants to intervene with private enterprise and regulate because crooks run the business then so be it. It’s up to that state. But whore politicians (not 100% of politicians, only the whore politicians) aren’t looking to be fair or do whats best for the public. They protect their own interests. They do so by passing more legislation and rules. Government gets bigger and freedoms become fewer.

    You say you understand that it’s up to the state and they have a right to regulate it if they have concerns about how DK and FD are ran, but then you also say you don’t want to see politicians do it? So who in the state government would do it if politicians can’t????

  • Dmurphy104

    • Blogger of the Month

    Stupid question time..

    Why only Fanduel and Draftkings? Skimming through the filing, he seems to focus quite heavily on the marketing aspect of it, and less about the games themselves.

    Did I miss it? Has he made any statement about the other sites operating in NY?

  • CMags44

    OK, how come nobody has brought up the obvious? Given that is NY, isn’t the next step for the AG to shut down the NYSE? Purchasing stocks, and their future value, is clearly based on future contingent events, of which the purchaser has no control over. Isn’t this the NY definition of gambling? And if you don’t buy the “stocks” argument, what about options – especially naked (non-covered) options? Clearly you are betting, in that instance, that a stock’s price will move significantly either up or down.. you are wagering a bet (monies paid) that you will be able to execute your option and make money. This AG needs to be consistent – if DFS is illegal by the definition he uses, so is the NYSE!

  • Dmurphy104

    • Blogger of the Month

    That’s literally been brought up 1000 times. There are exceptions in the gambling laws for lottery, stock market, etc..

  • winsome

    Again, the hubris of the sites bit them squarely in the a$$. You cannot market yourself behind closed doors as a gambling site to secure investors/growth and then swear out in the open you believe it to be a game of skill. They’re gonna get demolished.

  • Ravenfan

    @CMags44 said...

    OK, how come nobody has brought up the obvious? Given that is NY, isn’t the next step for the AG to shut down the NYSE? Purchasing stocks, and their future value, is clearly based on future contingent events, of which the purchaser has no control over. Isn’t this the NY definition of gambling? And if you don’t buy the “stocks” argument, what about options – especially naked (non-covered) options? Clearly you are betting, in that instance, that a stock’s price will move significantly either up or down.. you are wagering a bet (monies paid) that you will be able to execute your option and make money. This AG needs to be consistent – if DFS is illegal by the definition he uses, so is the NYSE!

    Statements like this do not make the DFS community look good when others are making future decisions. Again, these state decisions will matter little in the future. There was a post on here before that DOJ that intends to rule by the end of December. They are the ones we need to be concerned about.

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