INDUSTRY FORUM

  • kingofqueens

    • 2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x3

      2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/sports/draftkings-fanduel-fbi-investigation.html?ref=sports&_r=0

  • phillygamecox

    NY Times is really out for blood, huh?

    Anybody ever see this article from 2013?
    http://www.pokernews.com/muck/interview-jon-aguiar-retires-from-poker-for-daily-fantasy.htm

    The quote on how he got started at DK is interesting…specifically the last sentence:

    “I started playing on their site about a month after they launched last summer. I was playing a bunch and winning a bunch. I can’t think of what the reason was but I sent an email to support. The reply team actually consisted of one of the founders so we started shooting emails back and forth. It turns out they were in Boston, which is where I am from originally. I made a stop in Boston on the way to the WSOPE for about a week and met that person for some drinks. I never thought I would get involved on that level but was thinking it would be sweet to convince them to modify the way they do things to make it more profitable for me so I met with a group and they were really cool.”

  • ActionJunkie

    @kingofqueens said...

    Regarding the article, I find it alarming that this has already reached a federal level of investigation. Scary times…

    And at the very same time DK (& FD) pull their finishes feed for ranking players.. fishy, fishy. Looks like “investigators” will have to do more work now to see where the $$ is going and who are the “top players” they need to question in the future.

    I’ve been a very passionate salary-cap fantasy player for over a decade now (RIP sporting news salary-cap games) but DFS is starting to scare the hell out of me ever since Ethan’s tweet with ownership #s before games starting… I mean we’ve yet to see any specifics or answers. Only more misdirection and less transparency. *Here’s to hoping these aggressive “spot audits” aren’t a sham and actually get stuff done and push this industry forward.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    “They also said that agents were examining whether the site encouraged and accepted deposits and bets from states where the contests were prohibited. The information under review includes a post by Jon Aguiar, an executive in charge of developing high-volume fantasy players, on a public thread informing players how to deposit funds and play in contests in states and countries where the games are prohibited.”

    Please tell me that the above isn’t true. Aguiar’s reputation has already taken a hit with Madison Calvert’s accusation and now this? Ugh….

  • hustlemania83

    @kaetorade said...

    “They also said that agents were examining whether the site encouraged and accepted deposits and bets from states where the contests were prohibited. The information under review includes a post by Jon Aguiar, an executive in charge of developing high-volume fantasy players, on a public thread informing players how to deposit funds and play in contests in states and countries where the games are prohibited.”

    Please tell me that the above isn’t true. Aguiar’s reputation has already taken a hit with Madison Calvert’s accusation and now this? Ugh….

    What could possibly go wrong when you put professional gamblers in charge of a multi-million dollar gambling website??..hint: It involves Senators, Attorney Generals and the FBI

  • Turn2gold

    @phillygamecox said...

    NY Times is really out for blood, huh?

    Anybody ever see this article from 2013?
    http://www.pokernews.com/muck/interview-jon-aguiar-retires-from-poker-for-daily-fantasy.htm

    The quote on how he got started at DK is interesting…specifically the last sentence:

    “I started playing on their site about a month after they launched last summer. I was playing a bunch and winning a bunch. I can’t think of what the reason was but I sent an email to support. The reply team actually consisted of one of the founders so we started shooting emails back and forth. It turns out they were in Boston, which is where I am from originally. I made a stop in Boston on the way to the WSOPE for about a week and met that person for some drinks. I never thought I would get involved on that level but was thinking it would be sweet to convince them to modify the way they do things to make it more profitable for me so I met with a group and they were really cool.”

    This is my favorite Quote

    “I never thought I would get involved on that level but was thinking it would be sweet to convince them to modify the way they do things to make it more profitable for me so I met with a group and they were really cool”

  • barro

    @phillygamecox said...

    NY Times is really out for blood, huh?

    The story about the FBI was first sited by WSJ so I doubt the NYT cares much.

    All joking aside but this sh** just got real. Casino employees are allowed to play at other casino because it’s gambling and the odds are the same no matter where or when. But since DFS is a game of skill (that is our mantra) having ‘insider information’ could make a difference (i dont think for GPP but if you know a guy plays both sites could be useful if snags their H2H). To the guy with the Wall Street comment the feds arrest and throw in jail hundreds of people for this year you just dont hear about it unless its Martha Stewart.
    I know Ethan from his days here at RG and i dont think he would have done anything wrong but here’s where he could get screwed. DK was very adamant that he does not have access to that info. Well if it turns out he does (even if he did not look at it on that particular week). I could see things getting dicey not necessarily for Ethan but for DK etc.
    The other thing that could happen is the Feds now see how much $$ is really involved which could cause them to want to regulate it (aka: squeeze more $$ out of us and the sites) which could lead to issues (increased rake etc).

  • barro

    @dp47 said...

    I’d be very afraid if I used to buy up entire tournaments & then cancel my entries at the very last second.

    I would also be afraid if I’ve never paid my taxes on my DFS winnings.

  • PJGuin23

    DFS Tax Guru

    @barro said...

    I would also be afraid if I’ve never paid my taxes on my DFS winnings.

    One case DFS makes is they issue 1099s for 3rd party tax reporting. Poker didnt do that. And I think that’s a very strong case.

  • rayofhope

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @Ryazan said...

    Good for them wasting time and money on this when instead maybe they could shift full focus to homeland security and other actual issues. They’re going to look really bad once they find that DK has not done anything wrong.

    You seem way too confident that they’re going to find nothing.. I’d definitely agree it’s the most likely result, but it’s not as if they have no reason to look. Also don’t see why it would make them look bad at all if they come up empty.. if they were only looking at incidents where it was 100% that something bad was going on then they aren’t looking at enough things. and not as if this is going to take a massive amount of resources.

  • WilliamDeBrigham

    Anyways in article it says law said “relative knowledge and skill” Can anybody honestly say knowledge and skill have anything to do with winning large gpp’s that industry has become? It’s more about leverage, I think industry went wrong way with people entering 1000+ lineups as it could not be defended as a game of skill… What could DFS do to make it more a game of skill, but still keep some of the big players happy? It still does take skill to make that many lineups but not sure if much knowledge is needed actually…

  • gencoimports

    NY Times Special Report: Inside the dark world of fantasy sports and other online betting ventures

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/15/us/sports-betting-daily-fantasy-games-fanduel-draftkings.html?emc=edit_na_20151015&nlid=54123377&ref=cta

  • WilliamDeBrigham

    I think industry must change, it might hurt some of the people who make a living off this, but If DFS wants to have any chance of surviving it needs to change imo. The contests are getting too big to defend its not much more than skill and knowledge

  • gencoimports

    @WilliamDeBrigham said...

    Can anybody honestly say knowledge and skill have anything to do with winning large gpp’s that industry has become?

    That’s why I wish they would focus more on cash games where skill is more of a factor.

  • easternmh

    • x3

      Blogger of the Month

    @kaetorade said...

    “They also said that agents were examining whether the site encouraged and accepted deposits and bets from states where the contests were prohibited. The information under review includes a post by Jon Aguiar, an executive in charge of developing high-volume fantasy players, on a public thread informing players how to deposit funds and play in contests in states and countries where the games are prohibited.”

    Please tell me that the above isn’t true. Aguiar’s reputation has already taken a hit with Madison Calvert’s accusation and now this? Ugh….

    Wouldn’t this just be a DK problem and big trouble for aguire? Not necessarily the rest of DFS if true

  • theinnovative

    If nothing is found in the investigation and all legality questions are answered the industry will grow exponentially. Many “scared” casual players will join the dfs wave.

  • WilliamDeBrigham

    Industry Will not survive as it currently is I would be willing to bet. I love DFS but you got to stop kidding with what DFS is becoming its becoming a problem.

  • Crumbs

    @dp47 said...

    I’d be very afraid if I used to buy up entire tournaments & then cancel my entries at the very last second.

    Build better strategies for trying to win a Q

  • rayofhope

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @WilliamDeBrigham said...

    I think industry must change, it might hurt some of the people who make a living off this, but If DFS wants to have any chance of surviving it needs to change imo. The contests are getting too big to defend its not much more than skill and knowledge

    This argument is silly. Just because the % of any one entry to win is very small doesn’t mean you can’t still show skill. It very obviously still exists and can be proven. Plus the fields that you’re even talking about are still only a fraction of the total contests run. The industry might going through some changes, or it might not, but huge contests or multi entry won’t be the catalyst.

    edit: I shouldn’t have responded, this not the thread for that discussion anyway. Thread is about the FBI investigation, talk about that or go into a different thread.

  • rj3494

    This certainly is concerning. If half the allegations on this forum are true and depending on what the FBI finds under the tip of the iceburg I think DFS will go the way of online poker. At the end of the day I think DFS will officially be considered “gambling” instead of a “game of skill.” When that happens, to protect their brands I see MLB, the NFL and NBA getting as far away from DFS as possible. Without their support of the industry I think it dies. DK and FD are not profitable ventures at this point and if you see investors fleeing the scene of the crime (if in fact there are any) we know what happens then. I hope I am wrong because I really enjoy playing.

  • rayofhope

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    It’s worth pointing out that with all the investigations, congressional hearings, and press conferences that pretty much no one is talking about shutting DFS down. They just want it to be run fairly, and even though I’d rather it be run fairly without any assistance from the government, on average it will likely still be a good thing.

  • WilliamDeBrigham

    @rayofhope said...

    This argument is silly. Just because the % of any one entry to win is very small doesn’t mean you can’t still show skill. It very obviously still exists and can be proven. Plus the fields that you’re even talking about are still only a fraction of the total contests run. The industry might going through some changes, or it might not, but huge contests or multi entry won’t be the catalyst.

    its not a small part of DFS, Large tournies are the center part of DFS and 90% of their advertising shows this.

  • barro

    @rj3494 said...

    This certainly is concerning. If half the allegations on this forum are true and depending on what the FBI finds under the tip of the iceburg I think DFS will go the way of online poker. At the end of the day I think DFS will officially be considered “gambling” instead of a “game of skill.” When that happens, to protect their brands I see MLB, the NFL and NBA getting as far away from DFS as possible. Without their support of the industry I think it dies. DK and FD are not profitable ventures at this point and if you see investors fleeing the scene of the crime (if in fact there are any) we know what happens then. I hope I am wrong because I really enjoy playing.

    As long as sponsorship agreements stay in place DFS will have leverage through that (ESPN, NBA, NFL etc) cause that last thing those organization want to come off as is complicate with gambling. Especially the NFL which has only become a finicial animal because of Fantasy (season long and now daily). But if those sponsors start backing out it will be a huge indicator that things are turning sour.

    Might be interesting to see if the deep pocket of the casinos start feeding lobbying dollars to Politicians to help flip DFS to gambling. It would give them a huge edge in that they could then create some sort of DFS game only played in the Casino or on an app in that state (similar to the Poker apps).

  • srolleDFS

    @rayofhope said...

    It’s worth pointing out that with all the investigations, congressional hearings, and press conferences that pretty much no one is talking about shutting DFS down. They just want it to be run fairly, and even though I’d rather it be run fairly without any assistance from the government, on average it will likely still be a good thing.

    “The Department of Justice reportedly is looking into whether daily fantasy sports is a form of gambling. Daily fantasy operators have been persistent about it being a game of skill and point to language in the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 in regards to their legality.”

    if dfs is gambling and not a game of skill (as defined legally) that is game over at the state level in a many (most?) states.

  • jlowery73

    2012 DDC Main Event Champion

    • 2014 FAFC Finalist

    • x3

      2015 FACFC Finalist

    Meanwhile lotteries are hitting absurd levels and new casinos are popping up seemingly daily in the United States.

    Lovely.

  • qutgnt25

    If daily fantasy is considered gambling then so is season long and it all should be shut down. Then see the uproar. In the best interest of all parties just clean the crap up fast and make everything transparent before it’s too late.

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