NHL FORUM

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  • pokerrob1970

    DraftDay BLB Finalist

    So it’s once again time for the annual what are sites doing with their NHL product this year thread. FD has talked about either removing or at worst reducing the value of +/- along with the removal of positive points for penalties. As of right now they appear to be the same as last year. On DK they made a roster change in MLB that limited people to a max of 5 batters in a lineup. Is that going into effect in NHL as well? (no more than 5 skaters per team)

  • julieduke33

    So will a Colorado vs Calgary game be like coors field in MLB???

  • julieduke33

    @maxeernst said...

    Because all the scoring is x4 dude. Old 2 pt difference and new 8 pt difference basically the same.

    Yeah except for pp bonus and plus /minus it is just 4x…it’s funny I believe the original reason for the pp bonus is because players don’t get a plus minus on a PP goal so PP goal actually was worth less than even strength goal last year..now pp goal worth more..that’s just plain backwards…do they think when making these decisions???

  • dude_abides7

    I like how saahilsud was registered into the FD NHL contests the nano-second they went live for the first time this year. But yeah, nothing to see here….

  • dude_abides7

    @julieduke33 said...

    do they think when making these decisions???

    No

  • maxeernst

    @julieduke33 said...

    Yeah except for pp bonus and plus /minus it is just 4x…it’s funny I believe the original reason for the pp bonus is because players don’t get a plus minus so pp goal actually worth less than even strength goal last year..now pp goal worth more..that’s just plain backwards…do they think when making these decisions???

    I’m opening myself up here if any of my math is wrong (lol), but I believe it works out as follows:

    Previously: PP goal: 3.5pts, ES goal: 4pts (3+1 for +/-). ES goal worth ~14% more.

    Now: PP goal: 12.5pts, ES goal: 12 pts. PP goal worth ~4% more.

    If they had 4x PP bonus: PP goal:14 pts, ES goal: 12 pts, PP goal worth ~17% more.

    ^^ this calculation applies to what they did for SH goals now.

    Had they gone 4x on PP bonus, would have been 31% shift. New Scoring is 18% shift.

  • dude_abides7

    @julieduke33 said...

    So will a Colorado vs Calgary game be like coors field in MLB???

    Without plus/minus you’ll just have guys stacking both sides of the same game and unilaterally ignoring the other 3-8 games on the slate. This is just great…I can’t wait.

    Of course, this benefits the guy playing 200 LU’s a night. It hurts the core +ev player not looking capture every scenario but hone in on the most likely and smarter plays.

    To say that NHL’s +/- stats are inaccurate as a reason for removing them is a complete smokescreen. They want to open up NHL more to the “spray and pray” player that is running MME. This will increase prize pools, this will allow them to increase rake. Product enjoyment goes to shit….unless you part of the .01% of players maxing out entry limits every night.

  • Duck911

    @julieduke33 said...

    I guess block shots won’t be a big factor but I never played DK so I don’t know…

    I think it is a big factor. Removing +/- from Beauchemin’s FD scoring last year makes less than a .1 (“tenth) point difference in his fppg ( minus 7 points for the year, total). Assume he has the same number of blocked shots from last year THIS year, and the blocked shots adds 4.99 fppg – hundreds of points to his yearly total. No +/- and 1.6 points per blocked shots fundamentally will change the way at least I pick D men.

  • julieduke33

    @dude_abides7 said...

    Without plus/minus you’ll just have guys stacking both sides of the same game and unilaterally ignoring the other 3-8 games on the slate. This is just great…I can’t wait.

    Of course, this benefits the guy playing 200 LU’s a night. It hurts the core +ev player not looking capture every scenario but hone in on the most likely and smarter plays.

    To say that NHL’s +/- stats are inaccurate as a reason for removing them is a complete smokescreen. They want to open up NHL more to the “spray and pray” player that is running MME. This will increase prize pools, this will allow them to increase rake. Product enjoyment goes to shit….unless you part of the .01% of players maxing out entry limits every night.

    Unfortunately I agree with your take…mass entry will stack every game like in MLB and hope one hits…

  • BlacknBlue

    I seem to be in the minority, but I like that they include block shots. Although it primarily helps defenseman, I like how it differentiates the forwards. You don’t see Patrick Kane getting in the shooting lanes very often (or the corners for that matter). It is nice to have the forwards, that get it done on both ends given at least a small DFS bump (Like Kesler or Nielsen).

  • julieduke33

    @Duck911 said...

    I think it is a big factor. Removing +/- from Beauchemin’s FD scoring last year makes less than a .1 (“tenth) point difference in his fppg (7 points for the year, total). Assume he has the same number of blocked shots from last year THIS year, and the blocked shots adds 4.99 fppg – hundreds of points to his yearly total. No +/ and 1.6 points per blocked shots fundamentally will change the way at least I pick D men.

    I was actually just asking since I never played with blocked shots and your take makes sense…beauchemin gets hit in the back 5 times bet blocked shot points is on ice for 5 Goals…who cares..

  • Duck911

    Fair points above dude and julie, but on the flip side losing the +/- significantly decreases correlation between linemates, especially the non-scoring linemates on a scoring line. I think/hope this will open the door for savvy players to really look for scoring value instead of just stacking full lines.

    I may be wrong. Time will tell.

  • julieduke33

    I’m guessing with Roy out in Colorado at least they won’t pull the goalie at the start of 3rd when losing.. man did those points rack up when he did that…

  • julieduke33

    @Duck911 said...

    Fair points above dude and julie, but on the flip side losing the +/- significantly decreases correlation between linemates, especially the non-scoring linemates on a scoring line. I think/hope this will open the door for savvy players to really look for scoring value instead of just stacking full lines.

    I may be wrong. Time will tell.

    Possibly and I hope you’re right ( I don’t fullline stack for the most part) but if you stack both sides of a 6-5 game you re going to have most of the points anyway unless all 3rd liners score..

  • dude_abides7

    @Duck911 said...

    Fair points above dude and julie, but on the flip side losing the +/- significantly decreases correlation between linemates, especially the non-scoring linemates on a scoring line. I think/hope this will open the door for savvy players to really look for scoring value instead of just stacking full lines.

    Or they will just stack the PP and be wrongly rewarded for it. SMH

  • julieduke33

    @BlacknBlue said...

    I seem to be in the minority, but I like that they include block shots. Although it primarily helps defenseman, I like how it differentiates the forwards. You don’t see Patrick Kane getting in the shooting lanes very often (or the corners for that matter). It is nice to have the forwards, that get it done on both ends given at least a small DFS bump (Like Kesler or Nielsen).

    I don’t mind blocked shots I guess at least it will differentiate scoring …it’s the plus minus I wish they kept and I’m probably in the minority on that…

  • dude_abides7

    @julieduke33 said...

    but if you stack both sides of a 6-5 game you re going to have most of the points anyway unless all 3rd liners score..

    This is gonna be the winner every night. Especially if the lines that go off are also on the PP together.

    Ruined the product. Ruined.

  • B_Edelman

    @dude_abides7 said...

    I like how saahilsud was registered into the FD NHL contests the nano-second they went live for the first time this year.

    The interesting thing is that he really only played NHL the first couple of slates last year. And that was only on DK.

  • julieduke33

    Pp goal worth more than a even strength is just awful..they did adjust MLB scoring early in season cuz of complaints…maybe they will do the same for NHL..doubt it though…nobody cares about us NHL guys…haha…

  • wisertime

    @maxeernst said...

    Because all the scoring is x4 dude. Old 2 pt difference and new 8 pt difference basically the same.

    fair enough. I get it. evidentally I ain’t the sharpest twig on the branch

  • dude_abides7

    @B_Edelman said...

    The interesting thing is that he really only played NHL the first couple of slates last year. And that was only on DK.

    The interesting thing is that he likely didn’t even enter the day 1 contests I referenced…his computer program did.

  • yountingly

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    @dude_abides7 said...

    Or they will just stack the PP and be wrongly rewarded for it. SMH

    That was my thoughts. Without +/- to worry about, you stack the top PP line and not have to worry about any minuses.

    First look at pricing looks soft at the top. Just looking near the top of the various positions.

  • maxeernst

    @wisertime said...

    fair enough. I get it. evidentally I ain’t the sharpest twig on the branch

    It’s okay. This is a safe space. You are welcome :)

  • julieduke33

    Well I hated the MLB changes and not a big fan of getting rid of plus/minus and the PP fiasco , so oh well , I guess the masses like higher scoring games and the sites love the mass entry guys…little guy loses again but guess I’ll have to deal with it..

  • dude_abides7

    @julieduke33 said...

    Well I hated the MLB changes and not a big fan of getting rid of plus/minus and the PP fiasco , so oh well , I guess the masses like higher scoring games and the sites love the mass entry guys…little guy loses again but guess I’ll have to deal with it..

    I am trying to remove my personal preferences from my reactions but I keep coming back to the same point.

    Removing plus/minus basically forces the casual or mid-level player to cover 2x as many scenarios to compensate for the heavy MME guy that will play everything.

    I will be focusing my play on league and single entry. You can have your 150 LU GPP.

  • julieduke33

    I just keep going back to MLB and remembering the night the GPP winning LU was a phillies team stack against mad bum…

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