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  • pacerfan07

    Hi,

    I was looking at the Recent Results page for some of the Rotogrinder writer/moderator profiles. I noticed that the all of the recent results are really good. So I hopped over to the DBResults page and noticed that all the losing results are omitted from the Recent Results page. Why is this? Shouldn’t the header be labeled “Recent Winnings” instead of “Recent Results” so as to not be misleading?

    For example:
    On bhdevault’s Draftkings NBA “Recent Results” his worst finish on October 26th was 32594 out of 132678.
    https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/bhdevault/game-results?site=draftkings&sport=nba&type=recent-results

    Yet if you go into that same contest results for October 26th and filter by user “bhdevault” he had 11 other entries below 32,597th place which don’t show up on the link above.
    https://rotogrinders.com/contest-results/47573310

    If anyone could help clarify why it’s called Recent Results instead of Recent Winnings I’d appreciate it.

    Thanks!

  • emac

    You will want to look at the nuances of the RG Rankings calculations.

    A couple things that often get overlooked is that they count finishes in the top 20% of a specific contest (32,594 of 132,678 would be 24.6% and below the cutoff).

    Your best scoring entry in a contest that qualifies is the one that gets “counted” in the rankings score, even though all of your “qualifying” scores will appear in your results history – so if you had 20 entries in a contest and 12 finished with a cash in the 20%ile or higher – just the highest scoring entry will be counted in your “rankings” totals.

    The FAQs cover a lot of the basics (and again, some of it is quite nuanced, particularly when you get to the multi-sport modifiers).

    FAQs

    More FAQs

    Overall it is a fun “directionally” correct rankings system (it does not take into account profitability nor “cash” games such as H2H and 50/50s, etc.)

    EMac

  • pacerfan07

    Thanks, I understand the Ranking system, but I’m getting tripped up as to why it’s labeled “Recent Results” instead of “Recent Winnings” For comparison, if the Baltimore Ravens season was listed the same way on the Recent Results, it would look like the following and I’d think they are 9-0 this season.

    Sep. 10 at Cincinnati Bengals 1:00pm ET Won 20-0
    Sep. 17 Cleveland Browns 1:00pm ET Won 24-10
    Oct. 8 at Oakland Raiders 4:05pm ET Won 30-17
    Oct. 26 Miami Dolphins 8:25pm ET Won 40-0
    Nov. 19 at Green Bay Packers 1:00pm ET Won 23-0
    Nov. 27 Houston Texans 8:30pm ET Won 23-16
    Dec. 3 Detroit Lions 1:00pm ET Won 44-20
    Dec. 17 at Cleveland Browns 1:00pm ET Won 27-10
    Dec. 23 Indianapolis Colts 4:30pm ET Won 23-16

    It would be so awesome if the rankings page took the average fantasy points scored for everyone who has participated in a defined minimum amount of slates this year. You’d have to split it into GPP and 50/50 rankings though since the strategies are different. It’s totally possible since all the data is being captured in the ResultsDB page. Then we could hone in on the guy averaging 270 NBA DK points instead of someone else averaging 250.

  • bigez952

    @pacerfan07 said...

    Thanks, I understand the Ranking system, but I’m getting tripped up as to why it’s labeled “Recent Results” instead of “Recent Winnings” For comparison, if the Baltimore Ravens season was listed the same way on the Recent Results, it would look like the following and I’d think they are 9-0 this season.

    Sep. 10 at Cincinnati Bengals 1:00pm ET Won 20-0
    Sep. 17 Cleveland Browns 1:00pm ET Won 24-10
    Oct. 8 at Oakland Raiders 4:05pm ET Won 30-17
    Oct. 26 Miami Dolphins 8:25pm ET Won 40-0
    Nov. 19 at Green Bay Packers 1:00pm ET Won 23-0
    Nov. 27 Houston Texans 8:30pm ET Won 23-16
    Dec. 3 Detroit Lions 1:00pm ET Won 44-20
    Dec. 17 at Cleveland Browns 1:00pm ET Won 27-10
    Dec. 23 Indianapolis Colts 4:30pm ET Won 23-16

    It would be so awesome if the rankings page took the average fantasy points scored for everyone who has participated in a defined minimum amount of slates this year. You’d have to split it into GPP and 50/50 rankings though since the strategies are different. It’s totally possible since all the data is being captured in the ResultsDB page. Then we could hone in on the guy averaging 270 NBA DK points instead of someone else averaging 250.

    I am sure they only take the top 20% of finishes in GPP’s higher than a $5000 prize pool as the high volume guys are playing 1000+ lineups on a given day and it would be a data collection overload to try and track every piece of data for every user. At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter what it is called as they have the criteria of what gets track fairly easy to locate.

    The rankings system does nothing to show how good of a player is and it is a much better indicator of who plays the highest stakes or highest volume. If you had millions to blow you could just max enter every contest on the site and lose a ton of money but still are going to be ranked in the top 10 just on pure volume alone.

    The results DB page only tracks 1-5 of the biggest GPP tournaments from the slate and is only a fraction of the data of all the other games that are offered that users may have action in so even averaging out that data wouldn’t really tell you anything useful. There is no way they can pull in everything included cash games as that would again be data overload.

  • ttucowboy84

    • 602

      RG Overall Ranking

    Is anyone aware of a current delay in results showing? Quite a bit of my recent results aren’t showing on my profile.

  • thehazyone

    RG Contributor

    • Blogger of the Month

    @ttucowboy84 said...

    Is anyone aware of a current delay in results showing? Quite a bit of my recent results aren’t showing on my profile.

    shouldn’t be more than a day or two behind ever – e-mail results@rotogrinders.com and they’ll be happy to look into it (include links to applicable contests).

  • thehazyone

    RG Contributor

    • Blogger of the Month

    @bigez952 said...

    I am sure they only take the top 20% of finishes in GPP’s higher than a $5000 prize pool as the high volume guys are playing 1000+ lineups on a given day and it would be a data collection overload to try and track every piece of data for every user. At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter what it is called as they have the criteria of what gets track fairly easy to locate.

    The rankings system does nothing to show how good of a player is and it is a much better indicator of who plays the highest stakes or highest volume. If you had millions to blow you could just max enter every contest on the site and lose a ton of money but still are going to be ranked in the top 10 just on pure volume alone.

    The results DB page only tracks 1-5 of the biggest GPP tournaments from the slate and is only a fraction of the data of all the other games that are offered that users may have action in so even averaging out that data wouldn’t really tell you anything useful. There is no way they can pull in everything included cash games as that would again be data overload.

    While true generally speaking, I think you paint it with too broad a brush. There are plenty of lower stakes players ranked in the top 500 of their sports that should be considered good (humble brag, I am #315 in NFL despite typically playing $500 volume a week). There are definitely losing players at the top of the rankings but on the same token some of those players are also massive winners.

    I’m also the person that manually imports all the DK contests so I will agree with the last statement “there is no way they can pull in everything” – I think I’d go jump off a bridge if we did ha ha.

  • jetsfan303

    I’m seeing stuff from Draftkings from Friday not showing which is sort of unusual by now. Per the FAQ I figured I’d wait until it hits a week. Never had an issue with Draftkings results before.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @jetsfan303 said...

    I’m seeing stuff from Draftkings from Friday not showing which is sort of unusual by now. Per the FAQ I figured I’d wait until it hits a week. Never had an issue with Draftkings results before.

    Hazy may be working on his next incredible NFL article.

  • bigez952

    @thehazyone said...

    While true generally speaking, I think you paint it with too broad a brush. There are plenty of lower stakes players ranked in the top 500 of their sports that should be considered good (humble brag, I am #315 in NFL despite typically playing $500 volume a week). There are definitely losing players at the top of the rankings but on the same token some of those players are also massive winners.

    Your’re correct in that is an unfair statement to say the rankings do nothing to show who the good players are. I would imagine even a multi-millionaire would eventually get sick of bleeding money to DFS and quit so it would be a fairly safe bet to say the guys who have been near the top consistently for the last 4-5 years are probably doing fairly well or at least are not losing players.

    No system can be perfect and I can only imagine the amount of data you have to pull in and audit which is why it makes sense that only a few select GPP’s are brought into the results DB and there is the criteria to not count everything for rankings.

  • pacerfan07

    It does seem cumbersome to pull in all the data for every contest. But let’s focus on the ones that are already pulled into the ResultsDB every night. These are already capturing every single lineup of for every single player in those contests. So the data is already there. Now I’d just like for Rotogrinders to take that data and show how many points the players are averaging. So for example, I’d look up chipotleaddict and can see how many DK points he averages on the season when playing in large pool contests (over 20k). If he’s averaging 250, then he’s a pretty average player. If he’s averaging 265 then more stock can be put into his strategy and help us all get better.

    Once again, the data is already there for the large pool contests. If it was exportable to Excel (which is where it comes from in the first place) I could easily do this on my own. Otherwise DK forces you to play in all the contests in order to be able to get the Excel file each night.

  • Ross
    @pacerfan07 said...

    Otherwise DK forces you to play in all the contests in order to be able to get the Excel file each night.

    DK has an option to view and download any live contest. In the DK lobby you just need to select a sport then click the “View Live Contests” button.

  • bigez952

    @pacerfan07 said...

    If he’s averaging 250, then he’s a pretty average player. If he’s averaging 265 then more stock can be put into his strategy and help us all get better.

    This is an untrue statement for the guys who mass multi enter. They don’t care about their average of their 150 lineups as long as they can get 5-10 lineups into the top 0.1% as most GPP’s are extremely top heavy. These guys will cover so many different combos it would be impossible for everyone to go off so their average is probably going to lower than some guys who single entry every night but they will be much more profitable because they have a handful of top 10 finishes every month for a 100-1000X cash vs. a higher % of 2X cashes. The only mass multi entry tournaments where an average score would have any value at all would be the giant double up tournaments which no data is brought in.

    I think that data would be very misleading and probably show that all of the most successful players really are not that good based on average when they are actually highly profitable due to how much more valuable a GPP win is over someone who may only be 30-40 points lower but only double their entry. You could average 250 but have 1 lineup out of 150 hit 360 for the win and destroy someone in terms of profitability who has 10 lineups who averaged 285 but it was a much tighter grouping so their top score was only 305 or something like that.

  • pacerfan07

    @Ross said...

    DK has an option to view and download any live contest. In the DK lobby you just need to select a sport then click the “View Live Contests” button.

    Thanks! How long does that stay up for? Does it disappear immediately after the last game is over? I’d like to download the final results instead of just the current results because I want to figure out who actually averages the most points over the long run. That would truly be the best DFS player.

  • bigez952

    @pacerfan07 said...

    Thanks! How long does that stay up for? Does it disappear immediately after the last game is over? I’d like to download the final results instead of just the current results because I want to figure out who actually averages the most points over the long run. That would truly be the best DFS player.

    If your going to go through the work to pull all that data by yourself you should look at profitability calculate money won – cost of entries for the top pros who put in 150 lineups into everything. That data side by side would be a much better indicator of who is truly better as I can guarantee not one of them cares about having a low average if they can win 5-10 GPP’s in a season.

  • jmo26

    @jetsfan303 said...

    I’m seeing stuff from Draftkings from Friday not showing which is sort of unusual by now. Per the FAQ I figured I’d wait until it hits a week. Never had an issue with Draftkings results before.

    Mine’s behind by about a week as well, suspected it had to do with it being the new year and perhaps waiting to reset TPOY (also very rare for me that it isn’t updated within a day or two).

    As for this focus on average points per night, bigez is spot on. Average points mean nothing if you’re a tournament player (I could see how it might be useful for those who predominantly play cash, but these rankings are for tournament play). You’re not looking to just hit the cash line with these super top heavy contests, you’re looking to get in the Top 10; that often requires taking chances on volatile players to differentiate, which might bring your average score down, but provides a better opportunity to take down a GPP.

  • pacerfan07

    I’ve pulled about 1 months worth of data for the big $8 GPP DK has every night (sometimes it’s $10). Then after averaging everyone’s score I had Excel count how many entries each person had. I filtered out anyone with less than a 1,000 entries.

    I disagree that playing more and trying to get a top 10 finish every now and then results in more profitability. They may get a 100 to 1000x cash occasionally but what was the cost of that? The cost was playing a bazillion lineups every night trying to get the combo right (and lowering your scoring average). Most mass entry players seem to be losing 100 to 1000x cash at a higher rate than they are winning 100 to 1000x cash.

    Basically, I want to find the players that can consistently put up higher scores than anyone else. I’m only playing 5 to 10 lineups a night. If you’re constantly putting up 200 point lineups, what do I care if you occasionally score 350 every now and then? All that tells me is that you score low so often that it actually drags your scoring average down a huge amount.

  • bigez952

    @pacerfan07 said...

    Basically, I want to find the players that can consistently put up higher scores than anyone else. I’m only playing 5 to 10 lineups a night. If you’re constantly putting up 200 point lineups, what do I care if you occasionally score 350 every now and then? All that tells me is that you score low so often that it actually drags your scoring average down a huge amount.

    It sounds like you should stick to cash games or look at single entry GPP’s only as you have no clue why the top pros enter 150 lineups into a GPP. They do it to collect wins not to try and get all 150 lineups to cash.

    For the NFL if you can put up 150 every single week you will do well and hit a lot of 1.5-3X cashes in GPP’s. However some of these guys putting 150 lineups into a contest might only average 140 but have a 2% of their lineups hit 200+ with maybe 0.1% hit 230+ which might be enough to take down the millionaire maker worth 50,000X (it takes a lot of 1.5X cashes to match that 1 lineup). 100 out of 100 pros would rather have a low average and GPP wins vs. a high average by playing it safe (chalk plays) but never sniff the top of a GPP leaderboard.

    The approach your looking at is good for 50/50 and double up’s to consistently try to hit a high average but isn’t the best strategy for being a successful multi lineup GPP player.

  • tom14cat14

    This is a very interesting discussion. I would love to see info on who actually wins (profits) consistently both cash and GPP. If you win on take a top 10 in GPP you definitely do not have to have the majority of lineups cash. It would be interesting to see how many people blow their big win chasing the next win vs who consistently pull in top cash.

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