CBB FORUM

Comments

  • slayeratcp

    Looking at the matchups – there are a ton of games that have big tempo difference between teams. Do you guys lean toward the favored team to dictate tempo of a game more or do you kind of average the pace between the teams?

  • mooseHAMMER78

    • Moderator

    I have asked this question time and time again. I have never received a good answer. Nor have I ever been able to find Stats on this.

  • Greenmonstah

    TGIF….Day of rest, as its the calm before the Saturday Storm of options.

  • milktruck

    Generally I’ve been targeting the team that gets the tempo boost regardless of being favored — unless it looks like a blowout situation. So Texas, for example.

  • bbjay20

    Without any stats handy, just from watching games, I feel like the teams that slow the game down have the ability to do so against faster paced teams. They like to muddy it up. I’m guessing the pace will lean towards slower, but that doesn’t mean guys won’t hit value or whatnot.

    I think looking at efficiency might be a good way to go about these games.

  • Greenmonstah

    Teams tempo can change from week to week, based on certain circumstances, however, knowledge is the key to that question, hence why homework is so important…may not always work, but can give you a bit of an edge on your competition….no doubt!

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @Greenmonstah said...

    TGIF….Day of rest, as its the calm before the Saturday Storm of options.

    This. Fridays are always nice to take a break. No desire to even look at a 13 game NBA schedule after all the chaos of the trade deadline.

    As for the tempo question, I’d generally look at the team getting the tempo boost. For the most part, teams will usually try to play their style. So a slower paced team should get a few more possessions against a faster paced team, regardless of who really “controls” the pace.

  • DubDeuces85

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    This. Fridays are always nice to take a break. No desire to even look at a 13 game NBA schedule after all the chaos of the trade deadline.

    As for the tempo question, I’d generally look at the team getting the tempo boost. For the most part, teams will usually try to play their style. So a slower paced team should get a few more possessions against a faster paced team, regardless of who really “controls” the pace.

    I agree with this. I usually look to the slower team getting the tempo boost because of increased possessions. Ultimately, you want those extra possessions to to increase your probability of obtaining more stats. For example, you wouldn’t really want to use Duke so much against Clemson as you would against a team like Cuse, UNC, etc.

  • DubDeuces85

    BTW-

    Jahlil Okafor is in a walking boot today so that’s a situation to monitor. Matchup isn’t the greatest against Clemson, but that is a lot of minutes to go around for the other guys for sure.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @DubDeuces85 said...

    BTW-

    Jahlil Okafor is in a walking boot today so that’s a situation to monitor. Matchup isn’t the greatest against Clemson, but that is a lot of minutes to go around for the other guys for sure.

    Sounds like he will play. Walking boot is precautionary. Said there isn’t really any pain. But definitely a situation to monitor. He definitely was hobbled while he continued to play against UNC on Wednesday night.

    Marshall Plumlee would see the biggest uptick in minutes if for some reason Okafor doesn’t play. Duke has no depth, especially in the frontcourt, so he would almost be forced to play 25+ minutes. I doubt Duke would go small for a majority of the game, but could use Jefferson at the 5, Winslow at the 4, and Jones at the 3, while playing a lot of zone defense at times.

  • TooBigYo20

    All the Stainbrook Saturday. This is Xavier’s biggest rival regardless of what anyone says. They need this W to get into the dance. The shitty Cintas center will be rocking and without Chrabs, Butler going to struggle inside.

    15/10/5 not out of Q tomorrow
    And for the record, I’m a huge Butler fan that hates X fans

  • DubDeuces85

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    Sounds like he will play. Walking boot is precautionary. Said there isn’t really any pain. But definitely a situation to monitor. He definitely was hobbled while he continued to play against UNC on Wednesday night.

    Marshall Plumlee would see the biggest uptick in minutes if for some reason Okafor doesn’t play. Duke has no depth, especially in the frontcourt, so he would almost be forced to play 25+ minutes. I doubt Duke would go small for a majority of the game.

    Clemsons front court would punish them if they did go small. They’ve got capable post players, no doubt.
    The game is not really on my radar but definitely keeping it in mind just in case.

    Even tho it’s a large slate, I’m sort of breaking it down a bit to a handful that I really like.

    Pitts-Cuse rematch is pure gold. I’ll be heavily targeting that one. Also like Ga Tech against UNC and the Ark-Miss State game. Large slate and %‘s should be fairly balanced.

  • slayeratcp

    For tempo, I get looking at the teams that get a boost in tempo but my question is more about what do you view as the overall game tempo when a large tempo variance exists between teams.

    So, for example, Wisconsin is a very slow tempo team. If they play a team with a high tempo that is pretty good and bound to keep it close (let’s say North Carolina), would you project the overall game pace somewhere in between the two teams? Whereas if Wisconsin played USC, who is also a high tempo but terrible, would Wisconsin dictate pace and keep it closer to their average?

  • TooBigYo20

    I think looking at tempo alone is a flawed theory. You have to be able to combine a few things. First you have to look at Vegas’ over under. Obviously this should be reflected in a two high tempo teams but say you take a Utah v. North Carolina. You have to compare Utah’s average o/u’s to say one with a large increase. If the O/U is say a 3 pt difference, you really aren’t gaining much.

    It shocked me to see people use Utah/OSU guys last night. That game was so slow along with a super low o/u

    Next you have to look at recent competition from the team getting the boost and how they have fared against an increase in tempo. So did they score more points, was it about the same. Did they truly get more possessions. This is where Kenpom is so huge.

    For me, my #1 factor in determining plays from a game is ranking the pace/over under’s then looking at teams that have very short rotations. To me, Minutes = opportunity = points. I am a sucker for guys that are also chuckers. Give me a guy at 25 minutes that shoots 10 times a game or guy at 40 minutes that shoots 3. I’ll take the chucker.

    I am actually writing a top 10 things to look at when starting CBB that will be up soon

  • TooBigYo20

    Another good example last night is TJ McConnell.

    You either faded and it worked out or you played him based on box score looking. I did the 2nd but also failed to take in to consideration a few things. AZ was a TWENTY ONE point favorite. With this, could he really reach value if they covered. A buddy tried to tell me over and over to fade, but I didn’t listen. In games like that, Tarc and a few others are great value options, which worked out last night.
    But the point being, you could have box score looked at McConnell and said autoplay which over 45% did in the DK Bankshot. Or you could have analyzed the matchup, realized it would have been a correct fade, and done well

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @slayeratcp said...

    For tempo, I get looking at the teams that get a boost in tempo but my question is more about what do you view as the overall game tempo when a large tempo variance exists between teams.

    So, for example, Wisconsin is a very slow tempo team. If they play a team with a high tempo that is pretty good and bound to keep it close (let’s say North Carolina), would you project the overall game pace somewhere in between the two teams? Whereas if Wisconsin played USC, who is also a high tempo but terrible, would Wisconsin dictate pace and keep it closer to their average?

    Personally I don’t really look at OVERALL tempo of the game. To me it’s more about “tempo up” vs “tempo down.”

    So in your example of Wisconsin vs UNC, I would like Wisconsin a lot in that matchup because they are facing a “tempo up” situation. So even though I don’t believe Wisconsin is going to run more or play outside their normal pace, they should see a few more possessions over their average simply due to the fact that North Carolina plays at a faster pace/tempo and will often take shots earlier in the shot clock.

    The same would work in reverse where I wouldn’t like UNC as much in a “tempo down” situation. But again, tempo is a just a piece of the puzzle. I still have to like a player’s price/consistency/upside. So if I see Nigel Hayes sitting at 6500 facing North Carolina, I would already like him at that price, but would like him even more in a “tempo up” situation and likely lock him into most of my lineups. But if Hayes is priced at 8000 or more, I’m likely not using him regardless of matchup. That’s just how I look at things…

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @TooBigYo20 said...

    Another good example last night is TJ McConnell.

    You either faded and it worked out or you played him based on box score looking. I did the 2nd but also failed to take in to consideration a few things. AZ was a TWENTY ONE point favorite. With this, could he really reach value if they covered. A buddy tried to tell me over and over to fade, but I didn’t listen. In games like that, Tarc and a few others are great value options, which worked out last night.
    But the point being, you could have box score looked at McConnell and said autoplay which over 45% did in the DK Bankshot. Or you could have analyzed the matchup, realized it would have been a correct fade, and done well

    The biggest factor that hurt McConnell last night was the return of Parker Jackson-Cartwright in my opinion. I read that he was doubtful to play and that’s why I locked McConnell into about half my lineups. Without Jackson-Cartwright, Arizona lacked another true PG (York and Pitts took some time there), and McConnell was going to play heavy minutes regardless of the blowout.

    Beat Washington State by 27- McConnell plays 29 minutes and puts up 14 pts, 8 assists, 5 rebs, 3 steals

    Beat Washington by 24- McConnell plays 31 minutes and puts up 10 pts, 10 assists, 5 rebounds, 3 steals

    Beat Oregon State by 23 (extremely slow tempo)- McConnell plays 30 minutes and puts up 7 pts, 6 assists, 4 rebs, with EIGHT steals.

    McConnell only played 19 minutes last night in the blowout, but I think a lot of that had to do with Jackson-Cartwright returning and taking on 16 minutes at PG. This also hurt my value play of Gabe York who had been locked into 25-30 minutes the last few games. Although his 1 for 6 shooting last night didn’t help regardless.

  • TooBigYo20

    All the news out there said Cartwright would have been lucky to play 5-10 mins. Even Az forums.
    Think it was more coach finally getting smart n resting his horses for the stretch

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @TooBigYo20 said...

    All the news out there said Cartwright would have been lucky to play 5-10 mins. Even Az forums.
    Think it was more coach finally getting smart n resting his horses for the stretch

    Also maybe true, as Sean Miller has let his starters out there pretty long in blowouts in the past. Arizona also turns around and plays Saturday night against UCLA. Not to mention it was an opportunity to get Jackson-Cartwright some extended run after missing 4 games. They will likely want him to spell McConnell a couple minutes each half come tournament time.

  • migsrgr8

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    Personally I don’t really look at OVERALL tempo of the game. To me it’s more about “tempo up” vs “tempo down.”

    So in your example of Wisconsin vs UNC, I would like Wisconsin a lot in that matchup because they are facing a “tempo up” situation. So even though I don’t believe Wisconsin is going to run more or play outside their normal pace, they should see a few more possessions over their average simply due to the fact that North Carolina plays at a faster pace/tempo and will often take shots earlier in the shot clock.

    The same would work in reverse where I wouldn’t like UNC as much in a “tempo down” situation. But again, tempo is a just a piece of the puzzle. I still have to like a player’s price/consistency/upside. So if I see Nigel Hayes sitting at 6500 facing North Carolina, I would already like him at that price, but would like him even more in a “tempo up” situation and likely lock him into most of my lineups. But if Hayes is priced at 8000 or more, I’m likely not using him regardless of matchup. That’s just how I look at things…

    I like to look @ it similarly, opponents tempo up or tempo down.

    I also like to pair it w/ Kenpom’s defensive efficiency. Helps adjust some of the higher tempo teams like AZ & Oklahoma who play fast, but can be bad-ass defensively.

  • eforsty

    Will never understand why it takes so long for Fanduel to get their tournaments up, only 5 “tournaments” only 2 non double up with less than 24 hours before games start?

  • Greenmonstah

    What’s worse, is that EVERY time I check the 3-man $109 tourney on FD, Sox22 is already in it….Time for some new blood!

  • bbjay20

    @eforsty said...

    Will never understand why it takes so long for Fanduel to get their tournaments up, only 5 “tournaments” only 2 non double up with less than 24 hours before games start?

    Plus they leave games out instead of breaking the day into multiple tourneys (ie no St Johns/Seton Hall in the early Saturday tourneys). DK at least has gone with tourneys at Noon, 4 and 6 to break up the day better while FD just does Noon and 6, and leaves games out.

  • julieduke33

    @TooBigYo20 said...

    Another good example last night is TJ McConnell.

    You either faded and it worked out or you played him based on box score looking. I did the 2nd but also failed to take in to consideration a few things. AZ was a TWENTY ONE point favorite. With this, could he really reach value if they covered. A buddy tried to tell me over and over to fade, but I didn’t listen. In games like that, Tarc and a few others are great value options, which worked out last night.
    But the point being, you could have box score looked at McConnell and said autoplay which over 45% did in the DK Bankshot. Or you could have analyzed the matchup, realized it would have been a correct fade, and done well

    The one thing about McConnell that threw me off was he played 32 minutes against wazzu and they were up 34 at half so I figured he’d play the same like you did but what I failed to realize was that the back up point guard was coming back from injury so they wanted to get him all the minutes he could handle… Jefferson, Ashley and Johnson all played big minutes

  • julieduke33

    @julieduke33 said...

    The one thing about McConnell that threw me off was he played 32 minutes against wazzu and they were up 34 at half so I figured he’d play the same like you did but what I failed to realize was that the back up point guard was coming back from injury so they wanted to get him all the minutes he could handle… Jefferson, Ashley and Johnson all played big minutes

    I didn’t read ahead sorry this was pointed out by stewburt….

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @bbjay20 said...

    Plus they leave games out instead of breaking the day into multiple tourneys (ie no St Johns/Seton Hall in the early Saturday tourneys). DK at least has gone with tourneys at Noon, 4 and 6 to break up the day better while FD just does Noon and 6, and leaves games out.

    The main reason they do this is to try to settle in on a maximum of 15 game slates for the EARLY slate per a Fanduel rep I had a discussion with. Personally, I like this approach. Anything more than 15 games gets to be too overwhelming in my opinion.

    It does result in a few games getting cut. They seem to include any top 25 game (13 of them between 12 and 4). So by including those 13, it allowed for 2 more games between the 12 and 4 time slot (Pitt/Syracuse, Florida/LSU).

    Late slate starts at 6:30 (generally not a lot of games starting between 4:30 and 6 that get cut) and runs through the end of the night. Personally, I like how FD has handled Saturdays this season.

  • X Unread Thread
  • X Thread with New Replies*
  • *Jumps to your first unread reply

Subforum Index

RotoGrinders.com is the home of the daily fantasy sports community. Our content, rankings, member blogs, promotions and forum discussion all cater to the players that like to create a new fantasy team every day of the week.

If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL). Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (NJ/WV/PA/MI), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (CO), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-888-532-3500 (VA) or call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN).