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  • rausch180

    A bit different to the usual ones, but yesterday at NBA (18th Nov) they both managed to botch their GPP entries. Cash they had 2 common builds around the 5 core plays of Doncic, Sabonis, House, TT and Dinwiddie. Nothing to see there.

    Yet in the $55 NBA $200K FINGER WAG there were 4132 entries in the GPP, of which 111 had Kyrie Irving who had long been ruled out. ChipotleAddict had 104 with Irving, papagates 7 with him, no one else had any unsurprisingly. Same deal with Jeremy Lamb long ruled out, 29 lineups had him in the GPP, 27 were ChipotleAddict and 2 were papagates. Also in the $8 NBA $400K EXCELLENT 8’S the pattern was similar.

    Once ResultsDB is updated, you’ll be able to see for yourself.

    It is very uncommon for this to happen to a max entry reg. They both had a cash lineup that appears well reacted to all the news. The question is what is the chance of both players independently making a very rare mistake and the same mistake and only in GPP? Any one have a reasonable explanation?

  • gvn2fly1421

    Unrelated, but related, I have never understood how the Chipotle brothers, awesemos, moklovins, all other people who max enter every sport, every single game, etc. do it. I max enter occasionally and do it all by hand and when news breaks, I struggle big time to get everything updated. But props to them for being able to manage thousands of lineups across multiple sports.

    I think what you illustrate above shows you that they have too much money if they can throw away essentially $6,105 in entry fees just on the Kyrie lines.

    Also, unrelated but related, I still think they collude and no one will convince me otherwise. This further proves it to a degree.

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    @rausch180 said...

    A bit different to the usual ones, but yesterday at NBA (18th Nov) they both managed to botch their GPP entries. Cash they had 2 common builds around the 5 core plays of Doncic, Sabonis, House, TT and Dinwiddie. Nothing to see there.

    Yet in the $55 NBA $200K FINGER WAG there were 4132 entries in the GPP, of which 111 had Kyrie Irving who had long been ruled out. ChipotleAddict had 104 with Irving, papagates 7 with him, no one else had any unsurprisingly. Same deal with Jeremy Lamb long ruled out, 29 lineups had him in the GPP, 27 were ChipotleAddict and 2 were papagates. Also in the $8 NBA $400K EXCELLENT 8’S the pattern was similar.

    Once ResultsDB is updated, you’ll be able to see for yourself.

    It is very uncommon for this to happen to a max entry reg. They both had a cash lineup that appears well reacted to all the news. The question is what is the chance of both players independently making a very rare mistake and the same mistake and only in GPP? Any one have a reasonable explanation?

    For the first time on these forums, someone actually put out an interesting lineup analysis of these two players. This looks somewhat bad given how could these be the only two players to miss on Lamb and Kyrie who everyone knew were out.

  • DFSx42

    yeah this is very interesting to say the least

  • Volkster6

    Devils advocate — it looks sketchy, and they’ve had issues before. Remind me though — why we can’t we discuss playing the same players as our friends/siblings? Forgive me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the issue with them over the years “not rostering a single same player/core”??? Meaning they were colluding to have leverage?

  • rausch180

    @Volkster6 said...

    Devils advocate — it looks sketchy, and they’ve had issues before. Remind me though — why we can’t we discuss playing the same players as our friends/siblings? Forgive me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the issue with them over the years “not rostering a single same player/core”??? Meaning they were colluding to have leverage?

    I think it’s fair to describe it as accusations of effectively team play, rather than just discussions over picks and then independently making decisions and entering lineups.

    To me (unless there is some explanation forthcoming) this is rather damning that they aren’t independent. It’s rational to assume that they didn’t discuss Irving and Lamb being out as a reason to pick them. Yet the cash lineup had Dinwiddie, who obviously was a solid option with Irving out. How do you both go away, come up with your lineups, both normal cash lineups and both mess up in the same way in GPP?

    There were 1,080 different users that entered the $55 NBA $200K FINGER WAG. Only 2 had Irving or Lamb and it was ChipotleAddict and papagates.

  • bigfink

    This is ridiculously damning.

  • stv1313

    • 985

      RG Overall Ranking

    A post from Papagates nearly three years ago regarding him and ChipotleAddict:

    “Yes we are brothers. We have never hidden this from anyone. HOWEVER these allegations that we are colluding are completely untrue. We do have a similar general strategy, and utilize a similar system for picking players, but every day we make our teams 100% on our own. There will be some weeks that we don’t discuss any strategy, and we never go into specifics on who we’re picking on any given day. We have several big disagreements in what we think is optimal in general tournament strategy, and every day this plays out differently. Some days, we do have overlap, other days we do not. Just like other pros.”

  • yisman

    I always said that if you review the lineups on a daily basis, it’s far more likely it’s one guy doing them all than two people ‘independently’ landing on the same player pool and same core.

    The DFS sites will say they have the IDs of two people, therefore they consider them to be individuals.

  • NoLimits0

    Why hasn’t this been +1 and highlighted at the top of this forum. This literally is the greatest piece of evidence ever that they clearly are colluding. The statistical improbability of choosing TWO (not just one) players who were both out in both of their player pool when every single other player knew they were out is pretty much significant at the 99.9999% level. This is especially true given they are pros and are supposed to be on top of this. I would get it a random person started Kyrie but to have two pros both choose two inactive players? It’s impossible unless it was 1 person doing both lineups and colluding.

  • NoLimits0

    I’m surprised no other top ranked pro who lurks this forum (but commented in the previous long CA papa thread) has commented. If you are playing for like a lot every night against both of them you should be outraged.

  • DraftKings_CM

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  • jgabby

    Is it illegal to share projections? Is it possible they ran lineups early before news broke with same/similar projections? Is it possible they had a family emergency where neither of them could update lineups?

  • rausch180

    @jgabby said...

    Is it illegal to share projections? Is it possible they ran lineups early before news broke with same/similar projections? Is it possible they had a family emergency where neither of them could update lineups?

    I thought about emergency, power outage, all access to internet gone, but it comes back to the cash lineup looking like it was made post news of Irving and Lamb out. If you had almost no time then I would expect it takes longer to figure out what to do with a new cash lineup, than it does to global swap Irving to anyone playing. Neither appear prolific cash players either at NBA compared to the amount they have in GPP, so the focus there over global swap is perhaps unexpected.

    Ultimately though if family emergency is cited as the reason, I doubt DraftKings could prove sufficiently otherwise regardless of the situation as dispassionate as that sounds.

  • NoLimits0

    @jgabby said...

    Is it illegal to share projections? Is it possible they ran lineups early before news broke with same/similar projections? Is it possible they had a family emergency where neither of them could update lineups?

    yep must’ve been a family emergency. Explains why they did the late slate and had 0% Kawhi Leonard in 300 entries between them it a ton of Lou Williams, PG13, and Montrez Harrell. Even though Kawhi was ruled out after Kyrie and Lamb. What are the chances to add to the previous things you go with 0% Kawhi and a ton of the 3 players who benefit with no Kawhi if you didn’t know Kawhi was actually even out yet…

    It’s pretty laughable you are defending them actually.

  • NoLimits0

    @yisman said...

    I always said that if you review the lineups on a daily basis, it’s far more likely it’s one guy doing them all than two people ‘independently’ landing on the same player pool and same core.

    The DFS sites will say they have the IDs of two people, therefore they consider them to be individuals.

    Yea it’s probably one guy doing it so that’s why the same mistake can be made in two “different” accounts.

    The thing is this is easily masked by just having one guy sign up using normal internet and then using a VPN for the other account. That way it looks like it’s from two different locations, two users, and no one can prove anything. So it’s pretty much impossible to prove until we get a statistical improbable event such as this. But even in that case, they can just explain it off due to the slightest % of random chance however small or due to some other “made up circumstantial” evidence that probably won’t make sense but will be accepted.

  • jgabby

    @NoLimits0 said...

    It’s pretty laughable you are defending them actually.

    Who said I was defending them? It looks fishy but could be explained. They entered their GPP lineups in the morning. They made changes to cash lineups throughout the day as news was breaking. They had something come up where they couldn’t make changes to GPP lineups between 5:00-6:30 CT causing them to miss slate start and three game locks. Played the night slate after everything was done. Easily explains not swapping Lamb and Kyrie (locked) and swapping Kawhi (not locked). I don’t upload my GPP lineups with every news break, I wait until closer to lock as I’m sure they do as well. Could see cash players tweaking their lineup throughout the day.

    Take a step back and examine the situation before jumping to conclusions is all I’m saying.

  • NoLimits0

    @jgabby said...

    Who said I was defending them? It looks fishy but could be explained. They entered their GPP lineups in the morning. They made changes to cash lineups throughout the day as news was breaking. They had something come up where they couldn’t make changes to GPP lineups between 5:00-6:30 CT causing them to miss slate start and three game locks. Played the night slate after everything was done. Easily explains not swapping Lamb and Kyrie (locked) and swapping Kawhi (not locked). I don’t upload my GPP lineups with every news break, I wait until closer to lock as I’m sure they do as well. Could see cash players tweaking their lineup throughout the day.

    Take a step back and examine the situation before jumping to conclusions is all I’m saying.

    You argument is in a realm of a statistical improbability. Like you know how people get convicted on DNA evidence? You know that’s really like a 99.9934% match or something not 100% but we exclude the small infetestimal chance because it’s statistically improbable.

    Let me ask you a question. When Damian Lillard was ruled out today, what was the first thing you did. Yea you woulda swapped out all your Damian Lillard lineups and then put in CJ McCollum Blazers.

    What you are essentially saying is despite them knowing Kyrie was ruled out (which they knew since they had Dinwiddie in cash) they BOTH only swapped in Dinwiddie and BOTH didn’t swap out Kyrie and BOTH also didn’t swap out Lamb. It would be way more believable if both cash lineups had Dinwiddie but one set had Kyrie and the other didn’t. You are saying BOTH didn’t swap out a known injured player despite BOTH swapping to a similar cash build with Dinwiddie.

    Then on top of that you need to multiply the chances of the above with the chances there’s a family emergency that has to affect BOTH of them, but only enough to affect both of them for 1 hour because clearly their late builds took into account Kawhi was out (not just the 0% Kawhi but the nearly 100% Harrell and lots of Lou and PG13 part something you would only do with Kawhi out).

    What are the chances that ALL happened. The chances of a 1 hour family emergency affecting both of them is already very small and then you need to multiply that with the chances of everything I described above. As Yisman said above, this makes far more sense if it’s one person running both accounts and he accidentally made a mistake thus affecting both accounts (and of course they would alternate split profits etc).

    Furthermore if there was a family emergency and everything (despite the statistical improbability) was true, they BOTH didn’t contact support to get their entries cancelled and willingly lost a ton on their injured players lineups when they knew they couldn’t edit their lineups? Multiply that in with everything else and you get a 0.001% chance of your scenario.

    You can always come up with an “argument” but you have to consider the statistical relevance of it. I mean I can make 100 3 pointers in a row too. It’s possible. After all I’ve made 100 3 pointers before in my life, so if they just all happened to be together hey that’s 100 in a row…except consider it in statistics and you know that’s impossible.

    I used to give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes, but this evidence is rock solid. It’s pretty much indisputable but unfortunently nothing will be done.

  • Pandamonious

    • Ranked #62

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • Moderator

    • 2020 Blogger of the Month

    NoLimits…

    Did you ever think that maybe papagates got stuck in his deprivation tank and chipotle had to come over to get him out?

  • NoLimits0

    @Pandamonious said...

    NoLimits…

    Did you ever think that maybe papagates got stuck in his deprivation tank and chipotle had to come over to get him out?

    I know you are joking but I actually tried to do more research into this (on the old discussion) and it seems like they don’t even live in the same state? Is this true hope someone can confirm as of now.

    That actually makes the 1-1.5 hour family emergency affecting both of them to have the same behavior less believable and more statistically unlikely, along with everyone else I described above.

  • jgabby

    The only logical explanations as to why they didn’t change out their MME builds to react to the news are they couldn’t (possible), they forgot (very doubtful), they uploaded the wrong csv (most likely). The csv theory is they had their cash lineup pasted in but pasted in the wrong crunch for MME/forgot to X out Kyrie and Lamb. Impossible that both brothers made this mistake in the same night unless one was in charge of building and uploading. The exposures make this look to be the case. Crunch 300 lineups (likely more), paste this 150 to CA and this 150 to PG. This is a likely scenario which violates TOS.

    Also you must not MME. No one uploads all their lineups after every news blurb.

  • gnicholas0225

    This is clear, clear collusion. It’s patently absurd to deny that these two are working together to circumvent the entry limits. Anyone denying this is simply lying. FanDuel and DraftKings absolutely need to take action.

  • superstars92

    @yisman said...

    I always said that if you review the lineups on a daily basis, it’s far more likely it’s one guy doing them all than two people ‘independently’ landing on the same player pool and same core.

    The DFS sites will say they have the IDs of two people, therefore they consider them to be individuals.

    @yisman and others commenting here: I usually don’t like to comment on threads like this because it eventually turns into some pointless accusations without facts, but this thread was super interesting.

    In fact, your comment really got my attention. I don’t think a single person ever mentioned this in previous threads (I think most just assumed “colluding” meant working together), but what you are bringing up is a serious accusation. Not only is it obviously a rules violation, but do people realize how much a benefit this is? I don’t want to accuse them of anything, but your comment really got me thinking.

    Not only can they submit more +EV entries (from 150 to 300) into a GPP, but the biggest benefit is a “social benefit.” Imagine having to only work on DFS every other day, do you realize how much more chill your life would be. You could be so much more productive in general, have more time to do other things (including improve DFS), and only worry about submitting every other day. This gives them a huge distinct advantage over every other person, especially other pros if they are grinding every night. There are times that like I eat a slightly late dinner, and I’m not even a max 150 every night type of guy because I’m scrambling on late news. Imagine if you did none of that because your brother took care of that for you tonight.

    My mind is really blown because before I read your post, I don’t think anyone ever considered that or brought that up before. It’s one thing just to say “circumvent entry limits,” it’s a completely new level if it’s one person on two accounts alternating, as Yisman points out.

  • mciama2000

    @NoLimits0 said...

    I know you are joking but I actually tried to do more research into this (on the old discussion) and it seems like they don’t even live in the same state? Is this true hope someone can confirm as of now.

    That actually makes the 1-1.5 hour family emergency affecting both of them to have the same behavior less believable and more statistically unlikely, along with everyone else I described above.

    Pretty sure one of the old thread said they were in separates states from way back, one in the midwest and the other on one of the coasts. I just assumed they always divided their 300 lineups up then posted on their own accounts. Kind of obvious its one person doing all the posting if Kyrie was in almost every line up, the 2nd one should of noticed.

  • yisman

    I believe I mentioned this in at least one of the previous threads. This is what I’ve always felt, from back when I first read about the issues regarding the brothers.

    It’s far more plausible than the ideas other people had, but people just laughed at it and said well they’ve been to live finals. I’m not denying they are brothers, and yes, if one of the accounts wins a live final seat, that individual would have to attend the live final. I’m just saying that if you look at the lineups and cores in the big GPPs, with 150 from one and 150 from the other, it’s far more likely that it’s one person entering the lineups than somehow coordinating very closely over phone, or slack, or zoom to make sure lineups didn’t get duplicated. Occam’s Razor.

  • superstars92

    @yisman said...

    I believe I mentioned this in at least one of the previous threads. This is what I’ve always felt.

    Sorry I must’ve not read that in the past (or just stopped looking for the reasons I mentioned), but yea that’s crazy if that’s true. Honestly, I never even considered that a possiblity that until you mentioned it today.

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