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  • rausch180

    A bit different to the usual ones, but yesterday at NBA (18th Nov) they both managed to botch their GPP entries. Cash they had 2 common builds around the 5 core plays of Doncic, Sabonis, House, TT and Dinwiddie. Nothing to see there.

    Yet in the $55 NBA $200K FINGER WAG there were 4132 entries in the GPP, of which 111 had Kyrie Irving who had long been ruled out. ChipotleAddict had 104 with Irving, papagates 7 with him, no one else had any unsurprisingly. Same deal with Jeremy Lamb long ruled out, 29 lineups had him in the GPP, 27 were ChipotleAddict and 2 were papagates. Also in the $8 NBA $400K EXCELLENT 8’S the pattern was similar.

    Once ResultsDB is updated, you’ll be able to see for yourself.

    It is very uncommon for this to happen to a max entry reg. They both had a cash lineup that appears well reacted to all the news. The question is what is the chance of both players independently making a very rare mistake and the same mistake and only in GPP? Any one have a reasonable explanation?

  • BerkeleyBoss

    @superstars92 said...

    Ok so that’s why I’m confused. When they said “glitch,” it wasn’t a glitch? Like their post they said

    I’ll have to revist the Lillard example. I’m stil a bit confused as a new user, this could be important if I ever use it seriously.

    “Kawhi was ruled out 10 mins post lock. Usually, when a player is ruled out, one of two things happens: 1: Fantasycruncher zero’s out their projection, or removes them from the pool 2: In the odd case that doesn’t happen, its easy enough to catch that and manually X out a player who isn’t playing, given there is enough time.”

    FC does zero out their projection thought right? Like that’s what I am trying to say. FC does indeed give Lillard a 0 right now? He’s saying it didn’t for that night and that was the glitch? I’m trying to understand the situation.

    It’s almost like he’s saying he expected a 0 for Kyrie that night but he didn’t get a 0 so that’s what the “glitch” is?

    It’s supposed to 0 out “FC proj”, but not “My proj”. Anybody that is uploading projections will be using “My proj” to optimize or swaptimize their lineups.

    In this case, yes, he’s saying that he expected a 0 for Kyrie, but didn’t get one. Which of course, must mean that he didn’t upload a 0 proj for Kyrie. Until you upload a proj for a player, “my proj” will always mirror “FC proj”. As soon as you upload your own proj for a player, “My proj” only changes when you change it.

  • superstars92

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    @BerkeleyBoss said...

    Kawhi was ruled out 10 mins post lock. Usually, when a player is ruled out, one of two things happens: 1: Fantasycruncher zero’s out their projection,

    Oh ok so that’s why I was confused from the

    “Kawhi was ruled out 10 mins post lock. Usually, when a player is ruled out, one of two things happens: 1: Fantasycruncher zero’s out their projection” comment

    I would have thought this was completely irrelevant at first, but now I understand. Yea that comment he made in his above post means he didn’t upload a projection for Kyrie.

    Otherwise, there would be absolutely no need to make that comment. That’s why I was confused the whole time.

  • superstars92

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    @BerkeleyBoss: Now I get where you are coming from when you say it’s easy to deduce from their post they never uploaded a projection for Kyrie, because otherwise there would be no need to make their first comment

  • BerkeleyBoss

    @superstars92 said...

    @BerkeleyBoss: Now I get where you are coming from when you say it’s easy to deduce from their post they never uploaded a projection for Kyrie, because otherwise there would be no need to make their first comment

    Exactly!

  • jjwd

    @gnicholas0225 said...

    You’re not engaging with the points of evidence that are damning.

    1. They would independently have to run their new GPP uploads at the exact same time, as the FC error was brief
    2. They would have independently both have to not notice the error, and thus upload them incorrect lineups
    3. They would have independently had to come up with non-overlapping lineups, despite using the same projection sources

    1. we don’t know the duration of the error on FC that night
    2. this is true. But they are likely working from the same system which didn’t auto-remove Kyrie. And they have made many such robotic errors before, on other occasions.
    3. This grey area of partnership is A SEPARATE ISSUE, and something I’m not equipped to talk about. What’s being debated in this thread is the totally nefarious possibility that one guy is making 300 lineups. There is simply not enough evidence to arrive at this totally worst-case scenario, no matter how angry some people are right now.

  • superstars92

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    @BerkeleyBoss said...

    Exactly!

    Thanks for explaining that to me! I finally understood now.

  • BerkeleyBoss

    @superstars92 said...

    Thanks for explaining that to me! I finally understood now.

    No worries, makes up for the value your NBA posts have given me =)

  • jgabby

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    TLDR: A bunch of people who don’t use optimizers are trying to explain how optimizers work in order to say the brothers are colluding.

  • BerkeleyBoss

    @jgabby said...

    TLDR: A bunch of people who don’t use optimizers are trying to explain how optimizers work in order to say the brothers are colluding.

    Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!

  • NoLimits0

    @jgabby said...

    TLDR: A bunch of people who don’t use optimizers are trying to explain how optimizers work in order to say the brothers are colluding.

    TLDR: bunch of pros who because they have badges claim the rest of us suck and can’t understand statistics defending CA and Papa as usual

  • SkateFiend

    Is cooperation within a network legal as long as each member independently makes their own lineups? The brothers might make their own lineups with zero input from the other but the the winnings could stay within the family and possibly sustain both DFS ventures.

    Isn’t this also good for tax purpose? If they each won a million dollars (instead of just one of them winning 2 million) they would each receive their own deductions.

  • internetfamous

    I saw the thread title and skipped alot of the comments. Every time I get a feedback thing on draftkings I always get to email the managers of the service teams and EVERY single time I complain about them colluding. What really threw me onto it was Golf and how in every tournament on every single slate they had the same team in cashgames, and sometimes were stupid enough to register the same team in 5 mans vs each other (I guess splitting 1st if it hits isn’t stupid). Thinking about it, Tournaments that are 150 entries is really 300max for them because they just share the same people and build around them then probably split the winnings.

    It’s just gross and so obvious, I told Britdivine in a thread one time, the lineup sharing is literally as bad as ghosting is/was in online poker before black Friday.

  • slicktornewman

    @internetfamous said...

    I saw the thread title and skipped alot of the comments. Every time I get a feedback thing on draftkings I always get to email the managers of the service teams and EVERY single time I complain about them colluding. What really threw me onto it was Golf and how in every tournament on every single slate they had the same team in cashgames, and sometimes were stupid enough to register the same team in 5 mans vs each other (I guess splitting 1st if it hits isn’t stupid). Thinking about it, Tournaments that are 150 entries is really 300max for them because they just share the same people and build around them then probably split the winnings.

    It’s just gross and so obvious, I told Britdivine in a thread one time, the lineup sharing is literally as bad as ghosting is/was in online poker before black Friday.

    I hate the standard replies usually used in these situations but since nothing will ever be done to these two or other pros that may be colluding, I’ll just say it.. either don’t play or build better lineups lol.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @internetfamous said...

    I saw the thread title and skipped alot of the comments. Every time I get a feedback thing on draftkings I always get to email the managers of the service teams and EVERY single time I complain about them colluding. What really threw me onto it was Golf and how in every tournament on every single slate they had the same team in cashgames, and sometimes were stupid enough to register the same team in 5 mans vs each other (I guess splitting 1st if it hits isn’t stupid). Thinking about it, Tournaments that are 150 entries is really 300max for them because they just share the same people and build around them then probably split the winnings.

    It’s just gross and so obvious, I told Britdivine in a thread one time, the lineup sharing is literally as bad as ghosting is/was in online poker before black Friday.

    Just going to leave this reply by the DK rep in another thread: https://rotogrinders.com/threads/draftkings-community-what-would-you-like-to-know-2498166?page=86#reply-3208294

  • GG03

    If any of this is true about the brothers – then how pathetic… If you got to cheat to win – you are lost in life….

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @GG03 said...

    If any of this is true about the brothers – then how pathetic… If you got to cheat to win – you are lost in life….

    Whenever there is money involved, people will find a way to cheat. That isnt justifying anyone cheating, that is just saying that the systems the daily fantasy companies have in place to stop this kind of activity are grossly inadequate.

  • emnj69

    I am going to throw a head to head to one of these guys -mano vs mano and see how it plays out

  • jjwd

    @GG03 said...

    If any of this is true about the brothers – then how pathetic… If you got to cheat to win – you are lost in life….

    “IF TRUE”… a truly Orwellian phrase!

  • Trappist1

    @jjwd said...

    “IF TRUE”… a truly Orwellian phrase!

    Orwellian and Daily Fantasy I never imagined will be said together. Any marketplace where a large money is being exchanged is open to corruption and collusion. Hence why we have regulations and laws to protect the customer/consumer. Entry limits are enforced on the DFS platforms by law otherwise they will be happy with entry limits of 500 which they used to have or more. That will be a sham and there is nothing Orwellian about holding the platforms accountable if they do not keep the games clean as required by regulation and the conditions of their licence.

  • Trappist1

    I find it amazing that people can be so blase about game integrity, you are the customers of the platforms and as such vote with your wallets if they can not keep a CLEAN game. Anyone that can not look at the bigger picture and thinks game integrity does not matter is being naive at best or deluded at worst.

    Regarding collusion/insider trading in daily fantasy there has been academic research and presentation on the subject. Any serious DFS player should watch the presentation which amazingly only has less than 300 views. Here is the video in full and it was presented at Open Data Science Conference in London, 2018. He discusses insider trading and collusion as real issues from this mark 1.30-2.05 and in-depth from the 37.29 to 44.40 minutes. I find it incredulous that the DFS platforms are not aware of it and most likely have been looking the other way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK6dVVNGXPo&feature=youtu.be

    So far neither Chipotle, Papagates, FC, DK or any other so called ‘pros’ have come up with a logical and reasonable explanation for the anomaly in the data from last Monday. The silence is sort of telling, explain it to us. Kudos to the astute observer to notice and point it out, in previous instances people were dismissed saying they were jealous or make better LU’s. This time around the clues were left by their mistake and there is NO witch-hunt.

  • OttawaCityMadman

    @Trappist1 said...

    I find it amazing that people can be so blase about game integrity, you are the customers of the platforms and as such vote with your wallets if they can not keep a CLEAN game. Anyone that can not look at the bigger picture and thinks game integrity does not matter is being naive at best or deluded at worst.

    Regarding collusion/insider trading in daily fantasy there has been academic research and presentation on the subject. Any serious DFS player should watch the presentation which amazingly only has less than 300 views. Here is the video in full and it was presented at Open Data Science Conference in London, 2018. He discusses insider trading and collusion as real issues from this mark 1.30-2.05 and in-depth from the 37.29 to 44.40 minutes. I find it incredulous that the DFS platforms are not aware of it and most likely have been looking the other way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK6dVVNGXPo&feature=youtu.be

    So far neither Chipotle, Papagates, FC, DK or any other so called ‘pros’ have come up with a logical and reasonable explanation for the anomaly in the data from last Monday. The silence is sort of telling, explain it to us. Kudos to the astute observer to notice and point it out, in previous instances people were dismissed saying they were jealous or make better LU’s. This time around the clues were left by their mistake and there is NO witch-hunt.

    Your flogging and beating a dead horse dude, give er up. Ive said it a few times around here. Its the same level “illegal” as ticket scalping. You can do it right in front of Police, and all they do is shake down the poor kid smoking a joint. It sucks for the die hard fans that can’t score that sweet seat they want, but oh well. WAIT they brought in ETickets, that will stop scalpers right?! No, they’ve found a way around that too…

  • Trappist1

    @OttawaCityMadman said...

    Your flogging and beating a dead horse dude, give er up. Ive said it a few times around here. Its the same level “illegal” as ticket scalping. You can do it right in front of Police, and all they do is shake down the poor kid smoking a joint. It sucks for the die hard fans that can’t score that sweet seat they want, but oh well. WAIT they brought in ETickets, that will stop scalpers right?! No, they’ve found a way around that too…

    I am not flogging anything and hardly post on the forum anymore or on this subject. Just posted to share the academic research and presentation done which includes some of the topics being discussed on the thread. You can read or watch or ignore it or you can keep on playing or decide to move your money to where there are clean games. Astounding people are so blase about game integrity and good luck in DFS then beating absurd rake levels and blatant collusion. DFS is not the only innovative thing that is built and please look around you. Do not give up on that.

  • DFSx42

    @Trappist1 said...

    Astounding people are so blase about game integrity

    yeah… like when i suggested people stop playing on DK at least for one day to get their voices heard and people ridiculed that

    vote with your wallets people and you’ll get the DFS site you want, there are dozens of sites out there, it’s a very simple process to exercise options the free market makes available

    DK also has among the highest rake too, there’s really no reason to play there at all

  • gaelicgirl

    @Trappist1 said...

    I am not flogging anything and hardly post on the forum anymore or on this subject. Just posted to share the academic research and presentation done which includes some of the topics being discussed on the thread.

    Appreciate your contribution to the discussion, thanks for the link!
    Most people are resigned to the apparent collusion, etc. People expect that nothing will be done about it because the sites need that big money to keep flowing in. “He who pays the piper calls the tune,” as they say.
    The only way to negate the collusion is to play single entry contests. You won’t win life changing money, but at least the playing field is more even and you can still enjoy the challenge of DFS as a hobby.

  • jjwd

    @Trappist1 said...

    That will be a sham and there is nothing Orwellian about holding the platforms accountable if they do not keep the games clean as required by regulation and the conditions of their licence.

    Well, you are definitely missing my point. My problem with these discussions is the presumption of guilt. That is Orwellian. As for the completely bogus strawman argument of: “people don’t care about game integrity” you couldn’t be more wrong. This whole thread has been about interested people debating the mechanics of the error which happened that night; an error which people frankly don’t understand unless they know how optimizers and csv uploads work.

    To suggest that DK is somehow covering up provable collusion because they need rake from one guy is preposterous on it’s face. This is a global company who understands the rabid press and media scrutiny, having gone through it already. The idea of cooperation and lineup sharing is a grey area, but that is a separate debate. People like me who give plausible explanations for errors like this are doing so because we love the game and don’t like to see resentful players give up hope based on unfounded assumptions.

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