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  • rausch180

    A bit different to the usual ones, but yesterday at NBA (18th Nov) they both managed to botch their GPP entries. Cash they had 2 common builds around the 5 core plays of Doncic, Sabonis, House, TT and Dinwiddie. Nothing to see there.

    Yet in the $55 NBA $200K FINGER WAG there were 4132 entries in the GPP, of which 111 had Kyrie Irving who had long been ruled out. ChipotleAddict had 104 with Irving, papagates 7 with him, no one else had any unsurprisingly. Same deal with Jeremy Lamb long ruled out, 29 lineups had him in the GPP, 27 were ChipotleAddict and 2 were papagates. Also in the $8 NBA $400K EXCELLENT 8’S the pattern was similar.

    Once ResultsDB is updated, you’ll be able to see for yourself.

    It is very uncommon for this to happen to a max entry reg. They both had a cash lineup that appears well reacted to all the news. The question is what is the chance of both players independently making a very rare mistake and the same mistake and only in GPP? Any one have a reasonable explanation?

  • NoLimits0

    @yisman said...

    I believe I mentioned this in at least one of the previous threads. This is what I’ve always felt, from back when I first read about the issues regarding the brothers.

    It’s far more plausible than the ideas other people had, but people just laughed at it and said well they’ve been to live finals. I’m not denying they are brothers, and yes, if one of the accounts wins a live final seat, that individual would have to attend the live final. I’m just saying that if you look at the lineups and cores in the big GPPs, with 150 from one and 150 from the other, it’s far more likely that it’s one person entering the lineups than somehow coordinating very closely over phone, or slack, or zoom to make sure lineups didn’t get duplicated. Occam’s Razor.

    I believed you.

    To add to this, it’s one thing to have like two Reddit accounts or two Instagram accounts like KD or two emails, no one cares.

    But when you have two accounts and there’s money involved, I’m almost positive there’s some legal ramifications to this. No not legal like DK compliance but legal legal. In your post you are basically describing tax evasion. DK obviously has the no collusion rule, but they also have to no two account rule and it has nothing to do with collusion. It’s more to do with tax and that’s a big Pandora’s box.

  • NoLimits0

    To add to this, I have no idea why a DK representative even posted here trying to sound legit. We all know in this thread probably nothing will be done (like not even an investigation), it’s just nice to talk about lay out the facts but it’s not like they’ll get in trouble or anything.

  • gvn2fly1421

    @NoLimits0 said...

    I believed you.

    To add to this, it’s one thing to have like two Reddit accounts or two Instagram accounts like KD or two emails, no one cares.

    But when you have two accounts and there’s money involved, I’m almost positive there’s some legal ramifications to this. No not legal like DK compliance but legal legal. In your post you are basically describing tax evasion. DK obviously has the no collusion rule, but they also have to no two account rule and it has nothing to do with collusion. It’s more to do with tax and that’s a big Pandora’s box.

    That’s the thing though, and I think that is where it gets hard to police. One of them does not have two accounts, they each have an account and are each their own person. Who runs the accounts may be another thing, however…

    Mphst18 had the 40 page thread three years ago and he posted videos, one from Draftkings own site of one of the brothers sweating the MM and mentioning several times, “we” instead of “I” or “me”. When I clicked the link today, that video was gone. An old Assani video was still active-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngxoXXHw_20&app=desktop

    Roughly the 7:45 mark he dives into “teams”…

    Edit… Link to the 40 page thread here… https://rotogrinders.com/threads/papagates-chipotle-addict-more-entry-limits-being-circumvented-1440337?page=1

  • gvn2fly1421

    Also, this thread always seems to come up when they dominate a GPP, and the response typically comes back, “Make better lineups”, etc…

    Funny that it comes up this time when they had to get their ass handed to them and it is more damning than them winning tons of money.

  • NoLimits0

    @gvn2fly1421 said...

    That’s the thing though, and I think that is where it gets hard to police. One of them does not have two accounts, they each have an account and are each their own person. Who runs the accounts may be another thing, however…

    Mphst18 had the 40 page thread three years ago and he posted videos, one from Draftkings own site of one of the brothers sweating the MM and mentioning several times, “we” instead of “I” or “me”. When I clicked the link today, that video was gone. An old Assani video was still active-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngxoXXHw_20&app=desktop

    Roughly the 7:45 mark he dives into “teams”…

    Edit… Link to the 40 page thread here… https://rotogrinders.com/threads/papagates-chipotle-addict-more-entry-limits-being-circumvented-1440337?page=1

    Yea I used to actually give them the benefit of the doubt as I mentioned but this evidence is SO STRONG it cannot be ignored. However even this this piece of evidence and whatever circumstantial evidence from before, I doubt anything will be done (not even an internal investigation).

    I know a lot of other sites in other industries might do what the NFL does and like place someone on the exempt list, do an investigation, and get results back but they can’t afford that with so much rake these two are paying.

  • Zieg30

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @superstars92 said...

    It’s one thing just to say “circumvent entry limits,” it’s a completely new level if it’s one person on two accounts alternating, as Yisman points out.

    I agree that this is a really interesting thread in a way that others on this topic have not been. This seems to have some real legs.

    That said, I would think that, if true, it could just be one person who liked DFS, and co-opted his brother’s identity to open a second account. That it’s only one of the two brothers who actually plays. Thus, not one person on two accounts alternating, but just one person on two accounts, period.

  • NoLimits0

    @gvn2fly1421 said...

    Also, this thread always seems to come up when they dominate a GPP, and the response typically comes back, “Make better lineups”, etc…

    Funny that it comes up this time when they had to get their ass handed to them and it is more damning than them winning tons of money.

    Yes the OP should be given a gold star. Honestly this is the best post I’ve seen on RG and it’s super objective too he just lays out facts (and it has nothing to do with them winning). I’m surprised the OP noticed this when they didn’t do well leads me to think if this has happened multiple times before (which just keeps adding to the statistical improbability).

    Im still waiting for some top pros to comment I remember that old thread multiple top pros who never commented before on anything came out and commented. Where are you anilprao88?

  • NoLimits0

    @Zieg30 said...

    I agree that this is a really interesting thread in a way that others on this topic have not been. This seems to have some real legs.

    That said, I would think that, if true, it could just be one person who liked DFS, and co-opted his brother’s identity to open a second account. That it’s only one of the two brothers who actually plays. Thus, not one person on two accounts alternating, but just one person on two accounts, period.

    I’m not a lawyer (our mod is though) but correct me if I’m wrong. In your example above, if it’s one guy playing on two accounts and the second account is a different name and there’s money involved, isn’t that the defintion of fraud?

  • superstars92

    Sorry to be a party pooper, but before we go any futher, @rausch180, can you provide us with the data you are using for this?

    Like you mentioned both had Spencer Dinwiddie in cash but Kyrie Irving in some GPPs (and only them), is there a way to verify this? I am not trying to discredit you but just saying you should provide some links because this is a pretty serious accusation.

  • superstars92

    @Zieg30 said...

    That said, I would think that, if true, it could just be one person who liked DFS, and co-opted his brother’s identity to open a second account. That it’s only one of the two brothers who actually plays. Thus, not one person on two accounts alternating, but just one person on two accounts, period.

    Dang you and NoLimits are taking it even further. I just thought from Yisman’s post it was alternating, but you are saying 1 person is on 2 accounts permanently?

  • yisman

    @superstars92 said...

    Sorry to be a party pooper, but before we go any futher, @rausch180, can you provide us with the data you are using for this?

    Like you mentioned both had Spencer Dinwiddie in cash but Kyrie Irving in some GPPs (and only them), is there a way to verify this? I am not trying to discredit you but just saying you should provide some links because this is a pretty serious accusation.

    You can use ResultsDB to look at this.

    https://rotogrinders.com/resultsdb/site/draftkings/date/2019-11-18/sport/nba/slate/5dd330eec9690976aba1f950/contest/5dd33173c9690976aba25eea Should take you to the DK Finger Wag.

    RE: Alternating

    That’s not my theory. It seems to be a stretch to say this. One person was what I said. I’ll try and dig up my old post.

  • madmanjayWV

    @rausch180 said...

    A bit different to the usual ones, but yesterday at NBA (18th Nov) they both managed to botch their GPP entries. Cash they had 2 common builds around the 5 core plays of Doncic, Sabonis, House, TT and Dinwiddie. Nothing to see there.

    Yet in the $55 NBA $200K FINGER WAG there were 4132 entries in the GPP, of which 111 had Kyrie Irving who had long been ruled out. ChipotleAddict had 104 with Irving, papagates 7 with him, no one else had any unsurprisingly. Same deal with Jeremy Lamb long ruled out, 29 lineups had him in the GPP, 27 were ChipotleAddict and 2 were papagates. Also in the $8 NBA $400K EXCELLENT 8’S the pattern was similar.

    Once ResultsDB is updated, you’ll be able to see for yourself.

    It is very uncommon for this to happen to a max entry reg. They both had a cash lineup that appears well reacted to all the news. The question is what is the chance of both players independently making a very rare mistake and the same mistake and only in GPP? Any one have a reasonable explanation?

    The explanation is they just didn’t build a better LU in those b/c they 4got — happens to the best of ‘em

  • Pandamonious

    • Ranked #82

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • Moderator

    • 2020 Blogger of the Month

    @superstars92 said...

    Dang you and NoLimits are taking it even further. I just thought from Yisman’s post it was alternating, but you are saying 1 person is on 2 accounts permanently?

    If it is and always 1 person someone should take the time to read their post history on RG and see if there’s any significant similarities between their posting style. Certain abbreviations, phrases, common misspellings, things like that.

  • superstars92

    @Pandamonious said...

    If it is and always 1 person someone should take the time to read their post history on RG and see if there’s any significant similarities between their posting style. Certain abbreviations, phrases, common misspellings, things like that.

    I really hope it isn’t really what you guys are saying, if it’s been 1 person on 2 accounts, that completely ruins the integrity of DFS. It’s already bad enough if it was like alternative, but 1 person on 2 accounts for a high stakes player? I actually really hope this isn’t the case.

    @panda: I don’t think they have ever posted here (maybe just once in response to the other thread?). The better way to look at is has there been a night where one of Papa or Chipotle plays but the other doesn’t. If there has been no nights like this and there have been nights where both didn’t play, that’s a smoking gun.

  • rausch180

    @superstars92 said...

    Sorry to be a party pooper, but before we go any futher, @rausch180, can you provide us with the data you are using for this?

    Like you mentioned both had Spencer Dinwiddie in cash but Kyrie Irving in some GPPs (and only them), is there a way to verify this? I am not trying to discredit you but just saying you should provide some links because this is a pretty serious accusation.

    From the daily fantasy links thread that is pinned at the top of the main forum (I’m not sure how to turn them in to links):

    NBA $200K Finger Wag [$50K to 1st, Record Week]: https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/81108771
    NBA $400K Excellent 8’s [$100K to 1st, Record Week]: https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/81108774

    Then cash I just looked at the NBA SINGLE ENTRY $25 DOUBLE UP: https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/81095359

    I believe if it’s within a week or 2 weeks you can download the csv to look in detail, but then it expires. Alternatively you can use the RotoGrinders ResultsDB to browse the tournaments.

  • superstars92

    @NoLimits0 said...

    The thing is this is easily masked by just having one guy sign up using normal internet and then using a VPN for the other account. That way it looks like it’s from two different locations, two users, and no one can prove anything. So it’s pretty much impossible to prove until we get a statistical improbable event such as this. But even in that case, they can just explain it off due to the slightest % of random chance however small or due to some other “made up circumstantial” evidence that probably won’t make sense but will be accepted.

    You should use my example above, which is check to see if there’s nights where both don’t play vs. only one plays. There’s no way they go on the exact same vacations every single year at the exact same time, especially as you mentioned below they don’t even live together. Of course you need to do this in retrospect starting now, they could start employing a more sophisticated strategy after reading this thread where they purposely have one person not play. The thing you descibe with VPN, I’m not sure how that works exactly, but is there no detection for that on the hosts’s behalf?

  • madmanjayWV

    @NoLimits0 said...

    To add to this, I have no idea why a DK representative even posted here trying to sound legit. We all know in this thread probably nothing will be done (like not even an investigation), it’s just nice to talk about lay out the facts but it’s not like they’ll get in trouble or anything.

    I mean integrity — that’s why DK is here —

    Nothing is wrong sheep…move along now….

  • yisman

    @superstars92 post history:

    https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/chipotleaddict
    https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/papagates

    Also, if anyone from RG is reading this, what happened to the original thread that led to this? https://rotogrinders.com/threads/constructively-addressing-the-papagates-chipotleaddict-collusion-claims-1893323

    Awoo’s thread is gone. https://rotogrinders.com/threads/the-rise-and-the-fall-of-dfs-1884253

    That contained many of the posts relating to this.

  • superstars92

    @yisman said...

    @superstars92 post history:

    https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/chipotleaddict
    https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/papagates

    Wow I never knew they even posted here in depth. I thought it was just one long post and that was it. I am not an English expert or a VPN expert so I cannot like confirm or deny anything. However, it could still be plausible it’s two different people posting here but 1 person playing (like one brother can tell the other brother hey man use your account to post here)? I still don’t like the 1 person playing theory, maybe because I am an optimist. The alternating theory is not much better, but I am still leaning towards that.

    However, with this said, I already found a red flag in your links.

    Chipotle posted in the “Constructively Addressing the PapaGates/ChipotleAddict Collusion Claims” thread but Papagates did not.

    Papagates posted in the “Papagates/chipotle addict More Entry Limits being circumvented?” but Chipotle did not.

    That’s suspect actually, you would think both would post and not alternate because it’s talking about both of them, but if you only choose to log onto one account for that one thread, you wouldn’t have both posting…

    Hmm…you guys trying to make me a detective here.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @gvn2fly1421 said...

    Also, this thread always seems to come up when they dominate a GPP, and the response typically comes back, “Make better lineups”, etc…

    Funny that it comes up this time when they had to get their ass handed to them and it is more damning than them winning tons of money.

    Make worse lineups?

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @superstars92 said...

    I really hope it isn’t really what you guys are saying, if it’s been 1 person on 2 accounts, that completely ruins the integrity of DFS. It’s already bad enough if it was like alternative, but 1 person on 2 accounts for a high stakes player? I actually really hope this isn’t the case.

    @panda: I don’t think they have ever posted here (maybe just once in response to the other thread?). The better way to look at is has there been a night where one of Papa or Chipotle plays but the other doesn’t. If there has been no nights like this and there have been nights where both didn’t play, that’s a smoking gun.

    Like there is any integrity to the games to begin with. You better believe there are others out there skirting the 150 limit. And if you think it’s just to get to 300 entries, well, you’d be fooling yourself again.

  • NoLimits0

    @Pandamonious said...

    If it is and always 1 person someone should take the time to read their post history on RG and see if there’s any significant similarities between their posting style. Certain abbreviations, phrases, common misspellings, things like that.

    I read their old posts. Their language used is very similar but that’s probably not a strong piece of evidence compared to what the OP pointed out.

  • NoLimits0

    @superstars92 said...

    You should use my example above, which is check to see if there’s nights where both don’t play vs. only one plays. There’s no way they go on the exact same vacations every single year at the exact same time, especially as you mentioned below they don’t even live together. Of course you need to do this in retrospect starting now, they could start employing a more sophisticated strategy after reading this thread where they purposely have one person not play. The thing you descibe with VPN, I’m not sure how that works exactly, but is there no detection for that on the hosts’s behalf?

    Yes they can easily get around leaving a digital footprint by using a VPN. It’s too long to describe here but if you Wikipedia VPN it’ll tell you how it can be used. Essentially it is easy to make it look like Chipotle and Papa are logging on from two different locations and you don’t have to be a tech expert to use a VPN. If you have ever traveled abroad to other countries this is how you can still get on Facebook even though it’s banned in that country.

    For your other point, I’ll be interested too but it’s a lot of data you have to dig through since they mostly both play every night

  • NoLimits0

    No one really addressed my question. Isn’t it fraud like legal fraud if you are playing under someone else’s account for money (and then not reporting it as your income)?

  • superstars92

    @thedude404 said...

    Like there is any integrity to the games to begin with. You better believe there are others out there skirting the 150 limit. And if you think it’s just to get to 300 entries, well, you’d be fooling yourself again.

    You are missing the point here. Most of us probably don’t really care about the 150 to 300 entries, etc. The more important question is if 1 person is using 2 accounts that people are bringing up. I’m not sure if you understand why these two things are very different and not on the same level.

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