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  • rausch180

    A bit different to the usual ones, but yesterday at NBA (18th Nov) they both managed to botch their GPP entries. Cash they had 2 common builds around the 5 core plays of Doncic, Sabonis, House, TT and Dinwiddie. Nothing to see there.

    Yet in the $55 NBA $200K FINGER WAG there were 4132 entries in the GPP, of which 111 had Kyrie Irving who had long been ruled out. ChipotleAddict had 104 with Irving, papagates 7 with him, no one else had any unsurprisingly. Same deal with Jeremy Lamb long ruled out, 29 lineups had him in the GPP, 27 were ChipotleAddict and 2 were papagates. Also in the $8 NBA $400K EXCELLENT 8’S the pattern was similar.

    Once ResultsDB is updated, you’ll be able to see for yourself.

    It is very uncommon for this to happen to a max entry reg. They both had a cash lineup that appears well reacted to all the news. The question is what is the chance of both players independently making a very rare mistake and the same mistake and only in GPP? Any one have a reasonable explanation?

  • NoLimits0

    @papagates said...

    Both Tom and I use Fantasycruncher’s late swaptimizer in order to swap post lock. Kawhi was ruled out 10 mins post lock. Usually, when a player is ruled out, one of two things happens: 1: Fantasycruncher zero’s out their projection, or removes them from the pool 2: In the odd case that doesn’t happen, its easy enough to catch that and manually X out a player who isn’t playing, given there is enough time. In this case, neither of them happened and we both ended up missing it in the scramble of juggling nba and MNF. Neither of us use fc for prelock nba tournaments which is why you will notice neither of these players were used on fd, and dk could verify that they were not in the prelock uploads. This was just a tiny glitch in fc that neither of us caught in the chaos of post-lock news. Over the thousands of slates we’ve played we’ve both made an embarrassing number of mistakes like this, it has just never happened on the same day before.

    Ok thanks for your response.

  • lemay88

    @papagates said...

    In this case, neither of them happened and we both ended up missing it in the scramble of juggling nba and MNF.

    It is Tuesday bud, the Monday Night Football excuse has no relevance. You’re digging your own grave now bud. Let’s hope DK and FD ban these cheaters for good, man this is frustrating.

  • superstars92

    • 150

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #23

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @papagates said...

    Both Tom and I use Fantasycruncher’s late swaptimizer in order to swap post lock. Kawhi was ruled out 10 mins post lock. Usually, when a player is ruled out, one of two things happens: 1: Fantasycruncher zero’s out their projection, or removes them from the pool 2: In the odd case that doesn’t happen, its easy enough to catch that and manually X out a player who isn’t playing, given there is enough time. In this case, neither of them happened and we both ended up missing it in the scramble of juggling nba and MNF. Neither of us use fc for prelock nba tournaments which is why you will notice neither of these players were used on fd, and dk could verify that they were not in the prelock uploads. This was just a tiny glitch in fc that neither of us caught in the chaos of post-lock news. Over the thousands of slates we’ve played we’ve both made an embarrassing number of mistakes like this, it has just never happened on the same day before.

    @leemay88, NoLimits, everyone else you guys get some rest, this forum is about to explode tomorrow. I’ve got the MJ popcorn gif ready.

    Trust me.

  • blenderhd

    • 270

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    • Ranked #30

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    @lemay88 said...

    It is Tuesday bud, the Monday Night Football excuse has no relevance. You’re digging your own grave now bud. Let’s hope DK and FD ban these cheaters for good, man this is frustrating.

    The slate in question was Monday night. The late swap when Kawhi was ruled out was at 7:10pm ET, which would be within an hour or so of MNF showdown lock.

  • lemay88

    @superstars92 said...

    @leemay88, NoLimits, everyone else you guys get some rest, this forum is about to explode tomorrow. I’ve got the MJ popcorn gif ready.

    Trust me.

    At work man, gonna be a long night. I truly believe this is the nail in the coffin for these brothers. If nothing happens, it’s clearly a sham.

  • lemay88

    @blenderhd said...

    The slate in question was Monday night. The late swap when Kawhi was ruled out was at 7:10pm ET, which would be within an hour or so of MNF showdown lock.

    I misread that, my apologies. You’re telling me that two seasoned pros had an hour and still made this mistake? Come on man…

  • superstars92

    • 150

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    @blenderhd said...

    The slate in question was Monday night. The late swap when Kawhi was ruled out was at 7:10pm ET, which would be within an hour or so of MNF showdown lock.

    You get some rest too. Don’t get too excited.

  • superstars92

    • 150

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    @lemay88 said...

    At work man, gonna be a long night. I truly believe this is the nail in the coffin for these brothers. If nothing happens, it’s clearly a sham.

    Ah sorry man, well hope work turns out ok for you. Like I said, wait until the morning. There will be some responses to this thread now.

  • blenderhd

    • 270

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    • Ranked #30

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    @superstars92 said...

    You get some rest too. Don’t get too excited.

    I really wasn’t being facetious before. I’ll be the first one in line with a pitchfork if there’s actual concrete rock sold evidence that they’re breaking the terms of service. I’m not defending anyone blindly.

    In this specific instance, I am more inclined to accept the rational explanation that was provided since it’s an actual error that I’ve personally done before myself several times, and know many others that have also.

  • lemay88

    @blenderhd said...

    In this specific instance, I am more inclined to accept the rational explanation that was provided since it’s an actual error that I’ve personally done before myself several times, and know many others that have also.

    This is under two accounts, it’s not a single instance. It happened on both accounts, who just happened to be owned by two brothers who everybody is already convinced are cheating/colluding in some matter. Like I said earlier, it’s a terrible look on your part, especially because you are an RG employee. Stop defending actions that are 99.999997% unlikely to be legitimate.

  • superjon

    @blenderhd said...

    I really wasn’t being facetious before. I’ll be the first one in line with a pitchfork if there’s actual concrete rock sold evidence that they’re breaking the terms of service. I’m not defending anyone blindly.

    In this specific instance, I am more inclined to accept the rational explanation that was provided since it’s an actual error that I’ve personally done before myself several times, and know many others that have also.

    Of course it’s happened to other people. That’s not the issue. The issue is that in this instance, it happened

    1. to just 2 people out 100k+
    2. on the same night
    3. with the same 2 inactive players
    4. to players who just happen to be related and have been accused of collusion/cheating in the past

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    Funny how people are pointing out that Blender is “biased”, yet the people making that claim aren’t biased. There are no facts here, since no knows the true story. Yes, the event in question looks shady. But, also Blender’s comments on his own experiences in MME and the few times he has made mistakes must be given some weight.

  • ValuableTrader

    First thing that crossed my mind was the question of “is there any benefit in keeping Kyrie out” or in general “missing” like this? I find it very hard to believe seasoned pros would miss something like this (a guy ruled out well in advance) with the amount of money that was entered. They make alot of money but I don’t think they can afford to miss this bad or can they? How much did they actually lose out on in that tourney?

  • fightingjohn

    So all of this is very interesting to say the least. But papagates response was not a real response in my mind. He hid behind a “glitch” is the system that caused this. Do I really but that answer, heck no, but that is me. If you are this so called high roller pro, then you always have a backup plan. Something is off on this whole situation.

    Of course the high ranking players on RG are going to come to the rescue. Do I think that DFS sites are ran to the letter???? Heck no they are not. If they ban the high profile players, then bye bye they go and all that money. DFS is not a legit sport to play anymore. The casual player will always be behind the power cure in this industry. Money always talks.

  • lemay88

    @ValuableTrader said...

    First thing that crossed my mind was the question of “is there any benefit in keeping Kyrie out” or in general “missing” like this? I find it very hard to believe seasoned pros would miss something like this (a guy ruled out well in advance) with the amount of money that was entered. They make alot of money but I don’t think they can afford to miss this bad or can they? How much did they actually lose out on in that tourney?

    I have no idea about the amounts of money. Ask yourself this question, they “both” put Kyrie in 111 lineups I believe it was indicated.

    That is suspicious itself on it’s own, but they did the same with Jeremy Lamb. The odds of all their actions going down how they mentioned and blaming it on football is zero. Or sorry, maybe a 0.0000003% of actually happening.

    The problem is that DK and FD will do nothing about it. If they do ban them, then I guess we will be seeing two brand new users at the top of these GPPs.

  • icemanyeee

    @NoLimits0 said...

    Ok thanks for your response.

    all this back and forth and this is your response????, was expecting more

  • NoLimits0

    @papagates said...

    Both Tom and I use Fantasycruncher’s late swaptimizer in order to swap post lock. Kawhi was ruled out 10 mins post lock. Usually, when a player is ruled out, one of two things happens: 1: Fantasycruncher zero’s out their projection, or removes them from the pool 2: In the odd case that doesn’t happen, its easy enough to catch that and manually X out a player who isn’t playing, given there is enough time. In this case, neither of them happened and we both ended up missing it in the scramble of juggling nba and MNF. Neither of us use fc for prelock nba tournaments which is why you will notice neither of these players were used on fd, and dk could verify that they were not in the prelock uploads. This was just a tiny glitch in fc that neither of us caught in the chaos of post-lock news. Over the thousands of slates we’ve played we’ve both made an embarrassing number of mistakes like this, it has just never happened on the same day before.

    1. So you just admitted your brother made your lineups last night
    2. Hundreds of players, from other top pros, to casuals all use fantasy cruncher. Nobody else was affected. That’s in the data. How come only you and your brother and only you two encountered this glitch, conicidentally on the same night. How come a legit site like fantasy cruncher only cause you and your brother to screw up? You and your brother special?

    (Skip to 6 if you think he wasn’t super clear with his wording but 3-5 holds since his wording is ambiguous)
    3. I have no idea what “Kawhi” exactly has to do with this. Usually when someone costs and your brother like 10k+ especially due to a silly mistake like this you remember their name. You do realize that Kyrie Irving, not Kawhi Leonard, was the person who was ruled out right. Yes believe it or not they aren’t the same person. I know since you didn’t submit the lineups and your brother did it’s easy to mix up the two. Most of us who do our own lineups wouldn’t mix up the two.
    4. Revisiting the Kawhi issue, Kyrie was ruled out and he was ruled out at 4:30, 2.5 hours after lock (check it out yourself type Kyrie here and look at the time or look at RG alerts on Monday). Enter Kyrie Irving in the player name section. https://www.fantasylabs.com/nba/news/12319?u=8d930193-21c2-4b9c-b2b1-a09d20cafc85. So even if you meant to type “Kyrie was out at 7:10” instead of Kawhi, that would also be wrong so it’s not like you mistype Kawhi for Kyrie if that was actually the case.
    5. You actually had 0% Kawhi Leonard so he somehow actually managed to be crossed out and Xed but not Kyrie and Lamb.

    6. If your previous point instead meant something like “when Kawhi was ruled out at 7:10, we just ran FC late swap and that’s how we got Kyrie and Lamb”, you can ignore 3-5 but 1-2 still hold. It’s totally not clear you meant this but let’s say you did. That means literally what you are saying is you just blindly both ran FCs optimizer without inputting anything on your own (actually supports my post on the other link where I say people just blindly ran optimizers). I mean you are saying two top pros just blindly ran a third party optimizer with a ton of money on the line?? Is that what you are saying?

    Even in this case, how did the optimizer manage to get you 0% Kawhi a player who also theoretically shouldn’t have been Xed out but a ton of Kyrie and Lamb? And like I said that’s not believe because so many people use FC and this glitch only affected you and your brother?
    7. The Monday slate locked an hour later and you are uploading mass entries which is quick. You are serious going to blame a lock that occurred 1 hour after this to this issue? If anything the locked occurred for the Nets game 20 mins after and the way DK organizes upcoming contests it would be clear to see a big fat red O next to Kyrie and Lamb as you scored that page. More importantly it would be quite clear independently to one of you two at least given absolutely no one else had the issue.

    8. Just think about conditional probability, what are the chances it affected only two users despite everyone using FC, and those two users happen to be only you and your brother? The chances are almost 0%.

  • rausch180

    It’s a plausible explanation and one which fantasycruncher will be able to corroborate. Has anyone else experienced this quirk of the software where it didn’t remove players a few hours after they were out?

    It all seems pretty low probability, both had the same fantasycruncher issue (yet to be seen if other users did), neither spotted the error after lateswapping in the software or after importing their lineups. Low probability things happen though and this might just be one of them.

  • NoLimits0

    @rausch180 said...

    It’s a plausible explanation and one which fantasycruncher will be able to corroborate. Has anyone else experienced this quirk of the software where it didn’t remove players a few hours after they were out?

    It all seems pretty low probability, both had the same fantasycruncher issue (yet to be seen if other users did), neither spotted the error after lateswapping in the software or after importing their lineups. Low probability things happen though and this might just be one of them.

    Funny how this conversation turned from an emergency (blender) to now this.

    Actually what you are saying proves nothing.

    Let’s just assume there was a FC glitch (which alone has low probability).

    Then assume like 2000+ users from top pros to casuals use FC (that’s reasonable assumption).

    What are the chances out of 2000 users only 2 were specially affected or that all 2000 were affected but only 2 didn’t realize the issue? And those 2 just also happen to be brothers who also happen to have the same cash build core and similar GPP exposures.

    If I gave you 2000 random objects, each paired, and you pick exactly a known pair, the chances of that are extremely low. The chances are much higher in picking two random ones. It’s more likely that “pair” was “attached together” aka one person is making the same mistake, if there was a glitch.

    The glitch part doesn’t mean anything. It’s more likely 1 person makes the mistake with a glitch than 2 people, especially top pros with what they have at stake, independentally. And besides the chances of a glitch itself is low but even if was 100%, it means nothing.

  • superstars92

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    @jgabby said...

    The only logical explanations as to why they didn’t change out their MME builds to react to the news are they couldn’t (possible), they forgot (very doubtful), they uploaded the wrong csv (most likely). The csv theory is they had their cash lineup pasted in but pasted in the wrong crunch for MME/forgot to X out Kyrie and Lamb. Impossible that both brothers made this mistake in the same night unless one was in charge of building and uploading. The exposures make this look to be the case. Crunch 300 lineups (likely more), paste this 150 to CA and this 150 to PG. This is a likely scenario which violates TOS.

    Guys, you do realize JGabby already “predicted” papagates’s response like on page 1 of this thread right? Read JGabby’s response (uploaded a bad CSV that didn’t X out Kyrie and Lamb), it’s basically what papagates talked about.

    And like JGabby mentions, this is pretty much impossible BOTH brothers made the exact same mistake the exact same night when no body else made the same mistake, with similar exposures in every other area like cash, unless as he mentions the guy in charge of the uploading/submitting screwed up which screwed up for both and only both out of the thousands who also submitted lineups.

  • superstars92

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    @rausch180, what was their ownership of Spencer Dinwiddie in GPPs (since they had him in cash)? I would be curious to know.

  • ValuableTrader

    Wow, NoLimits is killing it right now. These guys better explain more clearly what happened or I’m with you guys, this could get real ugly.

  • stv1313

    • 728

      RG Overall Ranking

    I’d feel better about Papagates’ explanation if other users of Fantasycrunch – ANYONE? – experienced the same issue and were forced to manually ‘x’ out Kyrie and/or Lamb in the post-lock madness. In fact, I’d be interested to hear from anyone who used FantasyCrunch after lock that night.

    With that being said, even if such people come out of the woodwork and said that they saw the glitch and had to manually adjust, the odds that these two brothers were the ONLY two users that independently missed the Kyrie/Lamb issue seem insanely high.

  • superstars92

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    @stv1313 said...

    With that being said, even if such people come out of the woodwork and said they saw the gliche and had to manually adjust, the odds that these two brothers were the ONLY two users that independently missed the Kyrie/Lamb issue seem insanely high.

    Yea I was thinking the same thing. The family emergency reponse would have been better since that would only be unique towards them. I would agree with the sentiment above that if it was indeed a glitch (if that even happened), the chances the only two players who didn’t catch it are the two brothers is so low. If these two brothers were small time players who didn’t have 10k+ on the line, then ok, I can see that happening. But both of them have so much on the line and those 2 are the only 2 who both miss it? Seems like NoLimits and JGabby’s explanation fit the mold way better.

    EDIT: that’s part of the reason I want to know their Spencer Dinwiddie ownership for the night. You would think FC has good models if you are just going to use their optimizer so they would have spit out like nearly 100% Dinwiddie for them.

  • superstars92

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    @NoLimits0 said...

    Even in this case, how did the optimizer manage to get you 0% Kawhi a player who also theoretically shouldn’t have been Xed out but a ton of Kyrie and Lamb? And like I said that’s not believe because so many people use FC and this glitch only affected you and your brother?

    Hmm wow good point. How did it manage to get them 0% Kawhi Leonard and optimize around the fact Kawhi was out. Does FC glitch only for certain DFS players on only certain NBA players? I checked ResultsDB, looks like they both had around 80% Montrez Harrell and 20-40% Spencer Dinwiddie.

    FC must’ve been working only for the Clippers I guess since it did manage to swap out all Kawhi who was also ruled out and even gave it 80% Harrell which is the +EV move when Kawhi was out.

    I guess maybe FC also just hates the Nets and the Pacers and only glitches on two brothers. Could totally be a valid explanation. Hates Nets, Pacers, and siblings.

    (This also explains why both had like 0% both Aaron and Justin Holiday). Figured it out guys!

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