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  • rausch180

    A bit different to the usual ones, but yesterday at NBA (18th Nov) they both managed to botch their GPP entries. Cash they had 2 common builds around the 5 core plays of Doncic, Sabonis, House, TT and Dinwiddie. Nothing to see there.

    Yet in the $55 NBA $200K FINGER WAG there were 4132 entries in the GPP, of which 111 had Kyrie Irving who had long been ruled out. ChipotleAddict had 104 with Irving, papagates 7 with him, no one else had any unsurprisingly. Same deal with Jeremy Lamb long ruled out, 29 lineups had him in the GPP, 27 were ChipotleAddict and 2 were papagates. Also in the $8 NBA $400K EXCELLENT 8’S the pattern was similar.

    Once ResultsDB is updated, you’ll be able to see for yourself.

    It is very uncommon for this to happen to a max entry reg. They both had a cash lineup that appears well reacted to all the news. The question is what is the chance of both players independently making a very rare mistake and the same mistake and only in GPP? Any one have a reasonable explanation?

  • superstars92

    • 763

      RG Overall Ranking

    @jgabby said...

    FC will leave the projections that you upload. They did not upload a projection for Brogdon because he wasn’t in the lineup. This means he gets the FC default projection since they didn’t upload a projection for Brogdon. Since they didn’t upload a projection for Brogdon, he was a 0. They uploaded projections for Kyrie and Lamb in the morning but didn’t upload projections for Kyrie and Lamb after lock so the optimizer still had projections for Kyrie and Lamb.

    Optimizers do not have brains. They do not think for you. They do not cross players off for you if you tell them not to. That’s the exact opposite of what you want.

    They didn’t do anything with Brogdon because they didn’t have to. He was ALWAYS a 0

    Right so why in the world once Kyrie is ruled out would you not re-upload a projection into FC that would also not have Kyrie in the same way they excluded Brogdon? You would think if you have 2 people doing it, at least one would be doing it?

    The first thing I would do when Damian Lillard is out is like “Dame 0”, “CJ 100%.”

    Like think about it this way. Why would you upload a projection IN THE MORNING to FC when you are already using your OWN OPTIMIZER that isn’t FC? Tell me what the incentive of that even is.

    If your answer is “well they might need FC for late swap,” then literally someone with half a brain would be like once Kyrie was ruled out, let’s re-upload onto FC the new projections with Kyrie out. If you are saying both of them didn’t take the time to do so, but both took the time to upload in the morning (when it’s almost completely pointless to do so given they had their own optimizer), you see the issue here?

  • jgabby

    They don’t have to use the exact same projections for this to happen. They could use the same baseline projections then tweak from there. They definitely wouldn’t be the only ones doing this.

    Also not illegal for them to build an optimizer together that they both use that doesn’t have a late swap option. They probably aren’t the only ones either that upload projections ONLY for players in the lineup/player pool – I do this for NHL but I’ve been burned doing this in NBA so I changed that.

  • bigfink

    @fightingjohn said...

    In relation to the Awesome tweet: Ugh this guys loves to tweet his own horn. He provided no insight at all. He just said sucks to be you

    The tea drinking says it all lol

  • yisman

    @bhdevault said...

    Interesting tweet:

    https://twitter.com/AwesemoDFS/status/1197239438046384129

    I don’t find that interesting.

    All he did was publicize it by exposing a brief summary of it to people who are unaware.

    He provided zero insight, really, and did not say anything interesting or noteworthy.

    It’s basically “something happened in the DFS world, check out my site and subscribe to my stuff. Bye.”

  • jgabby

    Because they only used FC in the morning for their dummy lineups then they used their own optimizer or a different site then went back to FC for late swaptimizer…. I’ve explained this like a lot

  • Shaketiller

    I only use FC for MLB but it is really easy to run into this type of mistake. Frankly, I’m surprised it hasn’t happened more often and it speaks to how good CA/PG are at juggling FC and uploads and projections etc.

    Anyone who uses an optimizer to MME and uploads projections deals with something similar to this all the time. FC will have a glitch, DK will have a glitch, the projection site will have a glitch, your computer will have a glitch, etc etc. Uploading lineups to MME is a skill. It is not as simple as it sounds and being stuck with 150 dummy lineups isn’t that surprising. It sucks when it happens but it does happen.

    As far as similar lineups… optimizer + good projections = similar lineups. These are the best DFS players in the world. All of them usually narrow down to the same small player pool. I use Awesemo’s projections and my player pool (players actually used in 150 lus) is almost always right in line with his. We have many similar (or even identical) line ups in a 150 entry tourney. But he is very very skilled at the extra tweaks that differentiate line ups from that point. And that’s the difference from finishing 37th or winning a GPP.

    And cash games… using just the projections, it is simple to have identical (or 1 player different) lineups as most of the other pros. In fact, if I’m playing someone very good in h2h or small cash games, that swing player decision is almost always the reason I win or lose and I don’t know a single one of the DFS players personally.

  • NoLimits0

    @superstars92 said...

    Right so why in the world once Kyrie is ruled out would you not re-upload a projection into FC that would also not have Kyrie in the same way they excluded Brogdon? You would think if you have 2 people doing it, at least one would be doing it?

    The first thing I would do when Damian Lillard is out is like “Dame 0”, “CJ 100%.”

    Like think about it this way. Why would you upload a projection IN THE MORNING to FC when you are already using your OWN OPTIMIZER that isn’t FC? Tell me what the incentive of that even is.

    If your answer is “well they might need FC for late swap,” then literally someone with half a brain would be like once Kyrie was ruled out, let’s re-upload onto FC the new projections with Kyrie out. If you are saying both of them didn’t take the time to do so, but both took the time to upload in the morning (when it’s almost completely pointless to do so given they had their own optimizer), you see the issue here?

    Oh crap good point. You are right.

    Why would they even upload something into FC in the morning to begin with when they most likely don’t even use it.

    Why not just only upload a projection once you actually need it like in the late swap scenario.

    You are right they literally don’t need the FC at all. Their supposed optimizer they built themselves should be able to come up with what they need in 95% of non late swap cases.

    The fact both brothers took the time to upload something that most likely will be useless in the morning, but both didn’t re-upload when Kyrie was out, and both didn’t re-upload when it was time to actually make the late swap is super suspect.

    This only happens if it’s one person. It’s too ironic both brothers have the exact same pattern of behavior the whole day.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @stv1313 said...

    At the risk of wandering towards a grassy knoll, I’m gonna stick to an idea that two brothers are independently creating lineups using the same projection model/database. By itself, that doesn’t sound too bad. It’s crappy that they’re able to circumvent some rules with this method, but I wouldn’t call it criminal. It just sucks for the rest of us that haven’t figured how to do this effectively. :-)

    And so concludes my ranting for the day. Time to start creating/editing the one lonely lineup I plan on submitting on Fanduel and Draftkings this evening.

    LOL grassy knoll. I am not necessarily talking about these two brothers, but it is an undeniable FACT that there are people out there colluding creating 300+ lineups each and every night. It’s not some conspiracy theory that people are doing it. It is a FACT people are doing it.

    There is nothing to figure out. You have a person create 750 unique lineups then hand out 600 lineups amongst 4 other people with accounts. Why is this so shocking and considered some type of conspiracy theory that people are doing this?

  • jgabby

    Superstars,

    Let’s say you have an NBA model. You have all the starters listed in column A. You projections are in column B after all your formulas calculate everything or you hand tweak or whatever. You upload to FC. Now your starters change. Kyrie Irving is now longer in column A so there is no projection in column B. When you upload to FC, nothing tells FC to give Kyrie Irving a 0. Nothing changes with his projection in the software. He keeps his earlier projections. I don’t go through to double check anything when I upload because I upload for everyone. I don’t upload for everyone in hockey and have missed a couple times where a player who wasn’t in the lineup kept their previous projection. It’s easy to do. I know you’ve said you haven’t used FC so maybe sit this piece of the argument out

  • NoLimits0

    @bhdevault said...

    Interesting tweet:

    https://twitter.com/AwesemoDFS/status/1197239438046384129

    He only said “it’s obvious they have the same projection model”. Then goes on to say how he beats them and makes fun of them for their ROI that night and how you should subscribe to Awesemo.

    Yea duh they have the same projection model that was the obvious part. We wanted to hear more.

  • jgabby

    @NoLimits0 said...

    It’s too ironic both brothers have the exact same pattern of behavior the whole day.

    Having the same method everyday in DFS is probably part of the reason why they take everyone’s money

  • jgabby

    I’m almost 100% certain they reuploaded closer to lock as news broke then final at lock, just not through FC. Also, it’s difficult to build a late swap script so why not just use one that’s already available? Some of these arguments…

  • NoLimits0

    @jgabby said...

    Superstars,

    Let’s say you have an NBA model. You have all the starters listed in column A. You projections are in column B after all your formulas calculate everything or you hand tweak or whatever. You upload to FC. Now your starters change. Kyrie Irving is now longer in column A so there is no projection in column B. When you upload to FC, nothing tells FC to give Kyrie Irving a 0. Nothing changes with his projection in the software. He keeps his earlier projections. I don’t go through to double check anything when I upload because I upload for everyone. I don’t upload for everyone in hockey and have missed a couple times where a player who wasn’t in the lineup kept their previous projection. It’s easy to do. I know you’ve said you haven’t used FC so maybe sit this piece of the argument out

    I think his point is why would you even bother to upload onto FC when you supposedly have your own optimizer. You only do it when you need it so it just happens when both needed it they both incorrectly uploaded to the dummy lineup despite the fact at that time both would have known Kyrie was out.

    No one is saying the mistake can’t be made. The mistake is statistically unlikely to be made in the same night but yet by no one else with similar distribution of players by two brothers who clearly already share a projection model and have had previous accusations against them.

    And the defense is but Monday night football was going to start in an hour…except the Nets game was going to start in 15 mins.

    Statistically improbability is all.

    Easier explanation from previous page. Clear one brother made 300, made the mistake described, took 150, gave his brother 150. The second brother was busy doing the group NFL lineups so he didn’t bother to check so he just copied his 150. Both end up with Kyrie and Lamb. Pretty simple if you ask me.

  • NoLimits0

    @jgabby said...

    Having the same method everyday in DFS is probably part of the reason why they take everyone’s money

    No not same method. Same pattern of behavior.

    I bet their upload times are very similar too probably within 5 mins of each other in a lot of cases. Around the time to copy paste send email upload for second user.

    If it was same methods I don’t care. It’s same pattern of behavior. You and your brother pee and sleep at the same time? That’s what I mean. They not just have same methods and projections, even their mistakes and their non-mistakes overlap…

  • superstars92

    • 763

      RG Overall Ranking

    @jgabby: sorry I’m a little lost since I don’t use FC.

    Are you saying they make a dummy lineup on FC first? Why even bother to do that when their own optimizer can do that? Isn’t that an uncessary hassle that probably on average has no positive consequences and only negative consequences? This is why I don’t follow.

  • jgabby

    Ya. I meant they probably have similar patterns of behavior. Wake up early, reserve entries with dummy lineups from FC, review previous slate, dive into current slate, upload entries, hand tweak cash lineup, FC late swap any late news. Routine

  • Southie777

    All I can say is that I can’t believe that kid is cleaning up and taking everyone’s lunch money in DFS.

  • jgabby

    One reason to do this is if you want to review the previous slate. I do this for NHL. I enter everything before I’m done reviewing my model from the previous day. Also can give you a good feel for ownership for that slate

  • NoLimits0

    @jgabby said...

    Ya. I meant they probably have similar patterns of behavior. Wake up early, reserve entries with dummy lineups from FC, review previous slate, dive into current slate, upload entries, hand tweak cash lineup, FC late swap any late news. Routine

    And both make the same mistake on the same day, both properly uploading to FD but both improperly uploading to DK, both not catching the error when there is 10k+ at stake, yada yada. Typically when it’s that much of an overlap it’s because it’s one person running the show so you see the same behavior.

    Have we even confirmed they have two separate FC accounts?

  • superstars92

    • 763

      RG Overall Ranking

    @jgabby: I see, I guess I’ll sign up for it just to play around with it and see how it is. I don’t really know how to use it so that’s why I had a ton of questions.

  • jjwd

    @fightingjohn said...

    I think we need to call in Robert Stack of unsolved mysteries and CSI: Special Victims Unit to investigate the rape of the DFS system.

    wow. You need to relax buddy. So many rabid people in this thread making fools of themselves.

    1. Some whales live in a TOS grey area
    2. FC does have glitches like this

  • emnj69

    why in the world would you use a system that has glitches? once again I would love to hear from the folks at FC to see if they agree about these glitches-more than once somebody has said they have glitches.

  • superstars92

    • 763

      RG Overall Ranking

    @emnj69 said...

    why in the world would you use a system that has glitches? once again I would love to hear from the folks at FC to see if they agree about these glitches-more than once somebody has said they have glitches.

    Well the explanation given by others is the glitch was caused by a bad/non-updated upload from both brothers (indepedently of course is the “explanation”).

  • briski514

    I wanna know if they block them as much as they do me and my brother. We don’t play in the same contests, we play at totally different entry levels and different sports. But , at least once a month I have to send in my ID and bills to prove we are seperate.

  • BerkeleyBoss

    @jgabby said...

    Superstars,

    Let’s say you have an NBA model. You have all the starters listed in column A. You projections are in column B after all your formulas calculate everything or you hand tweak or whatever. You upload to FC. Now your starters change. Kyrie Irving is now longer in column A so there is no projection in column B. When you upload to FC, nothing tells FC to give Kyrie Irving a 0. Nothing changes with his projection in the software. He keeps his earlier projections. I don’t go through to double check anything when I upload because I upload for everyone. I don’t upload for everyone in hockey and have missed a couple times where a player who wasn’t in the lineup kept their previous projection. It’s easy to do. I know you’ve said you haven’t used FC so maybe sit this piece of the argument out

    Wouldn’t it be much better for them to keep Kyrie in their model with a 0 so that they’re sure he has a 0 in FC when they upload their projections?

    I’m super new to FC, but my understanding is that once you upload projections, they don’t update throughout the day like they otherwise would. Perhaps they typically do when a player is ruled out (they must since PG expected Kyrie/Lamb to have a 0 or be removed completely)?

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