INDUSTRY FORUM

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  • depalma13

    “Draftkings players with $1 Million in lifetime entry fees will not be able to play in contests that have an entry fee less than $5 AND a total prize pool less than $25,000.”

    Draftkings was so proud of their High Volume Player Restrictions designed to protect casual players that they made sure the Quarter Jukebox didn’t qualify for those restrictions and casual players can still be chum for the sharks.

    Way to go Draftkings! Great policy! Really love that you emphasized the “AND”. If it wasn’t for the bold letters, casual players might actually think they are playing with other casual players. Good thing you took the time to emphasize that word, so you can make a prize pool of a $.25 tournament large enough to invalidate the protections and feel good about the decision.

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 191

      RG Overall Ranking

    @superstars92 said...

    Issue is they aren’t even the best players. If you can enter a 1500 dollar tourney every week and max out the MM with 150 entries every week and then max or almost max out the 333 Wildcat, you better be ranked in the top 100…or that’s bad…simple math since they take the top result to determine.

    99.9% of people would get wrecked entering as many contests as they do. They are amazing at what they do there’s no denying that.

  • superstars92

    @reztes757 said...

    99.9% of people would get wrecked entering as many contests as they do. They are amazing at what they do there’s no denying that.

    Depends on the player name, but yea if you are talking about the top 10ish, I agree with that. There are a ton of max entry guys who have stopped playing though, probably due to the fact they lost a lot.

    You can actually go through ResultsDB and see that the majority of these max entry guys weren’t even up this weekend, in the QA even.

    Look at the link I posted and search like youdacao for example who also played the QA.

  • billholler

    @superstars92 said...

    There are a ton of max entry guys who have stopped playing though, probably due to the fact they lost a lot.

    It’s not polite to talk about me behind my back.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 832

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x3

      2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @joeycis said...

    While we do live in a “capitalist” country, I think you are missing the point that many people are trying to make. As a teacher, if I got offered a job in the town over for double my salary, I would certainly take it. However, me taking that job or not taking that job doesn’t impact the state of education (let’s not get too crazy over how loose this analogy is).

    Yet, when CA/PG (other pros) feast in these smaller contests, they are capitalizing on something that might not exist anymore if the ecosystem cannot be sustained. While sites love the pros paying their high rake, they will ultimately dry up if people don’t want to play anymore. I guess the argument can be made that the pros are just trying to make as much as they can before this happens, but the industry might survive if all types of players were able to play. I do think that the “pros” who are making their living off providing content, running website, or just playing should have a little foresight about the impact that this has on the industry. Then again, they just might not care.

    I think the original question has already been answered. Almost everybody here thinks that DK should do a better job of keeping the small time games for small time players. Eventually, people will get tired of depositing $20 bucks just to see the same player names eating everything up.

    Good points Joey. I can say confidently the sites are becoming more concerned about the player ecosystem now that they need to put more focus on near term viability and less focus on rapid growth. I can only make assumptions on what they’ll find, but I would assume that focus would result in more rules that improve the optics and more rules that prevent the elite players from taking funds out of the ecosystem at the rate they do currently.

    As for players self regulating, I strongly believe we can’t expect that to fix any issues. Some top players are very noble about it and set their own rules. Other top players, especially those that lived though the poker boom in the mid 2000’s, take nothing for granted and have a legit concern that this opportunity could be taken away from them at any time. I will never fault those guys for doing what the sites allow. I do think the sites need to keep taking steps to address these concerns, though. It’s a difficult thing for them while they are also dealing with dozens of other issues, but props to DK for taking the steps they’ve already taken. Keep blazing that trail DK.

  • superstars92

    @Cal said...

    As for players self regulating, I strongly believe we can’t expect that to fix any issues. Some top players are very noble about it and set their own rules.

    Which top players self-regulate? I just went through the QA on the ResultsDB, and a ton of “top players” played it. It’s easy, just like search for a person’s username on the search section and it’s clear who’s being noble or not.

  • mambaland

    when people claim these guys are amazing etc do you really know if they make money or not? Maybe they are in debt out the wazoo…anyway DK job is to make money IE profit..anyway they can and if that was not the case the rake would not be so high. Sites are supported by a group of players who play massive amounts. IF they are all winning then the sites would crash..someone is losing

  • joephoto

    @mambaland said...

    ..someone is losing

    That’s right. Some Big players are doing some losing too.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if several were chasing losses, and in large credit card/mortgage debt.

  • deejones49

    @mambaland said...

    when people claim these guys are amazing etc do you really know if they make money or not? Maybe they are in debt out the wazoo…anyway DK job is to make money IE profit..anyway they can and if that was not the case the rake would not be so high. Sites are supported by a group of players who play massive amounts. IF they are all winning then the sites would crash..someone is losing

    The way the structures are now if you max enter you need 4th to break even with the 16% rake the money dries up and most of the max entry guys will go away.

  • SkateFiend

    I play quarter games almost exclusively at DK and FD. Spending even something like 2 bucks a day at those sites is a losing proposition for casuals like me. They have no real appeal for me because I can never be competitive there. NEVER.

    Meanwhile at Yahoo, I’ve already taken down on single entry contest (meaning I won 50 bucks out of a dollar entry fee) and generally have easier time min chasing and reaching the top 30, although this NBA season is really eating into my bankroll.

    Yahoo does not allow players to use computer programs (scripts?) to manage lineups, and you can’t put in more than 20 lineups in any contest. I’m a “veteran” now (snickers) so I’m banned from entering any contests that cater to non vets.

    The difference is like night and day. Pricing is good too. I’ve been playing season long fantasy at Yahoo since the early 2000’s so maybe I’m a bit biased. But in my experience, Yahoo is fairer, a bit easier, and less infested by sharks. It’s hands down the best site for baseball. DK and FD allows you to field all star lineups even after you pay for up decent pitching.

    Other than quarter games (and occasional dollar single entry), my business with FD and DK is largely over. I won’t complain, I just moved most of my business to another site that’s doing the right thing.

  • Quadhole

    @bigez952 said...

    These guys get into every contest on the site so they must have some sort of program to auto enter everything they are eligible for.. I can’t imagine they would actively search for the quarter arcade to make sure they get their 20 entries in if they were manually picking and choosing which contests they enter.

    Of course they do, part of a service. The perfect combo of super intelligence in sports,and software, backed by an algorithm math marjor. Intertwined they are basically unstoppable. Add in that they are drawn in by the tangents of the industry, chat, specialty sites, etc. It turns into one big happy family…
    Not colluding, but the advantages are noteworthy. Really like 50 guys competing against each other with all of us in the way on occassion. You,have to be really really good to profit thru the mess.
    Like written earlier, before it drys up they are going to get rich, 100 of them on the backs 50k other guys. Then, once the law changes and gambling is allowed, they will be tge r as a legit betting site to compete with 5D.

  • Quadhole

    @mccoolio said...

    This. Bankroll matters just as much as knowledge. I’d love to know how these guys got their start. I don’t have the balls to enter any contest with high dollar entry and low entry max, I’m just a married father who plays this stuff as a hobby. Those expensive contests typically produce much lower winning scores than the $33 150 max or $8 150 max. Obviously, there are more entries so people with disposable income can take more contrarian risks that pay off.

    Investors… of you were a million or billionaire and your son told you about a guy he went to college with that was a math major and bets sports. And that he has an angle for this new thing called DFS. Would you listen to taxi cab pitch? Sure you would if u were one of these guys. This is how they got rich, having the angle and balls to do what others wont…
    Looking at your ranking, you are a good friend, and a little help away from being one of these guys yourself.
    ROI

  • BigRay

    @SkateFiend said...

    Other than quarter games (and occasional dollar single entry), my business with FD and DK is largely over. I won’t complain, I just moved most of my business to another site that’s doing the right thing.

    same here… i am at Draft now…

  • fightingjohn

    So what has CA/PG done to contribute back to the industry? Just curious

  • 2Slik

    • Ranked #14

      RG Tiered Ranking

    I think the original point of DK’s threshold of <$5 and $25k pools is the issue here. Football is a completely different animal than other sports. All games $1 and under should fall under this rule. It does open a possibility of overlay but to the advantage of feeding lower end players. Give a low end player a couple thousand and they are more likely to have a bigger uptick in action compared to a shark.

  • JHTURNER27

    @ElwoodB said...

    “The winning scores aren’t changing if you remove the top pros”

    Why not?

    Just going off the fd million for 15 weeks. Pros have rarely placed in the top 10 this year week 12 was their best week they filled up the top 50 that week. The weeks prior it was mostly newbies and semi experienced players cashing in the top 10.

  • Roma315

    Amazing this has made it to 10 pages.

  • superstars92

    So did any pros win in the QA this week?

  • billholler

    @SkateFiend said...

    Yahoo does not allow players to use computer programs (scripts?) to manage lineups, and you can’t put in more than 20 lineups in any contest.

    And their format would have already failed if it wasn’t backed by an internet giant.

  • RedBaran24

    @Roma315 said...

    Amazing this has made it to 10 pages.

    Just shows that this is an issue that a lot of players care about. The fact that PG/CA and other high level pros play in the quarter arcade is a fundamental flaw with DFS. The QA is for low level players to max enter a tournament. The pros are taking advantage of a system that allows them enter these contest. It is really DKs fault for allowing this.

  • SkateFiend

    @billholler said...

    And their format would have already failed if it wasn’t backed by an internet giant.

    I’m sure it’s a nice side business for Yahoo.

    If memory serves, Yahoo allowed 50 plus lineups in their big tournaments as recently as 2 years ago. They implemented their “fair play” rule all by themselves. Why did they voluntarily shrink everything and forbid tools used by sharks who feed bigger sites? They even have late swap.

    I suspect they wanted to get on the good side of regulators, it’s probably a smart move that will attract casual to intermediate level players.

  • billholler

    @SkateFiend said...

    I’m sure it’s a nice side business for Yahoo.

    If memory serves, Yahoo allowed 50 plus lineups in their big tournaments as recently as 2 years ago. They implemented their “fair play” rule all by themselves. Why did they voluntarily shrink everything and forbid tools used by sharks who feed bigger sites? They even have late swap.

    I suspect they wanted to get on the good side of regulators, it’s probably a smart move that will attract casual to intermediate level players.

    What attracts new players is having huge jackpot GPP payouts. The annoying DK commercials that everyone whined about never advertised signing up so you can spend $5 to win $100 (please don’t bring up the Bradley C. commercial where he said he won $349). Can’t have those huge payouts without a huge number of entries. Can’t keep filling those spots by limiting the number of entries that people are allowed to make.

    On a side note, It’s absolutely astonishing that DK’s Play Action was limited to 20 entries this season and it keeps filling but for some reason DK reduces the total prize pool each week.

    EDIT: I think the Bradley C commercial was for FanDuel

  • emnj69

    @billholler said...

    What attracts new players is having huge jackpot GPP payouts. The annoying DK commercials that everyone whined about never advertised signing up so you can spend $5 to win $100 (please don’t bring up the Bradley C. commercial where he said he won $349). Can’t have those huge payouts without a huge number of entries. Can’t keep filling those spots by limiting the number of entries that people are allowed to make.

    On a side note, It’s absolutely astonishing that DK’s Play Action was limited to 20 entries this season and it keeps filling but for some reason DK reduces the total prize pool each week.

    EDIT: I think the Bradley C commercial was for FanDuel

    the reducing prize pool sucks-I also wont enter any small prize contests not worth my time

  • MrMadness001

    Honestly are people still complaining about CA & Gates? At this point who really gives a flying fuck? I mean if it bothers you that much stop playing…period.

  • billholler

    @MrMadness001 said...

    Honestly are people still complaining about CA & Gates?

    7 months ago. Enjoy:

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/the-rise-and-the-fall-of-dfs-1884253?page=1

  • rexjred1

    @gim77us said...

    And 300 entries in 150 entry limits

    Greed is a bottomless pit. Of course they enter $.25 tournaments

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