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  • depalma13

    “Draftkings players with $1 Million in lifetime entry fees will not be able to play in contests that have an entry fee less than $5 AND a total prize pool less than $25,000.”

    Draftkings was so proud of their High Volume Player Restrictions designed to protect casual players that they made sure the Quarter Jukebox didn’t qualify for those restrictions and casual players can still be chum for the sharks.

    Way to go Draftkings! Great policy! Really love that you emphasized the “AND”. If it wasn’t for the bold letters, casual players might actually think they are playing with other casual players. Good thing you took the time to emphasize that word, so you can make a prize pool of a $.25 tournament large enough to invalidate the protections and feel good about the decision.

  • ndogg78

  • superstars92

    @reztes757 said...

    If someone really wants to make a compelling case why don’t you dig up data on the top 10-20 pros playing in the QA for the season and see what their bottom line is for the contest. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they were net negative combined if you remove CA’s first place.

    Also, the russel Westbrook comparison is just silly. A high school player would lose 1000 out of 1000 times vs him. An average joe would beat CA at a bare minimum 20% of time and probably more like 30-40% over a large sample.

    I am in total support of them not playing the QA anyways. I don’t know if this changes anything at all for anyone, but it just doesn’t sound morally right for them to play the QA. I think them playing the large 3 dollar ones is fine though. The QA just seems more of a beginner’s type of contest where people can play against others of the same level/experience. Like you said, it might not change anything in terms of payouts, probability to win, etc., but it’s just a moral thing. Besides, if they were prevented from playing the QA and it doesn’t change any of the payouts, probability to win, etc., then it shouldn’t hurt anyone to do so. The contest should still fill up.

    For my point, I guess I was referring to like top HS recruits like Marvin Bagley last year, who I think would have a legit chance to beat a few decent NBA players 1 on 1 already, and can definitely beat Westbrook more than 0 times out of 100 times. Pretty sure a lot of these players play pickup with NBA players often. I know at UCLA, they played vs. Lebron/Aaron Gordon and they actually won (although I doubt LBJ was trying 100%). But yea, I get your point. I guess I am just trying to say some people actually might argue it’s good they play so you can learn from them (regardless of skill, it could just be a normal guy with no NBA aspirations). Just trying to stay objective. I believe Andy from his “Fade the Chalk” blog would agree here.

  • bugzzie75

    Sorry, but I disagree. People are complaining because their systems of research is not working. People are also complaining because they’re shelling out $300-$500 yearly for advice that’s not instantly winning them the Millimaker. So naturally, those who consistently lose to a perceived cheater, and/or follow sports teams who lose to the dominate franchises do what they’ve done since caveman roamed the lands….We shake our fist, complain and say the system isn’t fair.

    Now, it’s widly known to those who’ve played DFS long enough who to avoid. Also, draft kings enacted a badge system to further aid in avoiding “sharks”. But the majority here will not be happy till those who discovered success are handcuffed and limiting in their entries and amounts.

    Unfortunately, it’s not the casually, “hey, that doctor in those DK commercials is really funny, I’ll deposit a one time amount of $25.” Sadly No, DFS companies in infant stages long game must be Profitability, and the ability to sustain. With that said, they’re ultimately dependent on the heavy hitters (Rake). Do you think Vegas/Atlantic City became uber successful by catering to the whimsical complants and rants of Small fish in it’s infant stage? No, But now it’s possible, because they’ve grown to the point where everyone can enjoy their casinos.

    In my opinion, If you want to build a bankroll avoid blood infested waters….also known as Multi-Entry GPPs. If that’s the Strategy, you’ll always be chaseing the golden carrot. I recommend paying single entry GPP’s, single entry 50/50’s/Double up’s.

  • NoLimits0

    @bugzzie75 said...

    Sorry, but I disagree. People are complaining because their systems of research is not working. People are also complaining because they’re shelling out $300-$500 yearly for advice that’s not instantly winning them the Millimaker. So naturally, those who consistently lose to a perceived cheater, and/or follow sports teams who lose to the dominate franchises do what they’ve done since caveman roamed the lands….We shake our fist, complain and say the system isn’t fair.

    Now, it’s widly known to those who’ve played DFS long enough who to avoid. Also, draft kings enacted a badge system to further aid in avoiding “sharks”. But the majority here will not be happy till those who discovered success are handcuffed and limiting in their entries and amounts.

    Unfortunately, it’s not the casually, “hey, that doctor in those DK commercials is really funny, I’ll deposit a one time amount of $25.” Sadly No, DFS companies in infant stages long game must be Profitability, and the ability to sustain. With that said, they’re ultimately dependent on the heavy hitters (Rake). Do you think Vegas/Atlantic City became uber successful by catering to the whimsical complants and rants of Small fish in it’s infant stage? No, But now it’s possible, because they’ve grown to the point where everyone can enjoy their casinos.

    In my opinion, If you want to build a bankroll avoid blood infested waters….also known as Multi-Entry GPPs. If that’s the Strategy, you’ll always be chaseing the golden carrot. I recommend paying single entry GPP’s, single entry 50/50’s/Double up’s.

    Nobody disagrees with you. Losers will always have something to complain about. However that doesn’t mean their complaint isn’t valid. Some complaints here aren’t but others I can see that their valid. Sure if the OP had won the QA, he wouldn’t have posted, but often times change is started because people complain a situation that’s negative for them.

    Who pays 300-500 anyways though. I feel like that’s why overstated. Are you using rotoql or something?

  • Njsum1

    This ridiculous thread has gone on long enough. The cash lines in the QA and $3 to $10 tournaments are almost identical. The QA is not for beginners, it’s for people who enjoy DFS yet don’t want to or can’t afford to spend more than $5 per night on DFS, or just like to risk small amounts, yet like to make a lot of lineups. I don’t care who plays against me in any QA I enter, especially when any pro can only enter the same 20 lineups as me. I don’t need protection from the sharks, nor does anyone else when a maximum of $5 is at stake. Good for any top pro who can bink a QA. The odds are astronically stacked against you when you have a 1 in 8000 shot of winning (20 out of 160,000). What I want is bigger QAs, let all the sharks in. The QA is the closest thing you’ll find to a meritocracy in DFS as no one can push anyone else around with their bankroll. Why do people think they need protection in what is a level playing field, it just sounds so weak. If you got 5 bucks, newbee or pro, build some lineups and let’s go go go.

  • jmo26

    @fightingjohn said...

    Aww the CA / PG debacle over again!!! I think we can all agree that they do talk to each other on a daily basis in some form. Are they taking advantage of the system??? Heck yea they are and they are know it. They do just enough that stay in the “guidelines” of the site, so they can’t be really touched.

    Not so sure they’re staying within the guidelines — the sites just aren’t holding them accountable.

  • bugzzie75

    Low end DFS sub sites charge $35 per month x 12 months=$425. There are sites charging as much as $55 per month.

  • rausch180

    To play devil’s advocate, I don’t know if it was the same last week, but this week the QA is 20 entry max and 142.6k entries to fill, which presumably it does. DK must have set the cutoff as they did because they believed the number of pros would be so diluted that it wasn’t going to matter (rightly or wrongly). How many pros are there in it? If it’s 50 then they’ll make up 1k entries or 0.7%. 100 and it’s 1.4% and so on.

    From a quick look at a sample of the current entrants about 45% have no badge and after DK being open for so many years now, presumably if people are going to the lengths of reading and writing on this forum and others, they probably have a badge of some sort. With it more experience than someone with no badge at all. Rake is 15.9%. For someone to reach breakeven over the season, you’re needing someone else to pay that 15.9% in their losses.

    So I guess the questions are, who are more damaging in the QA? The 1 percent or anyone that’s got the 1k contest badges? They make up a much larger group and presumably the losses are more predominately found in the no badge players as a group compared to them. Should DK just go further and say no pro should be allowed in anything under $5 and also no one with the top experience badges should be in anything under $1?

  • Njsum1

    @rausch180 said...

    So I guess the questions are, who are more damaging in the QA? The 1 percent or anyone that’s got the 1k contest badges? They make up a much larger group and presumably the losses are more predominately found in the no badge players as a group compared to them. Should DK just go further and say no pro should be allowed in anything under $5 and also no one with the top experience badges should be in anything under $1?

    All a badge means is that you played a certain number of contests. It doesn’t mean you’re a winning player. Also do you have evidence that it is the players with badges that do most of the winning…it actually doesn’t matter anyway. A lot of people with badges playing the QA got them by playing the QA. You only need to max the QA for 50 nights to get a badge, it certainly doesn’t mean anything as far as skill goes. If you’re worried about protecting newer players, A better solution would be to expand the number of beginners contests offered.

    Either way as I said earlier, the QA is the closest thing to a meritocracy in DFS and anyone should be allowed to play. Also a lot of players play the QA because that’s what they can afford to play. Forcing someone to play above their comfort zone, just because they’ve been playing a while is also unfair.

  • rausch180

    I don’t have any evidence of winrate by badge, it was an assumption. Could well be wrong. So could the assumption that the pros are winning at NFL I guess. There is a twitter account that has been sharing the results from the main tournaments and some really big names have been getting absolutely smashed all season. Maybe they are pros at the other sports, but play NFL for fun as well? In any case they make up such a small % of the QA that I wondered whether it actually mattered, compared to bigger groups of people that have above average ability, when people are talking about pros being bad for ecosystem.

  • billholler

    For anyone that read my previous post about cash games….Tonight I was in 11 double ups. All were 11 player DU’s from $25 to $100. Every single one of them was occupied by CA, awesemo, Rexgrossman and youdacao. I cashed in all 11. Youdacao had a terrible lineup and finished last in a few of them.
    For snorts and giggles, I played one H2H against Papagates using the same LU. Let’s just say it didn’t go too well.

  • nbkblaze1

    All the newer players frustrated with this, play more single entry and don’t be afraid to challenge the top players h2h. You’d be surprised to see how much single entry levels the playing field against the “sharks”. Instead of trying to win an insane amount of money in MME GPP focus more on contest selection and learn to manage your risk.

  • Blahaaron

    @nbkblaze1 said...

    All the newer players frustrated with this, play more single entry and don’t be afraid to challenge the top players h2h. You’d be surprised to see how much single entry levels the playing field against the “sharks”. Instead of trying to win an insane amount of money in MME GPP focus more on contest selection and learn to manage your risk.

    Yep. Contest selection is key. I get torn apart on anything more than a dollar game it seems. When I play a $3 Sniper I lose 4 out of every 5 times. And when I win its usually just the bare min at $6.
    So I lose and lose and lose money. Yeah the $1000 top prize can be very enticing but I will likely never win that. Whereas I do much better when I play hip checks.
    It is smart to be realistic about your skills as a player. Venturing out is fine once in a while. But don’t make it a habit.

  • billholler

    @nbkblaze1 said...

    All the newer players frustrated with this, play more single entry

    Yes, spend $5 trying to win $200 instead of spending $5 for a chance at $100k. Sounds like fun.

  • bigez952

    @billholler said...

    Yes, spend $5 trying to win $200 instead of spending $5 for a chance at $100k. Sounds like fun.

    It is especially fun when you play single entry and the guy who won a few hundred in the low dollar single entry game outscores the winner of that week’s Millionaire maker. I play mainly small single entry games and have seen that happen a couple of times.

  • gim77us

    • 919

      RG Overall Ranking

    @Blahaaron said...

    Yep. Contest selection is key. I get torn apart on anything more than a dollar game it seems. When I play a $3 Sniper I lose 4 out of every 5 times. And when I win its usually just the bare min at $6.
    So I lose and lose and lose money. Yeah the $1000 top prize can be very enticing but I will likely never win that. Whereas I do much better when I play hip checks.
    It is smart to be realistic about your skills as a player. Venturing out is fine once in a while. But don’t make it a habit.

    This isn’t entirely accurate. The money line on low dollar single entry gpp’s can actually be higher than large field multi entry tournaments at a higher dollar entry. And if it isn’t, it certainly isn’t a incredibly large variance between the two.

  • NoLimits0

    So no one is gonna make a thread today about how Chipotle and Papagates are down at least 500k today? Possibly 1 million but didn’t look through all the smaller and cash game contest.

    You can easily calculate their ROI in the 1500 tourney. 222 entries between them for a 333k buy in. Making like 60-70k back from that tournament. That’s -250k from that tournament alone.

    I just did a few links saw they are already down 500k. Probably if I did all the entries possibly down a million today.

    But no ones gonna make a thread to complain?

    Oh but for all the uniformed people, their “ranking” won’t be hurt because RG takes the best result. When you enter 111 times into the 1500 tourney your best result will still be decent and since it’s a 1500 tourney it’s worth a lot…but their ROI this week. Pretty terrible. Overall they are good though way better than like Saahil.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @NoLimits0 said...

    So no one is gonna make a thread today about how Chipotle and Papagates are down at least 500k today? Possibly 1 million but didn’t look through all the smaller and cash game contest.

    You can easily calculate their ROI in the 1500 tourney. 222 entries between them for a 333k buy in. Making like 60-70k back from that tournament. That’s -250k from that tournament alone.

    I just did a few links saw they are already down 500k. Probably if I did all the entries possibly down a million today.

    But no ones gonna make a thread to complain?

    Oh but for all the uniformed people, their “ranking” won’t be hurt because RG takes the best result. When you enter 111 times into the 1500 tourney your best result will still be decent and since it’s a 1500 tourney it’s worth a lot…but their ROI this week. Pretty terrible. Overall they are good though way better than like Saahil.

    Being allowed to spend over 500k in entries is laughable tho and is not really dfs. Such a far cry from what draftstreet was. I’m still not sure why draftkings bought draftstreet they ruined a really good product for greed.

  • depalma13

    @NoLimits0 said...

    So no one is gonna make a thread today about how Chipotle and Papagates are down at least 500k today? Possibly 1 million but didn’t look through all the smaller and cash game contest.

    You can easily calculate their ROI in the 1500 tourney. 222 entries between them for a 333k buy in. Making like 60-70k back from that tournament. That’s -250k from that tournament alone.

    I just did a few links saw they are already down 500k. Probably if I did all the entries possibly down a million today.

    But no ones gonna make a thread to complain?

    Oh but for all the uniformed people, their “ranking” won’t be hurt because RG takes the best result. When you enter 111 times into the 1500 tourney your best result will still be decent and since it’s a 1500 tourney it’s worth a lot…but their ROI this week. Pretty terrible. Overall they are good though way better than like Saahil.

    Well, maybe if Draftkings kept them out of the Quarter Jukebox, they would only be down $499,990 today.

  • NoLimits0

    @depalma13 said...

    Well, maybe if Draftkings kept them out of the Quarter Jukebox, they would only be down $499,990 today.

    Right but you understand the point of my post right? They’ve been entering the QA every week this year but this thread was only made after they won the QA. Why wasn’t a thread made complaining for all the weeks prior that they’ve been entering? Maybe if this was brought up earlier they wouldn’t have been able to enter the day they won.

    Things get brought up only when they win. Why not bring it up when they lose? Because the biggest reason for people complaining isn’t the moral or ethical issue. It’s the fact they lose and they need to complain about the winners, CA and papa in this case.

    Anyways you guys can all rejoice you all made more than them this week. Lets all hope it happens next week too. It’s always good for the common man when the pros lose so I’m with you guys there.

  • yisman

    cheating doesn’t mean you win every time

    it just gives you a better chance in the long term

    No one here made the claim that CA/Papa wins every single contest or every single day.

    teams of players colluding at poker or blackjack (card counting teams) don’t win every single session. Sometimes they lose money. Crazy, I know.

  • T0mmyJ0hnZipper

    DFS will be raked and colluded into a pre mature death. It has accelerated more this year in NFL than any other. NFL politics has hurt it as well. Empty stadiums are everywhere. Sad. http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017/12/17/weak-15-ratings-crashing-players-kneeling-fans-leaving-empty-seats-stadiums-everywhere/

  • NoLimits0

    @yisman said...

    cheating doesn’t mean you win every time

    it just gives you a better chance in the long term

    No one here made the claim that CA/Papa wins every single contest or every single day.

    teams of players colluding at poker or blackjack (card counting teams) don’t win every single session. Sometimes they lose money. Crazy, I know.

    And you miss the point of my post….we are talking about entering the QA not colluding here.

    The post about them entering the QA only occurred after they won the QA. Make that post in week 1, the first week they entered the QA and maybe DK does something about it to prevent them from entering the week they win. But nope only complain once they win the QA. Be more proactive and we could’ve banned them from the QA earlier. Don’t wait until they’ve already won.

  • billholler

    @NoLimits0 said...

    And you miss the point of my post….we are talking about entering the QA not colluding here.

    The post about them entering the QA only occurred after they won the QA.

    Clearly you are missing the point. This has been the topic of multiple threads here. I don’t give a shit how much they lost today. If you can afford to risk half a million a day, there is absolutely no point in entering contests that were clearly intended for beginners and people with real jobs but lower incomes. We know that it isn’t a DK violation. No need to regurgitate it over and over again. The whole point of this thread is why does DK still allow it?

  • NoLimits0

    @billholler said...

    Clearly you are missing the point. This has been the topic of multiple threads here. I don’t give a shit how much they lost today. If you can afford to risk half a million a day, there is absolutely no point in entering contests that were clearly intended for beginners and people with real jobs but lower incomes. We know that it isn’t a DK violation. No need to regurgitate it over and over again. The whole point of this thread is why does DK still allow it?

    Where were you in week 1 when they entered the QA? Where were you in week 2? Week 3? Why did you guys all come out after the week they won the QA. Why isn’t there a thread complaining about how youdacao is max entering the QA when he has millions? Oh wait that’s right he didn’t win.

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