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  • depalma13

    “Draftkings players with $1 Million in lifetime entry fees will not be able to play in contests that have an entry fee less than $5 AND a total prize pool less than $25,000.”

    Draftkings was so proud of their High Volume Player Restrictions designed to protect casual players that they made sure the Quarter Jukebox didn’t qualify for those restrictions and casual players can still be chum for the sharks.

    Way to go Draftkings! Great policy! Really love that you emphasized the “AND”. If it wasn’t for the bold letters, casual players might actually think they are playing with other casual players. Good thing you took the time to emphasize that word, so you can make a prize pool of a $.25 tournament large enough to invalidate the protections and feel good about the decision.

  • jv21

    I find this disappointing. I believe dfs can be won with some skill and Draftkings is a good product that even casual players can play. But its unfortunate that the reality of dfs is that the game is catered to the high roller even though they advertise to the casual player. The game really rewards risk that the causal player can’t do week in and out. Even though this contest was 25 cents, its already one of the most ruthless contest out there and having the pros play them too just make dfs more discouraging.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @phillygamecox said...

    As much as this whole situation rubs me the wrong way, they are playing within the rules posted by the sites

    Yes, the rules should be changed. But in the meantime people making $1 million + profit a year at DFS should not be playing in a $.25 contests. People seemingly intelligent enough to be at the top of DFS should have enough sense not to do this.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @Roma315 said...

    High rollers aren’t sitting at the $1/2nl table or playing the .25 slots.

    Which further backs up my point about the time factor. If they had to enter each contest by hand everyday, no way would they play in the $.25 contest. So for those not smart enough to police themselves, there needs to be rules in place for those types of people.

  • Lipscore22

    I’m just out here focused on what to do with the money in my pocket. Not trying to control other people’s pockets.

  • phillygamecox

    @thedude404 said...

    Yes, the rules should be changed. But in the meantime people making $1 million + profit a year at DFS should not be playing in a $.25 contests. People seemingly intelligent enough to be at the top of DFS should have enough sense not to do this.

    Believe me, I agree with you 100% which is the main purpose of my post. I find it ridiculous that someone would think entering the .25 tourney with the amount of bankroll played each week is a wise play conducive to the growth of DFS. But, at the end of the day it’s up to the sites to do something about it – and I wouldn’t hold my breath. They have CONSTANTLY been reactive versus proactive which is why growth is in the toilet, and contests are a shell of what they used to be paying out high amounts to 1st and then basically getting your buy-in back for 10th.

    Until the sites change, pros will continually look for whatever edge possible and that’s unfortunately just the way it’s been and always will be.

  • JMAC126

    I don’t think the issue is him playing the contests. The issue is that he plays with a partner and they consistently have similar player pools without lineup overlap. What’s the point of a max entry if DK is just going to allow people to circumvent it like this?

  • Njsum1

    @Roma315 said...

    High rollers aren’t sitting at the $1/2nl table or playing the .25 slots.

    I’m not defending or condemning high rollers playing the QA, yet this is a bad argument, as its an apples to oranges comparison, and I’ve seen it argued time and time again.

    It is nothing like a poker pro sitting at a low dollar table, absolutely nothing, for so many reasons, and I’ll name just a few. First of all, if a poker pro could make a robot that plays exactly like they do, you’d see cardrooms filled with a bunch of robots, playing low stakes tables. The fact is a poker pro can only be in one place at one time, unlike a DFS pro, and would unlikely be able to make a living playing only low stakes tables. Second, The rake in poker is signicantly less than in DFS. Third, wealthy people with little poker skill will sit down at high stakes poker tables for either the thrill of playing against a known pro or because they don’t care about the money. Almost everyone who plays high stakes DFS knows what they’re doing. People of equal skill can’t just be playing other people of equal skill or else they’ll just be trading rake and no one will profit.

  • Messiah717

    It’s like I said it all boils down to greed. This is not the only guy who does stuff like this. It’s the same thing also when certain pros running around sucking up every low level head to head contest as well. As someone mentioned there’s a certain NHL DFS player that does this continuously and wins heavily across all platforms. Worse yet is he enters free contests as well to collect those scraps too.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 399

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @thedude404 said...

    Yes, the rules should be changed. But in the meantime people making $1 million + profit a year at DFS should not be playing in a $.25 contests. People seemingly intelligent enough to be at the top of DFS should have enough sense not to do this.

    Those players would have a sound argument that even if they stopped their peers would continue. Some players already self regulate for the good of the ecosystem, but it’s never going to happen for all of them. The sites have to set the rules.

  • SA16

    That is a difference. And a problem. But to think that he should not play a contest he is eligible to play in is an absurd statement. I used to play in contests less than 5 dollars. They were high EV and vs. tons of randoms. Then DK made the rule that high volume players are unable to do so anymore and now I can’t. As long as the site allows him to play in these contests there is absolutely no reason that he should not do so. It’s +EV for him no matter how small the EV is and it is simply a couple mouseclicks unlike in poker where playing low stakes doens’t make sense if you’re a high stakes player since you have to actively focus on the game.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @Lipscore22 said...

    I’m just out here focused on what to do with the money in my pocket. Not trying to control other people’s pockets.

    What if you were told this type of activity is limiting the number of new players in DFS? What if you were told this type of activity is making losing players quit faster when they see this? Would that convince you that this is affecting the money in your pocket? Or would you rather have your DFS contests filled with only winning DFS players? Even if you are a winning player, this type of activity DOES affect the money in your pocket.

    It seems as though you can’t get past the thought process that rules mean control and are a negative when in fact rules are sometimes used to protect or improve an entire community so that everyone in the end benefits. In this case we would get more new players and losing players would be more convinced to keep playing if the top DFS players were kept out of the low dollar games. Meanwhile, it would be easier for a new player to succeed and to be able to move up in stakes. The higher stakes players benefit by getting more new players which means bigger tournaments and less skilled players. Everybody wins.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @SA16 said...

    That is a difference. And a problem. But to think that he should not play a contest he is eligible to play in is an absurd statement. I used to play in contests less than 5 dollars. They were high EV and vs. tons of randoms. Then DK made the rule that high volume players are unable to do so anymore and now I can’t. As long as the site allows him to play in these contests there is absolutely no reason that he should not do so. It’s +EV for him no matter how small the EV is and it is simply a couple mouseclicks unlike in poker where playing low stakes doens’t make sense if you’re a high stakes player since you have to actively focus on the game.

    You are actually making the case for why there SHOULD be rules against top DFS players playing in $.25 games. Poker doesnt need that type of rule because players with huge bankrolls arent going to waste their TIME playing in $.01/$.02 games. There is no TIME constraint in DFS as you can instantaneously enter games. That is EXACTLY why DFS needs a rule to regulate this. In fact, I cant think of another game where this type of rule needs to be implemented. Maybe thats why so many people are so adverse to it because it is a concept they are unfamiliar with. But DFS is different from other games exactly because of TIME. Or should I say that Draftkings and Fanduel have turned DFS into a game that doesnt require as much time due to them allowing automation in lineup entering and there being computer programs to come up with lineups. I’m not going to sit here and debate that….it is what it is. But due to this automation and computerization factor that means that some types of controls need to be in place.

    If there was no such time constraint in poker, how long do you think the poker economy would last? In other words, what if Doug Polk could unleash a million Doug Polk robots across poker rooms? How long would the game of poker last? You have to remember that the game of poker has been around for quite a while and the economy has done well and survived. DFS has been around for what like 5 years and the ecosystem is already screwed up because up until recently, there were no constraints and the ones in place now are for the most part poor.

  • boogereatingmoron

    • 2019 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

  • SA16

    @thedude404 said...

    You are actually making the case for why there SHOULD be rules against top DFS players playing in $.25 games. Poker doesnt need that type of rule because players with huge bankrolls arent going to waste their TIME playing in $.01/$.02 games. There is no TIME constraint in DFS as you can instantaneously enter games. That is EXACTLY why DFS needs a rule to regulate this. In fact, I cant think of another game where this type of rule needs to be implemented. Maybe thats why so many people are so adverse to it because it is a concept they are unfamiliar with. But DFS is different from other games exactly because of TIME. Or should I say that Draftkings and Fanduel have turned DFS into a game that doesnt require as much time due to them allowing automation in lineup entering and there being computer programs to come up with lineups. I’m not going to sit here and debate that….it is what it is. But due to this automation and computerization factor that means that some types of controls need to be in place.

    If there was no such time constraint in poker, how long do you think the poker economy would last? In other words, what if Doug Polk could unleash a million Doug Polk robots across poker rooms? How long would the game of poker last? You have to remember that the game of poker has been around for quite a while and the economy has done well and survived. DFS has been around for what like 5 years and the ecosystem is already screwed up because up until recently, there were no constraints and the ones in place now are for the most part poor.

    I said right in my second sentence that I think it’s a problem. There should be rules limiting it. There aren’t though and as long as there aren’t there is no reason for him not to play this tournament.

  • depalma13

    I didn’t start this thread to debate whether it is right or wrong for ChipotleAddict to be playing in the game because it is +EV.

    This is about Draftkings running $.25 contests that circumvent the rules they put in place to protect casual and small time players. They made a big deal about these rules and how they were going to benefit their customers by protecting them from professionals. Instead of actually following through with those protections, they set a trap.

    They should never run a $.25 gpp with a prize pool over $25,000. Never, not once. At least not until they raise the limit that stops the ChipotleAddict’s of the DFS world from entering these contests.

  • biglucky

    • x2

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    They have every right to play in every game that they are allowed to play in as long as they pay the entry fee like everyone else. They also have the right to circumvent entry limits/use colluding practices if they so choose just like all of us do. With that being said DK and FD hold the only say that matters in whether they approve or disapprove of their tactics/practices as there is no body or group in place to monitor the activities of players except the players themselves which ultimately have no say.

  • WidumBoise

    @RikkiDee said...

    can we ban them from all games while we are at it?

  • superstars92

    • 778

      RG Overall Ranking

    @depalma13 said...

    I didn’t start this thread to debate whether it is right or wrong for ChipotleAddict to be playing in the game because it is +EV.

    This is about Draftkings running $.25 contests that circumvent the rules they put in place to protect casual and small time players. They made a big deal about these rules and how they were going to benefit their customers by protecting them from professionals. Instead of actually following through with those protections, they set a trap.

    They should never run a $.25 gpp with a prize pool over $25,000. Never, not once. At least not until they raise the limit that stops the ChipotleAddict’s of the DFS world from entering these contests.

    While I agree ChipotleAddict probably should not be playing in these $0.25 contests, I don’t understand what trap you are referring to?

    I bet the QA for NFL possibly is the only QA that ChipotleAddict can even play in. Is the NBA QA big enough? I don’t think so, so I think the NFL QA is possibly the only one. This already prevents ChipotleAddict from playing in almost all small double ups (0-5 dollar double ups except for the giant one) since almost all of them won’t have a $25,000 prize pool. That’s more than enough for small timers to build up a bankroll, since double ups are the easiest way to do so and you don’t have to worry about ChiptoleAddict/youdacao/etc.

    So I don’t think there are any traps that you speak of…just be grateful CA is already banned from almost every single under 5 dollar entry contest except for the huge QAs and the huge 1 and 3 dollar contests and the giant 2 dollar double up, all of which also already have a 20 max entry limit which hurts him too.

  • texasrangersfan

    The only way to have a chance is play in the single entries. Then you are at least 1 lineup vs their 2 lineups.

  • Sacfly

    So for $5 the average player can play against the best players in the world on a level playing field and see how he or she stacks up? Not only that they can learn from the best players by studying their playing techniques? It sounds like a pretty good deal to me so I say let them continue to play. Not only that the odds of him (or any one else max entering) winning was only .00012%.

  • tristanwolf

    @Sacfly said...

    So for $5 the average player can play against the best players in the world on a level playing field and see how he or she stacks up? Not only that they can learn from the best players by studying their playing techniques? It sounds like a pretty good deal to me so I say let them continue to play. Not only that the odds of him (or any one else max entering) winning was only .00012%.

    they max out unique lineups so they have double the allowable amount we all do. i could do it with my brother but i have an ethical backbone.

  • Blahaaron

    @Messiah717 said...

    It’s like I said it all boils down to greed. This is not the only guy who does stuff like this. It’s the same thing also when certain pros running around sucking up every low level head to head contest as well. As someone mentioned there’s a certain NHL DFS player that does this continuously and wins heavily across all platforms. Worse yet is he enters free contests as well to collect those scraps too.

    Yeah, that nhl dfs person if we are talking about the same player wins a hip check and quarter jukebox once a week while mass entering every single other contest there is. Pisses me off.

  • Blahaaron

    @biglucky said...

    They have every right to play in every game that they are allowed to play in as long as they pay the entry fee like everyone else. They also have the right to circumvent entry limits/use colluding practices if they so choose just like all of us do. With that being said DK and FD hold the only say that matters in whether they approve or disapprove of their tactics/practices as there is no body or group in place to monitor the activities of players except the players themselves which ultimately have no say.

    Nobody has “the right” to cheat. A right is something that is owed or allowed to people.

  • Blahaaron

    @Sacfly said...

    So for $5 the average player can play against the best players in the world on a level playing field and see how he or she stacks up? Not only that they can learn from the best players by studying their playing techniques? It sounds like a pretty good deal to me so I say let them continue to play. Not only that the odds of him (or any one else max entering) winning was only .00012%.

    What exactly can you learn? One guy likes to line match, another likes to game stack, and some other guy likes to pick randomly, probably from a computer program. None of it matters because every night is a different outcome. Yes, some games beg for a stack. But you don’t learn that by studying the dfs players. You learn that by reading the numbers and which games are going to have the most goals and which players are hot.

  • Mindofigor

    You do realize there’s a button that lets you bulk enter every contest right? With the money they’re putting up daily, I’m pretty sure that’s what they are doing. Why would they worry about the fish when clearly DK doesn’t?

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