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  • depalma13

    “Draftkings players with $1 Million in lifetime entry fees will not be able to play in contests that have an entry fee less than $5 AND a total prize pool less than $25,000.”

    Draftkings was so proud of their High Volume Player Restrictions designed to protect casual players that they made sure the Quarter Jukebox didn’t qualify for those restrictions and casual players can still be chum for the sharks.

    Way to go Draftkings! Great policy! Really love that you emphasized the “AND”. If it wasn’t for the bold letters, casual players might actually think they are playing with other casual players. Good thing you took the time to emphasize that word, so you can make a prize pool of a $.25 tournament large enough to invalidate the protections and feel good about the decision.

  • Blahaaron

    And yeah I think another nhl dfs shark was playing on someone elses account. The same lineup that was in the top 5 in the quarter jukebox and hip check was in a $8 dollar game too under their regular screename. Nobody else had that lineup and it had players that hardly anyone else was picking. But there really isn’t anything you can do about that. I can’t prove it was them but it looks like it was.

  • biglucky

    • x2

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    They do have the right to cheat its up to the sites if they tolerate it.

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    Funny how there aren’t any forum posts or threads when high volume players place in the bottom quartile of a tournament. Maybe people here should either 1) work harder on creating and refining better lineups and/or 2) max enter the the Quarter Arcade. That would put you on the same footing as every other max entry player.

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 122

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #76

      RG Tiered Ranking

    NFL season wouldn’t be complete without a thread accusing ca/pa of cheating. Never would have guessed it would have been for quarter arcade collusion though.

  • Dunzor

    @reztes757 said...

    NFL season wouldn’t be complete without a thread accusing ca/pa of cheating. Never would have guessed it would have been for quarter arcade collusion though.

    I don’t think the point of the thread was to say they were cheating in any way…everyone agrees they were well within their rights to play the QA and win it. The point of the thread is that many believe the sites themselves shouldn’t allow the high dollar players to join the micro stakes tournaments as those are really designed for newer players or those with a limited bankroll. The thread is really targeted at the sites, not at the player.

  • Lipscore22

    @thedude404 said...

    What if you were told this type of activity is limiting the number of new players in DFS? What if you were told this type of activity is making losing players quit faster when they see this? Would that convince you that this is affecting the money in your pocket? Or would you rather have your DFS contests filled with only winning DFS players? Even if you are a winning player, this type of activity DOES affect the money in your pocket.

    It seems as though you can’t get past the thought process that rules mean control and are a negative when in fact rules are sometimes used to protect or improve an entire community so that everyone in the end benefits. In this case we would get more new players and losing players would be more convinced to keep playing if the top DFS players were kept out of the low dollar games. Meanwhile, it would be easier for a new player to succeed and to be able to move up in stakes. The higher stakes players benefit by getting more new players which means bigger tournaments and less skilled players. Everybody wins.

    I don’t play DSF for everyone to win. I play for me to win and make the games that I don’t care about more interesting. This isn’t a community. It’s me, and in your case you, against everyone else. I hope this business model changes and improves so the industry will survive. However, I’ll never throw stones at people for winning more than me, and if the sites shut down it will not be the big winners fault.

  • billholler

    @reztes757 said...

    NFL season wouldn’t be complete without a thread accusing ca/pa of cheating. Never would have guessed it would have been for quarter arcade collusion though.

    This is at least the 5th one this season. You must not have been here much lately.

  • RedBaran24

    One thing I have noticed is that this week’s NFL main Slate on DK is offering contests where the prize pools are much lower than previous weeks. I think that unless DK does something about CA/PG and other sharks who enter every contests they are eligible for, the casual players who are needed for these gpps to fill and grow will continue to walk/run away.

  • sethfein

    @sochoice said...

    Funny how there aren’t any forum posts or threads when high volume players place in the bottom quartile of a tournament. Maybe people here should either 1) work harder on creating and refining better lineups and/or 2) max enter the the Quarter Arcade. That would put you on the same footing as every other max entry player.

    Response to #1 about “work harder”:

    Looking for someone with R + Python knowledge and an extensive background in scripting/building out statistical models.

    May need to be willing to create 2v2 lineups to get 300 lineup exposure as oppose to the max 150 most are subject to

    Must also quit job and devote full-time to DFS. If you can’t give 10+ hours a day to research, then you shouldn’t be in DFS (just like the commercials showing average Joes winning let you know!)

    For those who want to play DFS but have a full-time job like 95% of people that play, maybe throw a few dollars into a tournament for fun, just “work harder” and “build smarter” and you too can win. Don’t complain that guys are throwing in lineups they built for high stakes tournaments into QA just because all it takes is a script update for them to do so. Put your entire life to the side and work harder to beat them.

    It’s so easy!!

  • BigRay

    play DRAFT….you won’t have to worry about sharks.

  • CountKarma

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    As a low-volume DFS player, I hate to play devil’s advocate but I have to side with DK in most instances here..

    For one, sharks are their main business. At the end of the day, we likely couldn’t have such large prize pools (Milly Maker for example) if it weren’t for allowing a certain level of volume be attained by pros who flood the market.

    Yes, it is quite frustrating to see the same names at the top of high or low stake leaderboards, multi-millionaires showing up in quarter arcade or low dollar contests as well. But would these contests fill without full-time, high volume players or would they consistently fight overlay?

    Just trying to make a point, that if DK puts too many restrictions on the sharks, the leverage they have goes away, as does their business, then DK suffers a blow and decreases prize pools etc. Be thankful you have the choice to play for your shot at a million each week while watching a sport we all love.

    Painstakingly long hours of research won’t always win you a GPP, but at the end of the day our odds of hitting the perfect lineup are the same as the sharks,’ they are simply using their bankroll to their advantage. Poker players, DFS pros, Day traders, they all started small, and while it is increasingly more difficult to build a bank roll, nothing is stopping you from taking the same path that they did.

    I am in no way conflating my opinion on volume/contest restrictions with my opinion on collusion, which is an entirely different conversation regarding ChipotleAddict and Papagates

  • Gathman78

    @sochoice said...

    Funny how there aren’t any forum posts or threads when high volume players place in the bottom quartile of a tournament. Maybe people here should either 1) work harder on creating and refining better lineups and/or 2) max enter the the Quarter Arcade. That would put you on the same footing as every other max entry player.

    Ah, there it is. The “build better lineups” comment, yet more eloquently typed out.

  • edro990

    Not going to read through this entire thread so I apologize if this was already said. CA and PG are only doing what DK allows, plain and simple. I’m sure there are many others out there doing the same thing, only not as successful. Bottom line is it’s all on DK, and until they start to feel it in their bottom line nothing is going to change.

  • superstars92

    • 448

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    • Ranked #91

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @sochoice said...

    Funny how there aren’t any forum posts or threads when high volume players place in the bottom quartile of a tournament. Maybe people here should either 1) work harder on creating and refining better lineups and/or 2) max enter the the Quarter Arcade. That would put you on the same footing as every other max entry player.

    I agree with you here, but why are you such a party pooper =(.

  • lpk8787

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    I’ve been loyal to DK over the years, but this may be the end of the line for me, my volume will decrease drastically. If someone like me is taking a step back, its a bad sign for the industry.

    I don’t play because I expect to win consistently, I play with money that I have allocated for gambling/dfs. Win or lose, I enjoy setting lineups to add another level of fun to my sports consumption. I like the strategy of it it all.

    Mass entry and circumventing the rules creates an uneven playing field and its no longer fun… It’s really a shame because this could have been a great industry if it was treated with transparency and a set of rules that are actually enforced.

  • RedBaran24

    @lpk8787 said...

    I’ve been loyal to DK over the years, but this may be the end of the line for me, my volume will decrease drastically. If someone like me is taking a step back, its a bad sign for the industry.

    I don’t play because I expect to win consistently, I play with money that I have allocated for gambling/dfs. Win or lose, I enjoy setting lineups to add another level of fun to my sports consumption. I like the strategy of it it all.

    Mass entry and circumventing the rules creates an uneven playing field and its no longer fun… It’s really a shame because this could have been a great industry if it was treated with transparency and a set of rules that are actually enforced.

    based on the size of this week’s NFL gpps, I would say that a lot of people are decreasing their volume, including myself (not that that is much of a hit to DK).

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 430

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @lpk8787 said...

    Mass entry and circumventing the rules creates an uneven playing field and its no longer fun… It’s really a shame because this could have been a great industry if it was treated with transparency and a set of rules that are actually enforced.

    There are too many ppl posting the narrative that CA/PG circumvent the entry rules as fact.

    They claim to play off the same projection model. Therefore sometimes their teams are very similar. Check out their play in ResultsDB to see various differences from day to day, though.

    If they interlay lineups and split profits they are circumventing the rules. If they play off the same projection model they are not violating Community Guidelines. They have made their case both on this message board and to DK when investigated. This was even discussed in the Wall St Journal.

    There is a major optics problem whether they are breaking guidelines or not. There is a legitimate question if they should be able to play off the same model for the good of the ecosysem, but it is currently allowed. You are pushing a harmful narrative as fact if you say they are definitely circumventing entry limits while DK turns a blind eye. Many of my own employees and contributors have said this, so I understand where you’re coming from, but I strongly disagree this is fact. They could be lying to everyone, but it’s more likely to me they are telling the truth – they’ve built an awesome projection system and they both profit from it individually within the current bounds of the DK Community Guidelines.

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    These threads always run in circles because neither side is wrong…

    It’s not wrong for someone to want to enter every contest they can to maximize profit. It’s not wrong to use every advantage (within the rules) to make as much as they can, while they can.

    It’s also true that the optics of these situations can be awful. If pissed people off, and can abuse people to stop playing and can effect DFS long term.
    It’s giving up dollars tomorrow to steal pennies today.

    Each of those views is correct. I’d imagine it makes it difficult for the sites to try to balance that, so I’m left to assume whatever path they choose is what they think is best for them financially (as that’s obviously their motivation)
    The question is have is are they making the correct decisions for long term growth?

  • Roma315

    Was looking for an appropriate GIF and this came up – so I’ll just leave this here.

  • jjwd

    @Cal said...

    There is a major optics problem whether they are breaking guidelines or not. There is a legitimate question if they should be able to play off the same model for the good of the ecosysem, but it is currently allowed. You are pushing a harmful narrative as fact if you say they are definitely circumventing entry limits while DK turns a blind eye.

    yup, well said.

  • joephoto

    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    The question is have is are they making the correct decisions for long term growth?

    No, they are not.
    As evidenced here, people are pissed when these guys win the 25 cent arcade.
    Lower stakes players would love to win one of these. Higher stakes players don’t/ shouldn’t need to.

  • jetsfan303

    Not here to hate but I think when you have a smaller satellite and qualifier and the both of them are in it max entering it’s way more egregious than one of them winning a bigger contest like the quarter arcade. That’s basically every smaller dk qualifier in which they have a 2 on 1.

  • Unico10

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    @CountKarma said...

    For one, sharks are their main business. At the end of the day, we likely couldn’t have such large prize pools (Milly Maker for example) if it weren’t for allowing a certain level of volume be attained by pros who flood the market.

    That was DK’s CHOICE

    When they blew zillion in ads money during pvs NFL seasons to attract new players and, at the same time, created contests made for the high rollers…. that’s where they put themselves in their hands.

    One has to look no further that DUs and 50/50s…. why create an infinity of 20-30 players DUs? To get 2-3 fish in each of them and let the sharks enter all of them.

  • Unico10

    • 582

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    • Ranked #86

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    @Cal said...

    There are too many ppl posting the narrative that CA/PG circumvent the entry rules as fact.

    They claim to play off the same projection model. Therefore sometimes their teams are very similar. Check out their play in ResultsDB to see various differences from day to day, though.

    Come on man…

    Funny how their projection model also guide them to enter the exact double of the entry limit in every freaking contest. Just look at the satties… if it’s 1 there are 2… if limit is 5 there are 10…. and made to optimize risk

  • lpk8787

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @Cal said...

    There are too many ppl posting the narrative that CA/PG circumvent the entry rules as fact.

    I should have been more clear that this is just my opinion, not stating fact. My focus really wasn’t on CA/PG but more on DK and the fact that they have a history of being reactionary and only deal with issues once there is enough outcry. Eventually the bad optics will catch up and casual players will walk away.

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