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  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    How soon is a sweat really a sweat? 7th in the victory lane 100 laps in.

  • draftkingsmatt

    DraftKings Rep

    @Mekong83 said...

    If truex had blown a engine on the second to last lap and finished 40th, he still would have scored more then the guy who won the race, which should be the most important aspect

    I think this is typical of fantasy sports. Eg if Truex crashed and finished 40th, he still accrued other scoring stats for his results throughout the race. In NFL if someone gets injured in the 4th quarter, they still get the points they accrued throughout the game for touchdowns, yards, etc. he wouldn’t have done well in the finishing position statistic but has other results that earned him points.

  • draftkingsmatt

    DraftKings Rep

    @SugabearCassadine said...

    The drivers are still supposed to get bonus or race finish points. It’s supposed to go 46 points to the winner and then on down according to DK’s site. I don’t think the scores are final. At least I hope not, I still have a chance at a cash!

    The finishing position stat is updated on the live scoring screen throughout the race based on someone’s current position in the race. As they gain or lose positions it updates real time. This is just to avoid a massive change in standings at the end of the race (if we didn’t include it the whole time it would be very impossible to know where you stand in the contest). We do this in PGA also.

  • draftkingsmatt

    DraftKings Rep

    @SugabearCassadine said...

    So did I! Now, I can understand the complaints about the place differential. Joey Logano’s starting position was 2, but he finished 13th, so anything lower than 2nd place would cost anyone that had him. There should at least be bonus points for top 5 and top 10 placements.

    There are points awarded for finishing position already. They update live throughout the race, not an addition at the end, though.

  • draftkingsmatt

    DraftKings Rep

    @maxeernst said...

    Scoring might be a problem, but bigger problem IMO is the overlap of lineups. Need to make rosters bigger.

    The current system turns a GPP with a top prize of “10k” into a GPP where the most you can win is like 800 bucks.

    Make the roster bigger, lower the prices or raise the cap. Less unique lineups is better for everyone. Nobody enjoys tying with 25 other people.

    Agreed we are certainly going to be discussing approaches to reduce the overlap of players / lineups. We have room to be better here.

  • draftkingsmatt

    DraftKings Rep

    @containment said...

    I enjoyed it……okay would have been nice if a few less in 1st but, $1,261.53 on a $3 so I’m happy

    Nicely done! Good start to NASCAR for you.

  • nvetta

    I loved how Draftkings was super quick with the scoring updates. That was fun to watch my lineups rise and drop all the time.

    I do agree with adding another spot or two to try to cut down on the amount of duplicate lineups.

    I read as much as I could find this week about previous track results, driver ratings, quality pass stats, qualifying results and whatever else I came across that seemed to apply. I did well with almost 339 points and finished in the top of every contest I entered, but I have a feeling it had more to do with a lucky roster than with what I thought I understood. I don’t know. haha. I guess I’ll give it another shot and see if I can repeat my success.

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    5 drivers is good, I wouldn’t change that. Luck factor rises considerably with each added driver. 5 is perfect. More ties is BY FAR the lesser of 2 evils. If u can figure out a way to reduce ties within 5 drivers, that would be great. How about offering rolling 2-race slates in addition to the single race?

    And comparing team sports to individual sports is ridiculous. It’s apples to oranges.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Slah said...

    5 drivers is good, I wouldn’t change that. Luck factor rises considerably with each added driver. 5 is perfect. More ties is BY FAR the lesser of 2 evils. If u can figure out a way to reduce ties within 5 drivers, that would be great. How about offering rolling 2-race slates in addition to the single race?

    And comparing team sports to individual sports is ridiculous. It’s apples to oranges.

    Rolling 2 race-slates in my guess would cause problems with anyone who isn’t patient enough to wait 2 weeks, no?

    Explain why you think having more drivers would increase the luck factor? I would think it would be the opposite?

    I will admit, I watched the beginning (as my lineups were still in it) and the end of the race (even though my 1 lineup was out, I was curious) just because of DFS.

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    @bhdevault said...

    Rolling 2 race-slates in my guess would cause problems with anyone who isn’t patient enough to wait 2 weeks, no?

    Explain why you think having more drivers would increase the luck factor? I would think it would be the opposite?

    I will admit, I watched the beginning (as my lineups were still in it) and the end of the race (even though my 1 lineup was out, I was curious) just because of DFS.

    I just meant 2 week slates as an additional option. I realize it’s not likely to be considered. It’s a way to maintain the same game while eliminating ties though.

    I guess you can look at it multiple ways, but the more drivers, the less likely you are to have all of them finish the race. I played on fantasy racing lounge last year, and you picked something ridiculous like 8 drivers. There was really no advantage. Picture it on this extreme: If you had to pick 20 drivers, does that increase the skill?

    Additionally, having to track 6 drivers instead of 5 makes the sweat way less fun, IMO. I played dk and ff last night. I think ff has a much better scoring system than dk, but didn’t really even bother sweating those lineups because, well, they were harder to sweat.

  • Mekong83

    @draftkingsmatt said...

    We simulated a lot of previous races with various scoring models to try and decide how to best deal with the issue of starting position. If you start near the front of the pack you have a much better chance of high finishes, laps lead, fast laps, etc than those in the back of the field. using differentials on passing in race and overall position differentials helps determine who has a good performance in the race itself, somewhat lessening the dependency of where you start. If we didn’t do that, most of the back of the field at start would not be relevant fantasy options to use. It helps make the whole field relevant.

    Let say first that I am happy that DK has NASCAR and that I understand it was the first week. My point is that the most important aspect should be where you finish in the race. You penalize drivers who qualify well, you can’t say that Biffle and Elliott had similar races and won finished 2nd and Elliott finished 18th. Plus, being able to win a GPP when won of your drivers is not on the lead lap is hard to swallow. Maybe have negative 5 points per lap down and have a tighter salary cap so that if you want the high-end drivers you have to take a risk.

  • detroittigers44

    I rolled with Kurt Busch, Martin Truex Jr., Austin Dillon, Kasey Kahne, and Paul Menard on DK in the $3 Slingshot… When they restarted with 50 to go, I was sitting in a 6 way tie for a nice $4,200 pay day… Of course fuel mileage screwed that all up and I ended up 199th… As you all know, getting $17 back when you had a team that was so capable of taking first place, its a bit of a bummer. I was 24 points out of first place, 6 guys stayed out and gambled on fuel, all of them beat my 5 drivers. Do the math, I was looking pretty good. Oh well, fun sweat and ready for next week.

  • Mekong83

    @draftkingsmatt said...

    We simulated a lot of previous races with various scoring models to try and decide how to best deal with the issue of starting position. If you start near the front of the pack you have a much better chance of high finishes, laps lead, fast laps, etc than those in the back of the field. using differentials on passing in race and overall position differentials helps determine who has a good performance in the race itself, somewhat lessening the dependency of where you start. If we didn’t do that, most of the back of the field at start would not be relevant fantasy options to use. It helps make the whole field relevant.

    All this tells me is that you should have seen this coming

  • bigstud2727

    @draftkingsmatt said...

    I think this is typical of fantasy sports. Eg if Truex crashed and finished 40th, he still accrued other scoring stats for his results throughout the race. In NFL if someone gets injured in the 4th quarter, they still get the points they accrued throughout the game for touchdowns, yards, etc. he wouldn’t have done well in the finishing position statistic but has other results that earned him points.

    How is this typical in fantasy sports lol? NFL and nascar are not even comparable lol. If a nfl player gets injured in the 4th quarter yes they still accrue points, but still those points accrued have an impact on who wins the game or not, in nascar the point is to win the race and finishing positions should be the main focus on how racers get points. A better comparison if you actually wanted to use another sport would be pga. You dont see golfers getting cut and still be the best golfers that week it makes zero sense but nice try i guess trying to stick up for your attempt at nascar scoring.

  • sethayates

    @Mekong83 said...

    Maybe have negative 5 points per lap down and have a tighter salary cap so that if you want the high-end drivers you have to take a risk.

    You can’t do this because it would absolutely sink anyone with a driver who crashed. Jimmy Johnson finished 375 of 400 laps. You really gonna give him a -125 in addition to the -16 he already got?

    Even worse, Justin Allgaier crashed on lap 135. Your system would give him a -1325 in addition to his -5.75 already.

  • dmrose

    @Mekong83 said...

    Maybe have negative 5 points per lap down

    I think some sort of penalty for going down a lap makes a lot of sense since passes while you’re in the pits don’t count against you the scoring basically isn’t accounting for being lapped at all. My recommendation would be negative .25 pts since that is the same as what you get for a lap lead. The other way this could be handled is awarding points for each lap completed.

  • Mekong83

    @sethayates said...

    You can’t do this because it would absolutely sink anyone with a driver who crashed. Jimmy Johnson finished 375 of 400 laps. You really gonna give him a -125 in addition to the -16 he already got?

    Even worse, Justin Allgaier crashed on lap 135. Your system would give him a -1325 in addition to his -5.75 already.

    I’m just spitballing ideas, had just woke up when I said 5 but I do like the idea of a driver getting -1330, lol

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    @draftkingsmatt said...

    We simulated a lot of previous races with various scoring models to try and decide how to best deal with the issue of starting position. If you start near the front of the pack you have a much better chance of high finishes, laps lead, fast laps, etc than those in the back of the field. using differentials on passing in race and overall position differentials helps determine who has a good performance in the race itself, somewhat lessening the dependency of where you start. If we didn’t do that, most of the back of the field at start would not be relevant fantasy options to use. It helps make the whole field relevant.

    You simulated races with various scoring models, and just so happened to land on one that’s exactly the same as Nascar.com’s Fantasy Live??? Wow! What are the odds??

    And using passing differentials and overall position differentials definitely does NOT help determine who has a good performance in the race itself to any extent whatsoever. Botching qualifying/being forced to serve a pass through penalty under yellow/spinning out and causing a yellow (like jimmie did) and thereby gaining access to points that the drivers who are driving a great, clean race and qualified at the front of the field do not have access to is not indicative of a good performance in the race itself. It’s more than likely just the opposite.

  • ktw1021

    First of all, props to DK for offering and I am sure they will tweak if needed, but in my quick review of $3 big GPP, the winner won the GPP, mainly due to Kurt Busch (10th) and Truex (5th) in their lineup with the bulk of the points accumulated by fastest laps and laps led- just way too much emphasis on this rather finishing position in my opinion.
    I had the 1st, 2nd, 5th, 7th and 14th place cars in my best lineup in the $3GPP and won $7. I am not saying I should have won, just illustrating the lack of emphasis on finish.

  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    You don’t get points for the win in football or basketball, yet that’s the goal there too. You get points for having the most dominant performance. Say what you will, but Busch, Truex, and Kahne were the best cars and the most dominant drivers out there. If an RB scores three touchdowns and gets 200 yards and his team loses, he still gets his points. Hell, one of the biggest complaints about MLB is a pitcher getting points for a win as it is dependent on his offense, the opposing pitcher, and his bullpen’s ability to hold a lead.

    I am in favor of increasing roster size, but not sure I tweak the scoring any just yet. I give DK a solid 9 out of 10 and the live scoring went much smoother than I expected.

  • Mekong83

    wonder what Herm Edwards has to say

  • ktw1021

    @Yukerboy said...

    You don’t get points for the win in football or basketball, yet that’s the goal there too. You get points for having the most dominant performance.

    excellent point, so in the current format, all attention to building lineups from my perspective is out of 42 cars, who will lead the most laps, have one of the fastest cars and probably not start in the first couple of rows.

  • Domigator

    @Yukerboy said...

    You don’t get points for the win in football or basketball, yet that’s the goal there too. You get points for having the most dominant performance.

    ^^^^^^^^^^ THIS

  • Buffalo66

    Just want to point out that the 600 is the longest race of the year with the most laps (400). This means that certain scoring elements were emphasized for this race. Going forward scoring should be less skewed – unless one or two drivers dominates laps led.

  • Buffalo66

    I stand corrected Bristol has 500 laps.

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    The apples to oranges crowd is gaining steam. It’s a runaway locomotive of idiocy and I can’t stop it.

    Just gonna lie down on the tracks and get run over like a teenager at a tony Stewart sprintcar race.

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