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  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    How soon is a sweat really a sweat? 7th in the victory lane 100 laps in.

  • heartman

    There’s too much luck involved in “pass differential”. Get rid of it. You absolutely should not reward drivers who spin out, have a pit road violation or a really bad pit stop and get sent to the rear of the field.

    Reduce “laps led” points from .25/pt to .10/pt. Winning a race is more important than leading the most laps.

    I’m all for going to 6 drivers to reduce lineup duplication and ties.

    Get rid of “fastest laps”. It’s an unnecessary stat that just waters down the finishing position points.

    Finishing position is the most important statistic in Nascar but it is not the most important stat in your scoring system. Give more points for finishing position.

  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Buffalo66 said...

    Just want to point out that the 600 is the longest race of the year with the most laps (400). This means that certain scoring elements were emphasized for this race. Going forward scoring should be less skewed – unless one or two drivers dominates laps led.

    Last night’s race was also a goofy finish. Looking back at Charlotte races last year, Harvick finished 1st and would have scored the most. Gordon finished 2nd and would have scored the second most. McMurray finished 3rd and would have scored the fourth most. Larson finished 6th and would have scored the third most. The race before that in Charlotte, Harvick and Johnson finished 1-2 and scored 2nd and 1st most points and all top 5 scored in the top 6.

    Last night was an aberration as Edwards snuck in for the win. Last night does not look like it would be the norm.

  • heartman

    @Yukerboy said...

    You don’t get points for the win in football or basketball, yet that’s the goal there too. You get points for having the most dominant performance. Say what you will, but Busch, Truex, and Kahne were the best cars and the most dominant drivers out there. If an RB scores three touchdowns and gets 200 yards and his team loses, he still gets his points. Hell, one of the biggest complaints about MLB is a pitcher getting points for a win as it is dependent on his offense, the opposing pitcher, and his bullpen’s ability to hold a lead.

    I am in favor of increasing roster size, but not sure I tweak the scoring any just yet. I give DK a solid 9 out of 10 and the live scoring went much smoother than I expected.

    The big difference here is that wins and losses are not part of a football or basketball players statistics.

    Finishing position and race wins are the most important statistics for any Nascar driver.

    It’s more comparable to a baseball pitchers win/loss stats.

    Nascar itself determines it’s champions from mostly race wins and finishing position.

  • Buffalo66

    @heartman said...

    Finishing position and race wins are the most important statistics for any Nascar driver.

    It’s more comparable to a baseball pitchers win/loss stats.

    Nascar itself determines it’s champions from mostly race wins and finishing position.

    Kicking plays a huge part in the outcome of NFL games but DFS deems it too high variance to matter in the scoring – eliminating it on many sites or not including it at all (punting).

    I’m not defending the scoring here but I’m just trying to point out to win the contest you need to study the scoring table as much as the drivers/teams.

  • heartman

    A lot of the “laps led” points were determined by who got the best jump on the restarts. When Kurt Busch got the better restart he led a lot of laps, when Hamlin got the better restart he led a lot of laps.

    A car can run up front and lead a bunch of laps in the clean air but get shuffled back in the pack through pit strategy and not look nearly as dominant.

    Under Draftkings scoring, laps led is going to be the most important statistic.

  • YoungFischer

    Disclaimer: I knew nothing about NASCAR until yesterday.

    After some thought I think their scoring system is a bit whacky but pretty good.

    Salary goals. Maximize user experience by 1) Reducing overlap. 2) Creating a fun, competitive environment.

    The heavily weighted +/- although resulting in some whacky final outcomes accomplishes both goals. It creates value in drivers starting near the rear who would otherwise never be drafted, reducing overlap.

    The alternative is to reduce differentials and tighten up the salary cap so that players were forced to draft drivers near the back. Would people prefer that? You’re basically forced to draft a dud.

    Adding another car (or two) would really help, particularly with such strong differential scoring there’s no reason not to have expanded rosters.

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    Adding cars won’t help. It will reduce ties a little while making the sweats less fun. You can’t enjoy tracking 6 or 7 cars racing at the same time. I’m telling u. Increased potential for ties is by far the lesser of the 2 evils.

  • Mekong83

    @YoungFischer said...

    y

    It wouldn’t be drafting a dud, it would give the advantage to people who do the research

  • nvetta

    @Slah said...

    Adding cars won’t help. It will reduce ties a little while making the sweats less fun. You can’t enjoy tracking 6 or 7 cars racing at the same time. I’m telling u. Increased potential for ties is by far the lesser of the 2 evils.

    I don’t see how tracking 1 more car would make that much of a difference as far as enjoyment. To be honest I never watched nascar and even though I was playing last night I didn’t watch it then either. I went to the drive-in and checked my scores on the app every now and then. That was fun enough for me.

  • bigstud2727

    @Yukerboy said...

    You don’t get points for the win in football or basketball, yet that’s the goal there too. You get points for having the most dominant performance. Say what you will, but Busch, Truex, and Kahne were the best cars and the most dominant drivers out there. If an RB scores three touchdowns and gets 200 yards and his team loses, he still gets his points. Hell, one of the biggest complaints about MLB is a pitcher getting points for a win as it is dependent on his offense, the opposing pitcher, and his bullpen’s ability to hold a lead.

    I am in favor of increasing roster size, but not sure I tweak the scoring any just yet. I give DK a solid 9 out of 10 and the live scoring went much smoother than I expected.

    Yes the goal in basketball and football is to win also, but again nascar compared to basketball and football are not comparable its common sense. If a driver crashes he is done, if a basketball or football player gets injured the rest of the team keeps on playing, i dont get how people can compare nascar with other sports that has more then one player or racer in this case, its not rocket science to comprehend. So with that said yes the scoring is brutal, all you need for proof is look at carl edwards points, he won the race and only got 57 points. Yeah it may have been from good pitt strategy but so what thats a part of the sport and winning is the main stat that should matter. Just look at pga for a better comparison, one golfer equates to one racer and if golfer gets cut theres no chance he can score more then the winner its pretty silly when you realize the scoring

  • YoungFischer

    Another issue is that there are only two components that have accumulating stats.

    Fastest Laps = +0.5 PTs
    Laps Led = +0.25 PTs

    The rest change in real time so fast that it’s really impossible to tell how you’re doing. Maybe some people like that I don’t as I have no idea what’s going on.

    Perhaps replace differential with something like accumulated average position differential per 100 laps and reset the starting position after each 100 would change much more slowly and could add some stability to scoring.

  • ActionJunkie

    @Slah said...

    Adding cars won’t help. It will reduce ties a little while making the sweats less fun. You can’t enjoy tracking 6 or 7 cars racing at the same time. I’m telling u. Increased potential for ties is by far the lesser of the 2 evils.

    Agree with you here :).

    Like I posted on a page or two back… if they just tweak scoring a little to where cheapies/punts become more viable, we will see more diversity and have better sweats.

  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    I have an idear. How about we give a gazillion points to the winner and then keep the scoring the same. That way, you didn’t roster the winner, you don’t win a GPP. If winning is what truly matters, then this is fair, right?

    Screw Kasey’s dominant run through the pack…twice. Forget Busch and his best car for 350 laps. Truex, 2nd place is first loser, clown.

    There is more variance to picking the winner than picking the most dominant drivers. To reward a win more heavily favors luck and hurts skill, which a lot of lottery players would hope for.

    I prefer the game of skill it currently is and oppose increasing any luck factor.

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    @Yukerboy said...

    Screw Kasey’s dominant run through the pack…twice.

    Lol. “Dominant run through the pack”. There were 15 other drivers who would have made similar “dominant runs”. The difference was that none of them botched qualifying, and therefore had the chance to achieve such a prestigious accomplishment.

    For those who have their panties in a bunch over increased likelihood of ties, top drivers who botch qualifying and therefore become must-plays are going to be the main causation of it. The sensible solution would be to use a scoring system that doesn’t reward mistakes and sucking. Not “add more drivers”.

  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    If Edwards started 33rd, he finishes 20th. Maybe.

    The only cars that could touch Kahne was Busch and Truex.

  • chrisjen

    Lets let it play out a few weeks and see where it goes, Edwards shouldn’t of payed top points because he wasn’t the best car and lucks into a fuel mileage win if we tweak the points so that first place scores the most points every week then we should buy stock in dart boards because there will be no point in reasearch

  • tobinator44

    RG NASCAR Contributor

    @Chrisjen said it best, a lucky win doesn’t constitute the best play. Busch and Truex had the best cars and therefore scored the most fantasy points. In my mind this is like Lebron having 80 FPs, but the Cavs losing (he was still the best on the court.) NASCAR.com has done scoring like this the last couple of years. Lets see how it plays out the next couple of races before we push for significant changes.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @heartman said...

    Under Draftkings scoring, laps led is going to be the most important statistic.

    This is going to change on every track. Charlotte had 400 laps, which led to a lot more points that can be accumulated on laps lead/fastest laps.

    Upcoming Schedule- Total Laps

    Dover- 400 laps
    Pocono- 160 laps
    Michigan- 200 laps
    Sonoma- 110 laps
    Daytona- 160 laps
    Kentucky- 267 laps
    New Hampshire- 300 laps

    As you can see, Dover may have similar results to Charlotte with 400 laps. But there will be many other races where laps leds will not be as important.

  • Mekong83

    I made a 11x return and I believe the scoring system is flawed just look at Greg Biffle getting 46 & Elliott getting 43.5. I completely agree that Truex had the best car and that Edwards won because of strategy but I found it extremely odd that a bunch of people who use strategy in making their LUs, in all sports, are against a driver doing the same thing.

  • Mekong83

    I had Edwards,truex,Hamlin,Kahne, & Menard

  • heartman

    Edwards 108.25
    Biffle 92
    Earnhardt 97
    Kenseth 83.5
    Truex 113.75
    Newman 85
    Keselowski 67.75
    Hamlin 74.25
    Harvick 65.5
    Kurt Busch 90.5
    Kyle Busch 60
    Kahne 72
    Logano 41.25
    Menard 54
    Gordon 45
    Dillon 35
    Almirola 42
    Elliott 46
    McMurray 37
    Bowyer 36
    Stewart 21
    Patrick 26
    Mears 37
    Hornish 26
    Larson 6
    Bowman 16
    Bayne 18
    Whitt 25
    Allmendinger 16
    McDowell ??
    Moffit 22
    Annett 16
    Gilliland17.25
    Dibenedetto 18
    Wise ??
    Kennedy 15
    Stenhouse -1
    Yeley 9
    Cassill ??
    Johnson -23
    Ragan -31
    Blaney -24
    Allgaier -7

    This is the scoring for the Charlotte race at Fantasy Feud. It’s a lot more accurate in my opinion and will continue to be more accurate.

  • bigstud2727

    Yeah for sure that scoring system is wayyyyyyyyy better then what DK chose to experiment with. Edwards actually got rewarded for winning which he should have on DK. DK will have a tough time trying to make nascar a legitimate dfs sport if they keep this wack job scoring they decided to create.

  • heartman

    Look at Mekongs example.

    If I remember correctly Biffle ran in the 8th to 15th range most of the race and finished 2nd.

    Chase Elliott ran in the 20th to 30th range and finished a lap down in 18th.

    Biffle 46 points, Elliott 43.5 is crazy!

  • mr19683

    Anyone have a link to the $3 100k gtd draftkings CC 600 results?

  • tobinator44

    RG NASCAR Contributor

    DK rolled out a game basically using the NASCAR.com rules (See Below). For those of us that play Fantasy NASCAR LIVE, it isn’t really that different. The Bonus points help break ties, but its easy to see with the DK/NASCAR partnership what was going on. I do think @Stewburtx8 is right by saying that it will change, but the best cars will always score the most points. You could do something like offer an extra 25 FPs for a win, that would help make winning as important as most of you want.

    I. SCORING CATEGORIES:
    Drivers are scored across four (4) statistical categories, originating from NASCAR’s official Race scoring. If a Driver on a participant’s Team Roster does not compete in a Race, that Driver will be awarded zero (0) points for that Race.

    Laps Led:
    Total number of laps led divided by 2. Example: If Carl Edwards lead 70 laps, he would earn 35 points. NASCAR Timing & Scoring will be the official source of this statistical category.

    Fastest Laps:
    Total number of fastest laps divided by 2. Example: If Denny Hamlin recorded 50 fastest laps, he would earn 25 points. NASCAR Timing & Scoring will be the official source of this statistical category.

    Place Differential:
    Starting position (based on official qualifying order) minus finish position, +/- 1 point for each driver’s place differential. Example: If Jimmie Johnson started 7th but finished 1st, his place differential would be +6, and he would earn 6 points. If Jeff Gordon started 6th and finished 10th, his place differential would be -4, earning him -4 points.

    Finishing Position:
    1st place gets 46 points, 2nd place gets 42, 3rd place gets 41, 4th place gets 40 points and so on in decrements of one point per position, with 43rd place earning 1 point. The Game will be scored based on the final Race results tabulated by NASCAR Timing and Scoring

    Bonus Points – Winning Driver:
    30-point bonus for picking the winning race driver for that week. Selection DOES NOT carry over from week to week; a new pick must be made each Race.

    Bonus Points – Car Manufacturer:
    10-point bonus for picking the winning car manufacturer for that week. Selection DOES NOT carry over from week to week; a new pick must be made each Race.

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