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  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    How soon is a sweat really a sweat? 7th in the victory lane 100 laps in.

  • heartman

    I wouldn’t add 25 points to the winner. The 3 points currently added is enough.

    Add more points for finishing position and get rid of unnecessary stats like pass differential.

  • tobinator44

    RG NASCAR Contributor

    I like that @heartman, we have all been against the pass differential from the beginning. I think it will eventually phase out.

  • greenflag

    NASCAR.com’s fantasy salaries range from 29% of the cap (Harvick) to 5% Brendan Gaughan. Draft Kings’ Salaries range from 29% of the cap (Harvick) to 14% of the cap (moffitt). If Draft Kings drops the price floor a little more and draws out the decline in price, DFS players will have more options and it might result in diverse lineups. Thus, less ties.

    Just a Theory. It may not prevent GPP ties, but it should create less of a pile up at the top.

    I would give this a try before adding a 6th driver or a manufacturer pick.

  • YoungFischer

    DK will need to add another driver or work on their salaries/scoring to put more drivers in play (likely they will need to do both if they want to avoid ties in large field GPPs). I haven’t broken down the ownership percentages exactly but if someone would do it and post it that would be really helpful. It wasn’t huge overlap but I would guess less than half of the field was in play. Doing some basically combinatorics…

    15 choose 5 = 3,003 possible combos
    20 choose 5 = 15,504 possible combos
    25 choose 5 = 53,130 possible combos

    15 choose 6 = 5,005 possible combos
    20 choose 6 = 38,760 possible combos
    25 choose 6 = 177,100 possible combos

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @YoungFischer said...

    I haven’t broken down the ownership percentages exactly but if someone would do it and post it that would be really helpful. It wasn’t huge overlap but I would guess less than half of the field was in play

    By the numbers:

    -A total of 51 drivers were picked at least once (only 43 drivers in the race).
    -44 drivers made it on at least 10 rosters.
    -29 drivers were on 10% or less rosters (21 on less than 5% of rosters)
    -11 drivers were between 10-20% owned

    The top owned drivers:

    Kasey Kahne- 55.96%
    Paul Menard- 29.68%
    Matt Kenseth- 29.4%
    Jimmie Johnson- 28%
    Martin Truex Jr- 26.62%
    Jamie McMurray- 26.48%
    Kyle Busch- 23.57%
    Kevin Harvick- 23.38%

  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    @tobinator44 said...

    I like that @heartman, we have all been against the pass differential from the beginning. I think it will eventually phase out.

    Not all…

  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    @greenflag said...

    NASCAR.com’s fantasy salaries range from 29% of the cap (Harvick) to 5% Brendan Gaughan. Draft Kings’ Salaries range from 29% of the cap (Harvick) to 14% of the cap (moffitt). If Draft Kings drops the price floor a little more and draws out the decline in price, DFS players will have more options and it might result in diverse lineups. Thus, less ties.

    Just a Theory. It may not prevent GPP ties, but it should create less of a pile up at the top.

    I would give this a try before adding a 6th driver or a manufacturer pick.

    Agreed. The pricing is very top heavy. No low tiered guy was worth picking. A Yeley run to the top 25 should be much more impressive than a Kahne run from the 33rd spot to the top 10. We know Hendricks machines can do that.

  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    @heartman said...

    I wouldn’t add 25 points to the winner. The 3 points currently added is enough.

    Add more points for finishing position and get rid of unnecessary stats like pass differential.

    The rewarding of Edwards for finishing 1st would have created more of a luck element. If the object is to make it more of a game of skill, then passing differential is more indicative of skill than finishing 1st.

    This race was also an outlier. The top finisher was never less than a top 2 point getter in Charlotte by DK’s scoring in the last 4 races there.

    It was this time because Edwards got a fluke win.

  • greenflag

    I’d like to imagine this forum, if big points would have gone to Edwards or if the scoring system was based solely on finishing position.

  • tobinator44

    RG NASCAR Contributor

    I agree that pass differential is adding another element of skill, but I am still in favor of doing away with it. I also agree with @Yukerboy in saying rewarding Edwards would have been rewarding luck (as his fuel mileage and “pit strategy” won the race.) He did get the 46 which allowed him the 3 extra like you say. I think that laps led and fastest laps still provide that skill element as the best cars/drivers scored the most points (Truex/Busch). Pass differential is an almost impossible stat to track during the race and honestly doesn’t provide a lot of points on the top (Edwards: .25, Kahne: 1, Truex: 3.25). I would rather just keep the same scoring system minus the pass differential and move on from there. Are any of you guys in favor of picking winning manufacturer or team to help prevent ties, wouldn’t really fit into the flow of DK’s os, but could help break some of the ties?

  • tobinator44

    RG NASCAR Contributor

    Overlooked your post initially greenflag, I can see how setting the pricing would be an effective way to create more team opportunities and potentially break ties. Once again yukerboy is right by saying that a JJ top 20 would be a lot more impressive than Jr. move from 15th to 8th. We know the equipment is a lot better at Hendrick’s than it is at BK Racing.

  • damonscoleri

    All things considered I think the scoring system is fine as it is. NASCAR is not a sport that is conducive to fantasy sports so any scoring system was going to have issues. The end result of the race was a lot of drivers were used at various positions in the race and the drivers that dominated for the duration of the race were rewarded. Saturday’s race was an aberration due to the effect that pit strategy had. Any scoring system that resulted in Carl Edwards with the most points would amount to a simple pick’em of the order of finish which I don’t think would be very interesting.

    For those suggesting making the salary differences more extreme to eliminate ties at the top by making the bottom of the field more usable, do we really want gpps decided by who picked the best scrub min value driver? That would introduce a huge luck factor in my opinion.

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    @Yukerboy said...

    If the object is to make it more of a game of skill, then passing differential is more indicative of skill than finishing 1st.

  • heartman

    @Yukerboy said...

    The rewarding of Edwards for finishing 1st would have created more of a luck element. If the object is to make it more of a game of skill, then passing differential is more indicative of skill than finishing 1st.

    This race was also an outlier. The top finisher was never less than a top 2 point getter in Charlotte by DK’s scoring in the last 4 races there.

    It was this time because Edwards got a fluke win.

    It wasn’t a fluke win. It was an excellent call by Edwards crew chief. Every car on the track had the opportunity to pit with 62 laps to go. There are different ways to win a race and fuel mileage is one of them. He got very lucky that a caution flag didn’t fly but that’s racing.

  • heartman

    @greenflag said...

    I’d like to imagine this forum, if big points would have gone to Edwards or if the scoring system was based solely on finishing position.

    I posted the Fantasy Feud scoring in this thread. It’s a much better scoring system and will continue to be a better scoring system in my opinion.

  • tobinator44

    RG NASCAR Contributor

    @heartman I didn’t have enough exposure to Feud last week, going to give it more of a go this week.

    Scoring ICYMI

    Finish Differential = (Starting Position) – (Final Position). So if a driver begins in 11th position and ends in 5th position, he scores +6 points. If he starts in 11th position but ends in 20th, he would lose 9 points.

    ALL DRIVERS
    DESCRIPTION SYMBOL VALUE
    Finish Differential DIFF 1
    Laps Led LED 0.25
    Final Position = 1 POS 100
    Final Position = 2 POS 90
    Final Position = 3 POS 85
    Final Position = 4 POS 80
    Final Position = 5 POS 76
    Final Position = 6 POS 72
    Final Position = 7 POS 68
    Final Position = 8 POS 64
    Final Position = 9 POS 60
    Final Position = 10 POS 57
    Final Position = 11 POS 54
    Final Position = 12 POS 51
    Final Position = 13 POS 48
    Final Position = 14 POS 45
    Final Position = 15 POS 42
    Final Position = 16 POS 40
    Final Position = 17 POS 38
    Final Position = 18 POS 36
    Final Position = 19 POS 34
    Final Position = 20 POS 32
    Final Position = 21 POS 30
    Final Position = 22 POS 28
    Final Position = 23 POS 26
    Final Position = 24 POS 24
    Final Position = 25 POS 22
    Final Position = 26 POS 20
    Final Position = 27 POS 18
    Final Position = 28 POS 16
    Final Position = 29 POS 15
    Final Position = 30 POS 14
    Final Position = 31 POS 13
    Final Position = 32 POS 12
    Final Position = 33 POS 11
    Final Position = 34 POS 10
    Final Position = 35 POS 9
    Final Position = 36 POS 8
    Final Position = 37 POS 7
    Final Position = 38 POS 6
    Final Position = 39 POS 5
    Final Position = 40 POS 4
    Final Position = 41 POS 3
    Final Position = 42 POS 2
    Final Position = 43 POS 1

  • damonscoleri

    @heartman said...

    It wasn’t a fluke win. It was an excellent call by Edwards crew chief. Every car on the track had the opportunity to pit with 62 laps to go. There are different ways to win a race and fuel mileage is one of them. He got very lucky that a caution flag didn’t fly but that’s racing.

    You are contradicting yourself. You call it an “excellent call” to pit with 62 laps left but that only worked out because in your words “he got very lucky” that there was no caution flag afterwards. It is not an “excellent call” to make a decision and then have improbable events occur afterwards to create an advantage for you. That is the definition of a fluke.

  • heartman

    Call it what you want, it was an excellent call from Edwards crew chief that worked out for the win. It happens several times a season.

  • Buffalo66

    If my car is 5 mph faster than yours, passing you is not skill, it’s better equipment. That being said, the object of the DFS game is to score the most points. So you look for ways to do that.

    As for the scoring, from a historical perspective I think the Fantasy Sports Live model was superior to what we have now. It incorporated 5 Sprint Cup drivers with 4 Xfinity (aka Busch/Nationwide) drivers. So if you underperformed one race you still had a shot to cash. They also weighed the scoring heavily on laps completed & finishing on the lead lap.

    Even with the disappointing format on DK, there is so much dead money there right now. Truly good times for those paying attention to detail.

  • intimadator2007

    Im glad you brought up FSL Buffalo , I thought you played there as well also. I played that site for a few years and there scoring and game was almost perfect. Also Pay The Fan had a fantastic game as well. DK might want to find some of those guys and get some pointers.

  • bigstud2727

    @tobinator44 said...

    I agree that pass differential is adding another element of skill, but I am still in favor of doing away with it. I also agree with @Yukerboy in saying rewarding Edwards would have been rewarding luck (as his fuel mileage and “pit strategy” won the race.) He did get the 46 which allowed him the 3 extra like you say. I think that laps led and fastest laps still provide that skill element as the best cars/drivers scored the most points (Truex/Busch). Pass differential is an almost impossible stat to track during the race and honestly doesn’t provide a lot of points on the top (Edwards: .25, Kahne: 1, Truex: 3.25). I would rather just keep the same scoring system minus the pass differential and move on from there. Are any of you guys in favor of picking winning manufacturer or team to help prevent ties, wouldn’t really fit into the flow of DK’s os, but could help break some of the ties?

    How is Carl Edwards winning by pitt strategy luck lol? They made a fantastic decision to pitt, there are many ways to win or lose a race as there are many other ways to win or lose a game/match in baseball, basketball, football, golf etc. For example a golfer can be dominating 3 and a half rounds and leading by a few then he hits the back nine and goes +7 or something like that. Should that golfer score the most points because he was so dominant for most of the tournament? No, obviously he wouldnt which should be the case also in nascar.

  • FastEddieFear

    Glad to hear the positive feedback for the NASCAR at Fantasy Feud; we got a very good response last weeks contests. We doubled our GPP sizes for this coming week, raising the largest contest from a 10K to a 20K.

  • greenflag

    I like the DK scoring system. It’s fine.

    Since we are arguing about scoring and what should matter the most…for the sake of argument, with this engine package and how difficult it is to pass, the most points should go to place differential.

    “Kahne said if another driver 10 car lengths in front of him – a significant distance – would run the same line, it would immediately affect how his car handled. He called it “a complete pain” and said it was hard to even pass a lapped car in 28th place while he was racing in the top 10.”

    Right now, at intermediate tracks, place differential is a great indicator of a driver’s performance, but it rewards poor qualifiers and punishes good ones. At Talladega place differential is a complete fluke stat. damonscoleri said it: NASCAR doesn’t comfortably fit into fantasy sports. There will be bumps in the road.

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