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  • Sportsmanac

    I just submitted a complaint to FanDuel regarding what I feel is collusion/unfair play. See the message below. Hopefully FanDuel takes this complaint seriously. Curious to hear thoughts from others.

    *****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
    I am a regular FanDuel user (user name is sportsmanac1 and I have been playing pretty much every day for the last 2 – 3 years) and I have come across, what I feel, something that can be deemed as unfair play and possibly collusion. Usually I participate in the single entry NBA tournaments in which the entry fee is $222. The attached screen captures are from the Jan. 16 $222 NBA single entry tournament but please also look at the same tournaments on Dec. 25, Dec. 26, Dec. 27, Dec. 28, Dec. 31, and Jan. 15. If you take a close look at those screen captures as well as those other tournaments, you will find that there are several entries with exactly the same lineup with the same users across multiple tournaments.

    While I will acknowledge that it is possible for 2 – 3 entries to have exactly the same lineup (especially on small slates with 2 – 3 games), I find it hard to believe that 7 – 8 entries will have exactly the same lineup in the same tournament when the slate is large (7 – 10 games). This is mathematically impossible for those duplicate entries to be from different users who don’t know each other and are independently constructing their lineups. Perhaps they are all reading the same articles and using the same sample lineup. Perhaps they are all subscribed to the same site and using the same optimizer. If so, then I recognize that is fair play but I still feel this is worthy of investigation. Are those multiple accounts controlled by one person? If so, that person should be removed from FanDuel per your Terms of Service published on your site (see attachments) and participants in the affected tournaments should be refunded their money. If those accounts represent different people but they are colluding with each other to submit the same lineup which gives them leverage in a single entry tournament (why even call it single entry if that is happening), then they should still be punished. Keep in mind that when multiple users submit the same lineup in a single entry tournament with 125 or 150 total participants, that drastically reduces the chances of people like me, who are playing the game fairly, of reaching the cash line even if our rosters do well. I believe that is unfair play and I would like to see FanDuel take some action (perhaps use an algorithm to deny identical lineups).

    There is evidence that this has been happening for quite some time (again, see the attached screenshots and look at the $222 NBA single entry tournaments from Dec. 25 – 28, Dec. 31, and Jan. 15). You will find that the following users are part of this “collaboration scheme” I have described: moklovin, shocae, buffalohotwings, srn828, rohde5151, cjo19, titletown2121, whosjoedaddy, flatliners2134, and thewildbuffalo. This is not a coincidence when 7 – 8 lineups are exactly the same in a single entry tournament with 7 – 8 games on the slate. For a large field tournament with just 2 – 3 games (like the conference championships this Sunday for NFL DFS), then multiple entries are very common so no complaints there. I just feel the $222 NBA single entry tournaments have lately been tainted with unfair play. I didn’t notice that last season but it’s painfully obvious this season.

    If this trend continues, I can guarantee you that I will not be playing many FanDuel tournaments. Why should I if I am at a disadvantage with 7 – 8 users submitting the same lineup when the tournament is intended for single entry? Yes, the lineup from those entries were constructed well and deserve to win but how on Earth do 7 – 8 people create the same lineup consistently and claim to have done so independently? I hope you take my complaint seriously since lack of action can result in a class action lawsuit … something I am sure FanDuel does not want to deal with given that several states are ready to legalize sports wagering.

  • JSteele

    Collusion doesn’t make sense if they have the same lineup. It only makes sense if they have variations of the same lineup to cover more bases than the maximum entry allow.

    It seems more likely that they either use the same optimizer or there was some massive chalk on those days. It’s totally possible with Fanduel lineup construction where there is single positions.

  • Zieg30

    No one with any level of skill is going to knowingly enter a single entry with the exact same lineup as others.

    What OP is seeing may be the result of some sold lineup online, and something FD should look into, but it is certainly not a consequence of collusion.

  • Njsum1

    This very likely is NOT collusion, yet the above example is why single entry is no better than multi-entry in NBA. It’s the counter argument to people who argue “just play single entry, ” when others complain about multi entry.

    People with effective optimizers will start treating single entry GPP’s like cash games. While clearly not an optimal way to play single entry GPP’s, if the optimizer or projection system is good this will be a +EV strategy, as cash lines in double ups and GPP’s are often similar.

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    Sorry, but no collusion here for the reasons expressed already by other posters.

  • bigez952

    I always love these posts once a month claiming collusion or lineup selling. Is there really that many people that don’t understand optimizers and how many public projection systems are out there. If a group of users have the same cash lineup everyday it is far more likely they are sharing projection systems over collusion or buying lineups. All of the sites state that sharing projection systems / optimizers is perfectly within the rules so you will get no where complaining about lineup trains when the sites promote them.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @bigez952 said...

    Is there really that many people that don’t understand optimizers and how many public projection systems are out there

    Yep.

  • tutigers2001

    If you cashed above them in every contest and they were doing the same thing, would you have an issue?

  • MickyD10970

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    @Zieg30 said...

    No one with any level of skill is going to knowingly enter a single entry with the exact same lineup as others.

    What OP is seeing may be the result of some sold lineup online, and something FD should look into, but it is certainly not a consequence of collusion.

    OR : These players consider their lineups better than the average Joe and want to capture as much of the top prizes as possible with a better/ more optimal lineup in a smaller field and thus better payout if they “hit”. I don’t believe for 1 second that a top player like Moklovin is not modifying an optimizer with his own projections like the majority of the top players do and giving him a similar but definately different lineup that will be spit out to everyone else who subs to the lineup builder he is using. In a $222 tourney there is some money at the top to win. (similar to those who multi enter the same lineup in multi-entry tourney)I always find it interesting the same people come into every thread like this and say nothing to see here. There are far to many examples of collusion and cheating (yes I understand it is how you interpret it). Dan Bach pretty much acknowledged it in his podcast dealing with the Millionaire Maker scandal.

  • eppy12588

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    Maybe you should complain about FDs horrendous pricing the past few months that make the optimal lineup so obvious that many people in the field are ending up with the same lineup.

    Also 10 people having the same exact lineup is actually good for you not bad.

  • MickyD10970

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    @eppy12588 said...

    Maybe you should complain about FDs horrendous pricing the past few months that make the optimal lineup so obvious that many people in the field are ending up with the same lineup.

    Also 10 people having the same exact lineup is actually good for you not bad

    The original poster was referring to a non cash game I believe. Since when is your optimal cash lineup the best option for a top heavy GPP? I don’t think so. Cash lineup yes but tournament strategy generally dictates a slightly different approach. I can grant maybe 1 or 2 go that route but 7 or 8 I don’t think so. Also the horrendous pricing makes it easier to differentiate not tougher.

  • Njsum1

    @eppy12588 said...

    Also 10 people having the same exact lineup is actually good for you not bad.

    If seen this argument. And in a sport with higher variance, I’d agree.

    Yet in NBA, it depends how good the lineup is. If there’s a projection system that is consistently beating my lineup, like 7 out of 10 slates, I’m not so sure how good that is for me. I haven’t done the math, yet I’m guessing I’d have to be able to beat the projections at least 40% of the time for it to be long run good for me in GPP’s.

  • superstars92

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    @Njsum1 said...

    If seen this argument. And in a sport with higher variance, I’d agree.

    Yet in NBA, it depends how good the lineup is. If there’s a projection system that is consistently beating my lineup, like 7 out of 10 slates, I’m not so sure how good that is for me. I haven’t done the math, yet I’m guessing I’d have to be able to beat the projections at least 40% of the time for it to be long run good for me in GPP’s.

    I think in a GPP it’s supposed to be good due to the way the payouts work. In a system with no skewed distribution of payouts, I believe it’s bad. Think of it like this. If you had 2 lineups in a GPP, would you enter 2 different lineups or the same lineup twice? You probably choose the former. So in this case, it isn’t one person with the same lineup, but think of that huge block of people in the same regards vs. another player with a unique lineup. Not sure if this made sense? It’s similar to my showdown argument I put forth in the NBA thread today. I agree with you that this lineup may be on average +EV median wise compared to yours, but due to the skewed distribution of payouts, it realizes a limited upside variance to your EV, so you are better off having that unique lineup in a GPP, even if it’s on average worse.

  • Njsum1

    @superstars92 said...

    I think in a GPP it’s supposed to be good due to the way the payouts work. In a system with no skewed distribution of payouts, I believe it’s bad. Think of it like this. If you had 2 lineups in a GPP, would you enter 2 different lineups or the same lineup twice? You probably choose the former. So in this case, it isn’t one person with the same lineup, but think of that huge block of people in the same regards vs. another player with a unique lineup. Not sure if this made sense? It’s similar to my showdown argument I put forth in the NBA thread today. I agree with you that this lineup may be on average +EV median wise compared to yours, but due to the skewed distribution of payouts, it realizes a limited upside variance to your EV, so you are better off having that unique lineup in a GPP, even if it’s on average worse.

    No, I understand the argument and the reasons why. In the past, I’ve probably made the argument that dupes are good in GPP’s for those who create they’re own lineups.

    However, upon reflection, there would have to be a point at which I personally would not want to see this lineup train regularly in my tournaments. How often would I have to be able to beat this lineup for it to be +EV over time? Obviously, if I could beat this train 50% of the time I’d want It in every GPP I enter, assuming I’m entering a single lineup.

    Yet at what point would I rather not see it? If I had a 40, 30, 20% win rate against this projection system? My argument is that there has to be a point where I wouldn’t want to see a certain train in my GPP’s if the projection generating the lineup is far superior to myself.

  • superstars92

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    @Njsum1 said...

    No, I understand the argument and the reasons why. In the past, I’ve probably made the argument that dupes are good in GPP’s for those who create they’re own lineups.

    However, upon reflection, there would have to be a point at which I personally would not want to see this lineup train regularly in my tournaments. How often would I have to be able to beat this lineup for it to be +EV over time? Obviously, if I could beat this train 50% of the time I’d want It in every GPP I enter, assuming I’m entering a single lineup.

    Yet at what point would I rather not see it? If I had a 40, 30, 20% win rate against this projection system? Also keep in mind, some nights I beat it, I still might not cash, some nights it could be a 1.5x cash. Sometimes 3-50x. My argument is that you don’t always want to see a train in a GPP if the projection generating the lineup is far superior to myself.

    Yea so it heavily depends on the payout of the tournament. I would say for a top heavy one, it may only have to be as low as 10% or so (depending on if your lineup was 10x vs. a non-dupe, say 1 off pivot, that is only 1x). It’s hard to estimate though. But flatter the payout, the closer it is to 50% (and obviously above 50% if it’s a double up).

  • dolphinkick182

    FanDuels is the one place that I don’t find collusion listed as being against their TOS.

  • DickyBigtop

    While this may lead to fist shaking at the heavens and pounding sand, to whatever extent things that go on, will go on. Prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Which entails someone on video making a confession. The only recourse is mass lineup abstinence of the other 99%. And that is not happening. Ever. Period.

    So, just look at it from another angle. Your 1 entry out of 2000 is always going to 1 in 2000 no matter who is behind that lineup or lineups. It is the way of the world. Cash is king.

  • madmanjayWV

    Can’t be crying about teamwork in DFS, now :)

    No such thing as coincidence!

  • eppy12588

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    @MickyD10970 said...

    The original poster was referring to a non cash game I believe. Since when is your optimal cash lineup the best option for a top heavy GPP? I don’t think so. Cash lineup yes but tournament strategy generally dictates a slightly different approach. I can grant maybe 1 or 2 go that route but 7 or 8 I don’t think so. Also the horrendous pricing makes it easier to differentiate not tougher.

    This is a single entry gpp that a lot of people just enter with their cash lineup…..I assume that’s what happened here

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