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  • JMToWin

    • x2

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Hey, all!

    First off – I want to offer a massive congrats to one of RG’s own, Jakz101 (Eric Crain) on his Millionaire Maker win. If you’ve met Crain, you know he is genuinely one of the nicest guys you’ll ever come across. Super pumped for our newest millionaire!

    Secondly, and perhaps more importantly in some of your minds, I want to take a moment to address the “controversy” that has surrounded his win.

    For starters, it should be mentioned that any big win from a well-known DFS player/“tout” is going to generate at least some level of controversy. If someone writes articles and goes on air talking about the plays they like, people are going to comb through that individual’s thoughts from the week to see if they followed their own plays. Heck, the week Smizzle won the Milly, he had written up 7 of the 9 plays he used. People still complained.

    Of course, having cleared out that disclaimer, the situation here is admittedly a bit different.

    For those of you who are not Premium Content subscribers, here’s some quick background:

    Each week in NFL, Crain uses a lineup builder to create 150 lineups, which he throws into the Milly Maker. Because Crain is masterful at creating a sharp, narrowed-down player pool and turning this pool into a profitable weekend (while also – as witnessed this week – giving himself a clear shot at a huge weekend), I came up with the idea of a Premium article in which he would share some of the core pieces in his player pool (Crain writes this article for DraftKings Premium, while TheSeige – who is equally masterful in this area – writes this article for FanDuel).

    In theory, this was an awesome idea. As we saw this weekend – when Crain took first place (and three of the top four spots) in the Milly – having a look at some of his player pool could help readers a ton.

    The problem this week, of course, was that Crain listed 11 players in his article this last week, and only one showed up on his winning lineup. Naturally, this has led to some criticism and frustration from a handful of readers. If you will give me just three or four minutes, however, I would like to share some thoughts of my own, while also inviting you to collaborate with me in order to ensure we are continually putting out the absolute best product in the DFS industry.

    MY THOUGHTS:

    If you are a Premium subscriber, you know we have focused our product primarily on helping readers to make good picks on their own. Our flagship articles (my NFL Edge and MLB Edge, STLCards’ Covering the Bases, CheeseIsGood’s Million Dollar Musings, and JumpaHoo’s Jump Shot) are not written with the intention of “providing picks.” Instead, these articles are intended to, essentially, take a massive amount of research and transfer this research to the reader in an easily-digestible form. The NFL Edge, for example, takes me about 30 hours each week to research and write, and it takes about an hour to read – so in that hour of reading, you can pick up the 25 hours of research I accumulated myself. During MLB and NBA, these articles typically take around 20 to 30 minutes to read, and enable us to transfer 4 or 5 hours of research to the reader in that time. It was because of these articles that 12 different people told me at the DraftKings MLB live final in Toronto this last summer that they would not have won a seat to the live final without their Premium subscription.

    But we also, still, want to offer the more traditional-type articles – articles that are more picks-based. I know most of our readers have more of an interest in the research-driven pieces, but there are readers who prefer picks-driven pieces – and honestly, even those who do not prefer such pieces still typically click on these articles just to make sure there is nothing they are overlooking.

    The article concept I came up with for Crain and Seige was – in my mind – sort of a blend between the two. Obviously, no one can expect these guys to share their exact player pool each week, as this would lead to everyone plugging the same players into the Lineup Builder, and everyone ending up with nearly identical (or completely identical) teams. Instead, I envisioned this article being exactly what Crain’s was this last week: 11 to 15 players, with some obvious plays and some less obvious plays, and some thoughts on why these players would be cycled through his 150 rosters. What I did not have the foresight to envision, of course, was this situation occurring: a Milly Maker being won, with only one guy from the player pool on the team.

    First off, let’s be clear: this is totally on me, and I apologize to anyone who has been upset by this situation. I should have seen the potential for this to occur, and I should have made it more clear to readers what I saw this article being, or I should have come up with a plan to prevent this situation arising.

    At the same time, I also think there are things we can do better with the RotoGrinders Premium product. For example, I would love for all of our writers to update their articles later in the week. But readers of my own article know I have only done so twice myself, through the first eight weeks of the season. Once you shift to “roster construction” mode, the mental shift to going back and adding things to an article can be a weird one to make. But, again: it’s one we should all be attempting to make; this last week, I updated on Saturday primarily to convey that nothing much had changed in my thinking – but because I would love to set a precedent for readers that they can check back on Saturdays for my updated thoughts, I checked in to let readers know my thoughts were still in the same place (basically, a non-updated update, so readers can know each week that they should check back in case anything major has shifted in my thinking).

    Most weeks, in fact, Crain does the same thing. Most weeks, he updates his article with his late-week additions. It was quite unfortunate that this was not one such week – but this does open the door for us to discuss this, and to continue improving our product.

    My genuine goal is for RotoGrinders Premium to be the single most powerful and valuable DFS subscription any player can have. One of the great assets we have in this area is that all of our Premium writers have achieved consistent, reliable success at the highest level of play. We don’t just hire guys for Premium who “can do good research and write about it”; we don’t have a bunch of guys writing for us who do well with five dollars in play each week. Instead, we have a group of guys writing for us who have proven that they can take their research and turn it into successful DFS play at the highest buy-in levels, and against the toughest competition.

    This is awesome.

    What becomes a bit complicated, of course, is that writing DFS content is practically charity for most of these guys. For example: I had over $18,000 in play this last weekend – and I played only one lineup, and it was all on DraftKings. As you know, I am unique among “high-end” DFS players in playing only one lineup (and in often focusing my play on one site) – so if I had $18k in play on one site, with one lineup, you can imagine how much money some of these other guys have in play each weekend across multiple lineups and multiple sites. Moreover, most of these guys also play NBA at a high level (and are focused there on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday – in between their Premium articles coming out, and NFL kicking off on Sunday). No matter how much we pay writers, they are always going to have far more of a financial interest in maximizing their time for roster construction. I fear that if we go too far with requiring writers to constantly update their articles throughout the week, we will actually sacrifice quality quite a bit. Most high-end guys will eventually decide, “The money I’m being paid for constantly updating this article is not worth the tradeoff for the time being taken away from my roster construction.” This might lead to articles that are updated frequently…but that are no longer written by actual, successful DFS players. It’s definitely a conundrum, and I’m not certain there is even an easy, simple solution.

    What I will say is this:

    1) I hope no one thinks Crain was intentionally attempting to mislead anyone. If you know Crain, you know this was not the case. And if you listened to Crain’s late-week GrindersLive shows, you know he talked about nearly all the plays he used on his winning team. This was just an unfortunate blend of situations – a week in which Crain’s thoughts changed a lot as the week went on, and in which he did not get a chance to update his article. Most weeks, the guys he wrote up on Wednesday would have been the same guys you would have seen on his winning Milly Maker lineup – and then, the whole discussion here would be how ridiculously valuable that article is for readers, instead of the discussion being what it is now. Truly, anyone who looks at the big picture – examining Crain’s Player Pool article and how it has lined up with his actual rosters throughout the season – will know and acknowledge that this was just a really unfortunate blend of situations.

    2) I genuinely feel the blame for this falls onto me, as I was the one who came up with this article concept, and I was the one who failed to foresee something like this occurring. To any readers who were upset by this, please accept my apology – and please, again, realize that probably 6 out of 8 weeks so far, a “Crain Milly Maker win” would have matched up with his “Player Pool” article in a big way. It just sucks that this was a week in which thoughts changed late and updates were not made. (Note: I was just informed that this was actually the first week all season Crain did not add a late-week update to the article, as he was sick later in the week. Again, just a really unfortunate blend of situations…)

    3) Regarding “updates being made,” you can count on me for the remainder of the season to update the NFL Edge. We are going to try to make sure Crain and Seige drop some updates in their Player Pool articles when they can as well. (For what it’s worth, CheeseIsGood usually updates his MLB article close to lock; I have no idea how that dude is able to put in so much research, put in winning teams, and update his article close to lock in a truly daily sport, but suffice it to say, he’s a beast.) We are also working really hard to get our rankers to update their Consensus Value Rankings throughout the week, to reflect their updated thoughts. And I am going to talk to other writers about updating their articles in the rare instances when it is necessary for them to do so.

    I want the RG Premium platform to continue being the single most valuable subscription platform in the DFS industry, and of course, the balance there is having elite DFS players writing for us…while also trying to encourage these elite players to take a break from roster construction, and to go back and add things to their articles and/or rankings.

    This is where I could use your help!

    Please chime in below with any thoughts you have – both on how we can improve things in this specific area, and on anything else you have been thinking of lately that you would love to see incorporated into, or changed, or improved, or adjusted, in Premium.

    If you don’t mind, please refrain from using this thread as an area to be accusatory and/or nasty. I’m sure there are other places you can go to do that. Let’s, instead, reserve this thread for constructive discussion (also: feel free to let us know things you like about Premium and do not want to see changed, so we can make sure to keep strengthening those areas).

    Thanks so much for your ear (and sorry for the length!)

    -JM

    (P.S. Monday-through-Wednesday is “NFL Edge research and writing” time for me, so I won’t be able to drop in a ton on this thread during the first half of the week. But I’ll do my best, and I will definitely come through here during the second half of the week – as will other RG guys, I hope/assume.)

  • frUnk

    There are thousands of sites that offer DFS picks or advice, the difference is a majority of them are free. When people are paying a subscription to access your premium articles or information, much more is expected. Considering a lot of the writers are pros here, the expectations are set even higher. People pay the RG subscription because they don’t have 30+ hours a week to put in the amount of research that a pro does. So just be prepared to take the criticism and controversy that will come with the territory of being a “pro” column writer. And if you aren’t doing it for the love of DFS, and making the game better and seem more fair to a novice, or if you make substantially more money from your DFS winnings, then don’t be a “Tout” and keep your information to yourself.

    Any time people are actually paying money they are now a customer and the expectations have gone up. This situation is almost like paying for stock tips, and the tout says company “A” stock is going to sky rocket, and then the stock guru has 0℅ exposure to company “A” in his portfolio.

    The industry already has bad vibes from the FD fiasco with an employee winning a big GPP, and he might have had player exposure info or whatever. States are trying to ban the game and or regulate it further. Any more “controversy” isn’t going to shed positive light on the industry as a whole.

    This is just an objective observation, I’m happy for the guy who won the Milly maker tournament. Just understand it from some other people’s view point, that the “tout” had hardly any of his core picks in the article, and ended up taking down the MM tournament. Whether or not column writers should update their article later in the week doesn’t matter, if they wish to update go for it.

    And this goes for every paid writer here at RG, if you don’t have a true passion for helping others, and giving some of your thoughts and plays for the week, and you make so much more money from your winnings, please stop being a writer.

    I sincerely don’t think there was any intentions of him holding back his core picks this week, but just be prepared to take that heat from some people. Congratz on the huge win!!

  • shaunovery

    Think people are a little miffed than if you pay for the premium service and the guy wins at least have a couple of his players on the milly winning team , because it can be misconstrued that the players discussed aren’t in the winning team

    But in all fairness Eric was swayed by big t and the Oakland stack that went off

    Guess the windmills worked

  • yountingly

    • 371

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #36

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @frUnk said...

    There are thousands of sites that offer DFS picks or advice, the difference is a majority of them are free. When people are paying a subscription to access your premium articles or information, much more is expected. Considering a lot of the writers are pros here, the expectations are set even higher. People pay the RG subscription because they don’t have 30+ hours a week to put in the amount of research that a pro does. So just be prepared to take the criticism and controversy that will come with the territory of being a “pro” column writer. And if you aren’t doing it for the love of DFS, and making the game better and seem more fair to a novice, or if you make substantially more money from your DFS winnings, then don’t be a “Tout” and keep your information to yourself.

    Any time people are actually paying money they are now a customer and the expectations have gone up. This situation is almost like paying for stock tips, and the tout says company “A” stock is going to sky rocket, and then the stock guru has 0℅ exposure to company “A” in his portfolio.

    The industry already has bad vibes from the FD fiasco with an employee winning a big GPP, and he might have had player exposure info or whatever. States are trying to ban the game and or regulate it further. Any more “controversy” isn’t going to shed positive light on the industry as a whole.

    This is just an objective observation, I’m happy for the guy who won the Milly maker tournament. Just understand it from some other people’s view point, that the “tout” had hardly any of his core picks in the article, and ended up taking down the MM tournament. Whether or not column writers should update their article later in the week doesn’t matter, if they wish to update go for it.

    And this goes for every paid writer here at RG, if you don’t have a true passion for helping others, and giving some of your thoughts and plays for the week, and you make so much more money from your winnings, please stop being a writer.

    I sincerely don’t think there was any intentions of him holding back his core picks this week, but just be prepared to take that heat from some people. Congratz on the huge win!!

    Did you read Eric’s post on this thread? I don’t think you did. He had plenty of exposure to his picks in his 150 MM lus. With 150 lus and “touting” only 10-15 in the article (if that is how many it was..I am not a premium member), there will be many plays that are not in the article. Do you actually expect every guy in every lu to be in the article. It’s not possible. So your analogy to the stock trader having 0% in his portfolio after touting a stock has no merit whatsoever since, in some cases, he apparently had like 40% exposure to some of them.

    Also, multiple posts have question him not updating his picks. Did you miss the part about being sick enough to have to go to the hospital and then away all day Saturday for a wedding? In turn, this was the first time he has ever not updated his picks.

    Also, it was a DK employee who won a big GPP and not FD.

  • HoneyBadgerDFS

    I usually dont comment on most of ridiculous stuff that goes on here, but after reading that monologue i have to say something.

    This situation being handled so terribly is unacceptable considering all the minds at work here. Literally ALL Eric has to do is put a disclaimer in his post saying something like

    “These picks are my favorite guys going into week ___ as of today. However due to the fact that I MME tournaments, and late breaking news I may end up on plays not mentioned in this article. “

    Simple. The statement of “he was sick so blah blah” is by far the dumbest thing i think ive heard. PLEASE tell us another business you PAY for where a lack of accurate or quality service is allowed due to sickness?

    If u pay a stock broker, and they dont update you on a stock to invest in because they are sick but still have the ability to invest in it themselves thats okay?

    Dont put ya foots in your mouths with bad logic. Just post a disclaimer and carry on. Also you can Find an editor to update articles with notes based on late breaking news.

    Additionally, if Rotogrinders has ANY INTEGRITY at all they will stop saying its Pros are using that RG lineup builder when in reality they are using a competing service. I know you guys delete posts when they name a competitor but thats lying and False advertisement to say they are using it when they arent. This isnt the first time either so spare us the “it was an accident”

    - Badger Out

  • donkshow

    This is absurd. A bunch of babies here wanting to be spoon-fed plays and assume that translates in to winning lineups.

    Congrats on the win, man.

  • RotoRaff

    Just my two cents… (just from the outside looking in)

    First off huge congrats to Eric Crain on the big win.

    “Frunk” does have the point that some people don’t have that time to put in all of the time during the week to do their own research so they rely on the writers and soaking up all of the information they can. So the fact that when you provide a service the customer always does come first.

    JM, I think the best way to combat any backlash is to in fact update information later in the week. Everyone who plays DFS knows people tinker and change their mind from something that is written on Wednesday and then come Saturday night/Sunday morning. If you want to be on the best content providers, then you want the most up to date information.

    I can see why some customers who use that article as part of their research are angry. I mean come on only one player out of how ever many was on his top team and who knows how many were on his other two that had high finishes. But on the other side of this… come on people.. Crain is a 150 lineup + guy who has exposures to numerous players so taking advice from a narrowed down player pool article isn’t the best move. He could have had someone he had 2% exposure to and just happened to be on the winning team.

    And final thought maybe instead of a narrowed down player pool article go with an article named “Eric’s Exposures” and give a player from each position and the range of exposure you have of that player. So say like QB- David Carr (20-30%) exposure and a little write up about your reasoning. Obviously you don’t have to give away all your secret plays but that way you’re also building trust with customers and don’t have to deal with any backlash because you lost money on that player too.

    Just an idea but what the heck Congrats Mr.Crain! Maybe I can qualify for one of these Live Finals and get to meet ya!

    Good luck to everybody in Week 9

  • elctrceye

    • Blogger of the Month

    @donkshow said...

    This is absurd. A bunch of babies here wanting to be spoon-fed plays and assume that translates in to winning lineups.

    Congrats on the win, man.

    Great post donk. While JMtoWin seems to be apologizing for whatever level of ‘controversy’ that has come from this big win, it’s hardly worth saying sorry for. A lot of people put in a lot of work to provide content on a weekly basis and to think that by trying to better a certain aspect of lineup building is worth apologizing for is ludicrous to me.

  • HungryHungryHip

    So many jealous, butt hurt babies. Every single one of them. And we know most of them are from the “I watch football so I should win ALL the money and if I don’t it’s rigged” crowd.

    Eric, RG, etc have nothing to apologize for. If you can’t understand how the NFL evolves from Wednesday to Sunday and you expect these people to update every single lineup or player they are interested in onto the forums or their articles then you’re an entitled idiot. Learn to think for yourself, do your own lineups and stop being a baby.

    Jesus.

  • donkshow

    I can write an NHL article at 10am and as info comes out throughout the day, I completely change my approach. Or if something I was on becomes way too chalky, I’ll switch it up. Once my articles are out, I am in lineup mode. I don’t want to worry about constantly going back and making tweaks to these things.

    Articles are to help a bit, not spoon feed you plays. That is why general strategy articles and more generic “plays” articles are so much better than “here’s a guy, use him”.

  • steelcitydozer

    Great win ! I didn’t have the balls to fade T.y. Hilton , ware, and Evans in my LU ‘S . at least 1 in each

  • donkshow

    I don’t know why this is aggravating me so much, and I have absolutely no dog in this fight. I don’t watch any RG shows nor read any of the articles anymore. I don’t even really know who Eric Crain is as I said, I don’t want the shows anymore. But the flack that Crain is getting is BEYOND insane.

    If he’s got 150 teams all it takes is one non-written up stack to go off to change everything. I don’t know how well his entire arsenal of teams did, but if he had 150 teams, wrote up 11 guys and say only 15 teams made the top 500 in the Milly.. he’s going to have a LOT of guys on his teams that aren’t written up… maybe his entire write up of plays bombed and were on his other 135 teams?

    If he only had Carr/Cooper on 15 teams, those teams are going to be constructed similar. If he had Ryan/Julio on 40 teams, those are going to be constructed differently as well and not do any good.

    The FC vs. RG Lineup Builder is a whole other issue that I am not getting in to.

  • HungryHungryHip

    @donkshow said...

    I don’t know why this is aggravating me so much, and I have absolutely no dog in this fight. I don’t watch any RG shows nor read any of the articles anymore. I don’t even really know who Eric Crain is as I said, I don’t want the shows anymore. But the flack that Crain is getting is BEYOND insane.

    If he’s got 150 teams all it takes is one non-written up stack to go off to change everything. I don’t know how well his entire arsenal of teams did, but if he had 150 teams, wrote up 11 guys and say only 15 teams made the top 500 in the Milly.. he’s going to have a LOT of guys on his teams that aren’t written up… maybe his entire write up of plays bombed and were on his other 135 teams?

    If he only had Carr/Cooper on 15 teams, those teams are going to be constructed similar. If he had Ryan/Julio on 40 teams, those are going to be constructed differently as well and not do any good.

    I think you and I(and others) know this is more about the cry baby, jealousy than anything else. If RG writers were to update their picks and articles on the hour EVERY hour, listing out 250 plays total by weeks end people would complain with “well, yeah of course they’re gonna be right sometimes when they toss out 250 names.” You can’t please this crowd no matter what you do.

  • Johnnyplayer

    First off congrats Eric! Great win. I love the idea of being consistent on adding the contributors thoughts by Saturday, even if it’s to say no update. As far as Eric misleading….I think everyone needs to realize that rotogrinders is an informational tool. That’s it. You use this site with all other information and data to build your lineup(s). Eric could have easily lost Sunday on one play. We all know that. I’m glad this happened. hopefully we will see some final thoughts before Sunday kickoff. No ‘controversy’ here. Keep up the great work guys! JP

  • detroittigers44

    So here is my two cents.. I write a weekly DFS Column for a website out of Detroit and its been going really well. My picks week in and week out are pretty much killing it. However, they are weeks like this one, where I don’t take my own advice and it kills me. I had Carson Palmer and Derek Carr written up as two of my best QB plays. I played 20 lineups this week and had zero of them… Haha, nobody is criticizing me for that? What the hell was I doing? Honestly the Montgomery news threw me for a big loop and screwed everything up from the time I published my article (Saturday afternoon) to the time the Sunday slate locked. I had Montgomery in all 20 lineups. So, yeah I could have just swapped Montgomery for Adams and called it a day, but no, I tinkered and messed with them all and ended up costing myself big time.

    Bottom line is… These guys are doing a service. As JM stated, the goal is not to give you picks, but to give you the breakdowns that point you in the right direction to make the best possible decisions on your selections. For someone that makes 150 lineups, you really can’t give your entire player pool to the masses just to be completely transparent, that’s not how it works. Maybe for fun you make some completely off the board lineup that makes absolutely no sense in reality, but in a tournament, anything goes… You aren’t writing up those players and distributing them to people that are paying for a premium service.

    If you think that anything is “fishy” about this win, go try out another site…RG has some of the best in the business at what they do. Are they the only game in town? Nope, but I think its a pretty good crew here and all of these guys are successful in what they do. Its not a coincidence that Crain, BigT, Notorious all have had huge wins over the past few weeks, these guys know what they are doing.

    And Eric, congrats to you sir. I don’t know you, but I have seen many shows and you always do a solid job at breaking things down. Don’t worry about the haters, they are all jealous, I know I am… I was happy that I won $6 this week when it was all said and done, haha. Keep living the dream.

  • dudeoflife

    • 68

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #11

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x3

      2015 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    The following is an article about my player pool for mass entering DK. disclaimer: none of these players will actually be in my player pool. That should cover it.

  • crazydaisy2013

    @TeamSwish412 said...

    I mean a few thoughts.

    A) Everyones trying to win, so why would they give you their true picks? To me, if I was as hardcore as these guys, no chance Id give away everything I am going to do. Id give a small sliver.

    B) The big guns use 150 lineups. Most of you dont. You have a much better chance of winning with 150 than you do with your 1-5. Its just fact. You can tell me all you want about how spending $3k in this tourney vs. $20 to $100 doesnt matter, but it does.

    C) These podcasts and articles also give you like 80 possible plays, and then pound their chests when a few hit. I can name 15 QBs that can have a good week. And of course some will hit.

    D) The best way to win (outside of making a ton of lineups) is to do your own research and go with your own plays. You are going to get swayed evey which way but ultimately, its up to you to get through the smoke and key in on your players.

    Because you pay for it

  • Pitch120

    I mean reverse the situation. Wouldn’t you do the same thing?

    To me, you get what you pay for when buying any “tout”. They’re going to give you a few plays, just enough so you feel like you have something, but they aren’t going to give you everything. Wouldn’t you do the same thing?

    And then if they win a big pool, it’ll only help the service in that more people are going to buy to get picks.

    I don’t fault RG or the writers. Their goal is to make money. If people are frustrated, then don’t buy the service. Just like if you are frustrated with FD or DK, then don’t play on their sites. But people are still going to give RG money, so it’s all for naught.

    I will never spend a dollar buying tout picks, because I see right through it all.

  • KillaChap

    @dudeoflife said...

    The following is an article about my player pool for mass entering DK. disclaimer: none of these players will actually be in my player pool. That should cover it.

    (response to you specifically) This is actually on the bottom of the Rotogrinders mobile version/app. I was happy when I saw it the other day.

    (comment on the thread) Who the hell is complaining about this stuff? I don’t know Eric but I watch every one of his (free) shows because he’s a likeable dude and because he’s blatantly honest. I am ticked off I didn’t win more than $25 this weekend and quite jealous that I didn’t win 1.35 mil but I’m certainly not going to blame anyone but myself (and Julio Jones… and the Packers for being stupid about Montgomery). It seems like people want the advice from these pros but then don’t want them to be able to win anything. It’s starting to get so annoying that I find myself actually wanting each of these guys to win every week just to flip the bird to cry babies.

  • Mod518

    I actually think HoneyBadger is pretty close to on point with the disclaimer. Apparently this is needed to keep people from complaining. There is only currently one piece of weekly DFS content that has a disclaimer to my knowledge, DKs own Edge podcast. When I heard it for the first time I thought it was incredibly upfront and honest. Reasonable people know plays and picks can change.
    I am not a premium service subscriber but I do think there should be some accountability for picks in cash games. Sometimes late news comes in that could pivot a few guys but I would suspect the core would remain the same. GPPs are a different story especially with multi-entry players. Sounds like Eric was talking about Carr/Amari on a RG show on Sunday.
    To Jm I would say, dont sweat this. People will always complain. To Eric, Congrats, you are the greatest Saluki dfs player of all time. Go Southern Go.

  • DomTwan

    @JMToWin said...

    I had over $18,000 in play this last weekend – and I played only one lineup, and it was all on DraftKings.

    So sick.

    Have you ever just had the nut lineup and won all the money in daily fantasy sports in a given week?

    What was your biggest ROI% in one week?

  • Gfry3

    First off, like most people have said, CONGRATS ERIC! Crazy to win that thing! I guess in my opinion if you are mad/angry then you are probably in the wrong. I don’t know Crain at all but I have listened to him several times and appears very genuine and honest with his picks. That said, as many have said subs are paying for this info and frustration is 100% understandable. Hard to pay up for a service like this when you are grinding 15-25$ a week and you make 0 on his main article plays and he makes all the money. Again not saying he withheld picks but you have to understand the frustration of subs.

    The 2 things concerns I have are that 1. I don’t think its a good policy for a tout on here or anywhere to say “well I play $20k a day and I don’t make anything worth while from my article so whatever” That is great for you, I have no ill will for you that way, but to say hey look how much I play and I don’t do this for the money, well then maybe its not for you? Not singling out Crain in the least, but I have seen that comment in this thread and it concerned me. and 2. I would think there needs to be some clarification of the FC lineup builder vs RG. I have really enjoyed Crain’s shows on the RG builder, felt like he did a great job on them, but if in fact he doesn’t use this at all I would be super bummed and without doubt never listen to that show again. I have 0 idea if that is true, so thinking clarification would be good for transparency.

    As far as ideas to improve, which all the applause to JM for listening which most places wouldn’t do!, maybe something in terms of what you did for baseball with the “consensus expert ranks” type thing? I thought that was kind of a cool thing to have showing who was nailing their picks and maybe who had an off week or 2.

  • Heterodox

    @donkshow said...

    Once my articles are out, I am in lineup mode. I don’t want to worry about constantly going back and making tweaks to these things.

    Then don’t charge people for your useless advice? How about that? Or at least make sure that people know your advice might turn out to be useless before they buy it, and that you won’t be held accountable for not sticking with it or informing them of any changes?

    I’m not being harsh here. If your advice is based on initial reads, then something changes and that is no longer your take, then your advice is useless, and if I paid for it I’d be pissed, unless of course I knew what I was getting. I, personally, do know how these things work, which is one reason I don’t pay for advice. Not the only reason, but one of them.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 533

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Hey guys, I want to clear up something on Crain using Cruncher instead of the RG Lineup Builder.

    First, Crain did use Cruncher to build the lineups he entered into the Milly Maker. Second, JM didn’t know that. He assumed Crain used our tool, especially since Crain does Lineup Builder shows on RG. I’m trying to find out in our Slack channels if we mentioned anywhere else that Crain used our Lineup Builder. If we did, it was a mistake, but it was not a lie or an integrity issue. Fantasy Cruncher has a great product. Nicslim’s team is constantly working to improve ours and already reached out to Crain to see what he prefers about Cruncher’s tool over ours.

    Meant to quote this from HoneyBadger’s post above:

    Additionally, if Rotogrinders has ANY INTEGRITY at all they will stop saying its Pros are using that RG lineup builder when in reality they are using a competing service. I know you guys delete posts when they name a competitor but thats lying and False advertisement to say they are using it when they arent. This isnt the first time either so spare us the “it was an accident”

  • manBEAST

    I really see no controversy here, I do not pay for any premium service and probably never will, where I think people are jealous is the fact that in order to make the life changing money in DFS, unless you truly get lucky, you need a big bankroll and lots of hard work. Most people don’t have the time, money, and life situation to make it happen so congrats to the people who do including Crain!

    He has been a great host here on the RG shows, but this is more of an industry issue. The pros have so much money on the line, using optimizers and lineup builders, I really think the better players are the ones still building lineups individually, but it’s like using a calculator vs. doing the work by hand. Unless you are smart about bankroll management, single entry, multi-entry, site selection, game selection, knowledge, theory, and time management you have no chance in the long run in the 150 max contests. I think in the future this 150 is going to be reduced to even the playing field more, the prize pools will come down unless a lot more people play…but therein lies the problem newbies are not going to stick around with the current format. I know this info has been spewed before so nothing new, congrats to Eric and good luck to all of us trying to get to where he is now at the top of the mountain!

  • crazydaisy2013

    @manBEAST said...

    I really see no controversy here, I do not pay for any premium service and probably never will, where I think people are jealous is the fact that in order to make the life changing money in DFS, unless you truly get lucky, you need a big bankroll and lots of hard work. Most people don’t have the time, money, and life situation to make it happen so congrats to the people who do including Crain!

    He has been a great host here on the RG shows, but this is more of an industry issue. The pros have so much money on the line, using optimizers and lineup builders, I really think the better players are the ones still building lineups individually, but it’s like using a calculator vs. doing the work by hand. Unless you are smart about bankroll management, single entry, multi-entry, site selection, game selection, knowledge, theory, and time management you have no chance in the long run in the 150 max contests. I think in the future this 150 is going to be reduced to even the playing field more, the prize pools will come down unless a lot more people play…but therein lies the problem newbies are not going to stick around with the current format. I know this info has been spewed before so nothing new, congrats to Eric and good luck to all of us trying to get to where he is now at the top of the mountain!

    You NEED to be a premium subscriber to understand the controversy.

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