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  • JMToWin

    • x2

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Hey, all!

    First off – I want to offer a massive congrats to one of RG’s own, Jakz101 (Eric Crain) on his Millionaire Maker win. If you’ve met Crain, you know he is genuinely one of the nicest guys you’ll ever come across. Super pumped for our newest millionaire!

    Secondly, and perhaps more importantly in some of your minds, I want to take a moment to address the “controversy” that has surrounded his win.

    For starters, it should be mentioned that any big win from a well-known DFS player/“tout” is going to generate at least some level of controversy. If someone writes articles and goes on air talking about the plays they like, people are going to comb through that individual’s thoughts from the week to see if they followed their own plays. Heck, the week Smizzle won the Milly, he had written up 7 of the 9 plays he used. People still complained.

    Of course, having cleared out that disclaimer, the situation here is admittedly a bit different.

    For those of you who are not Premium Content subscribers, here’s some quick background:

    Each week in NFL, Crain uses a lineup builder to create 150 lineups, which he throws into the Milly Maker. Because Crain is masterful at creating a sharp, narrowed-down player pool and turning this pool into a profitable weekend (while also – as witnessed this week – giving himself a clear shot at a huge weekend), I came up with the idea of a Premium article in which he would share some of the core pieces in his player pool (Crain writes this article for DraftKings Premium, while TheSeige – who is equally masterful in this area – writes this article for FanDuel).

    In theory, this was an awesome idea. As we saw this weekend – when Crain took first place (and three of the top four spots) in the Milly – having a look at some of his player pool could help readers a ton.

    The problem this week, of course, was that Crain listed 11 players in his article this last week, and only one showed up on his winning lineup. Naturally, this has led to some criticism and frustration from a handful of readers. If you will give me just three or four minutes, however, I would like to share some thoughts of my own, while also inviting you to collaborate with me in order to ensure we are continually putting out the absolute best product in the DFS industry.

    MY THOUGHTS:

    If you are a Premium subscriber, you know we have focused our product primarily on helping readers to make good picks on their own. Our flagship articles (my NFL Edge and MLB Edge, STLCards’ Covering the Bases, CheeseIsGood’s Million Dollar Musings, and JumpaHoo’s Jump Shot) are not written with the intention of “providing picks.” Instead, these articles are intended to, essentially, take a massive amount of research and transfer this research to the reader in an easily-digestible form. The NFL Edge, for example, takes me about 30 hours each week to research and write, and it takes about an hour to read – so in that hour of reading, you can pick up the 25 hours of research I accumulated myself. During MLB and NBA, these articles typically take around 20 to 30 minutes to read, and enable us to transfer 4 or 5 hours of research to the reader in that time. It was because of these articles that 12 different people told me at the DraftKings MLB live final in Toronto this last summer that they would not have won a seat to the live final without their Premium subscription.

    But we also, still, want to offer the more traditional-type articles – articles that are more picks-based. I know most of our readers have more of an interest in the research-driven pieces, but there are readers who prefer picks-driven pieces – and honestly, even those who do not prefer such pieces still typically click on these articles just to make sure there is nothing they are overlooking.

    The article concept I came up with for Crain and Seige was – in my mind – sort of a blend between the two. Obviously, no one can expect these guys to share their exact player pool each week, as this would lead to everyone plugging the same players into the Lineup Builder, and everyone ending up with nearly identical (or completely identical) teams. Instead, I envisioned this article being exactly what Crain’s was this last week: 11 to 15 players, with some obvious plays and some less obvious plays, and some thoughts on why these players would be cycled through his 150 rosters. What I did not have the foresight to envision, of course, was this situation occurring: a Milly Maker being won, with only one guy from the player pool on the team.

    First off, let’s be clear: this is totally on me, and I apologize to anyone who has been upset by this situation. I should have seen the potential for this to occur, and I should have made it more clear to readers what I saw this article being, or I should have come up with a plan to prevent this situation arising.

    At the same time, I also think there are things we can do better with the RotoGrinders Premium product. For example, I would love for all of our writers to update their articles later in the week. But readers of my own article know I have only done so twice myself, through the first eight weeks of the season. Once you shift to “roster construction” mode, the mental shift to going back and adding things to an article can be a weird one to make. But, again: it’s one we should all be attempting to make; this last week, I updated on Saturday primarily to convey that nothing much had changed in my thinking – but because I would love to set a precedent for readers that they can check back on Saturdays for my updated thoughts, I checked in to let readers know my thoughts were still in the same place (basically, a non-updated update, so readers can know each week that they should check back in case anything major has shifted in my thinking).

    Most weeks, in fact, Crain does the same thing. Most weeks, he updates his article with his late-week additions. It was quite unfortunate that this was not one such week – but this does open the door for us to discuss this, and to continue improving our product.

    My genuine goal is for RotoGrinders Premium to be the single most powerful and valuable DFS subscription any player can have. One of the great assets we have in this area is that all of our Premium writers have achieved consistent, reliable success at the highest level of play. We don’t just hire guys for Premium who “can do good research and write about it”; we don’t have a bunch of guys writing for us who do well with five dollars in play each week. Instead, we have a group of guys writing for us who have proven that they can take their research and turn it into successful DFS play at the highest buy-in levels, and against the toughest competition.

    This is awesome.

    What becomes a bit complicated, of course, is that writing DFS content is practically charity for most of these guys. For example: I had over $18,000 in play this last weekend – and I played only one lineup, and it was all on DraftKings. As you know, I am unique among “high-end” DFS players in playing only one lineup (and in often focusing my play on one site) – so if I had $18k in play on one site, with one lineup, you can imagine how much money some of these other guys have in play each weekend across multiple lineups and multiple sites. Moreover, most of these guys also play NBA at a high level (and are focused there on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday – in between their Premium articles coming out, and NFL kicking off on Sunday). No matter how much we pay writers, they are always going to have far more of a financial interest in maximizing their time for roster construction. I fear that if we go too far with requiring writers to constantly update their articles throughout the week, we will actually sacrifice quality quite a bit. Most high-end guys will eventually decide, “The money I’m being paid for constantly updating this article is not worth the tradeoff for the time being taken away from my roster construction.” This might lead to articles that are updated frequently…but that are no longer written by actual, successful DFS players. It’s definitely a conundrum, and I’m not certain there is even an easy, simple solution.

    What I will say is this:

    1) I hope no one thinks Crain was intentionally attempting to mislead anyone. If you know Crain, you know this was not the case. And if you listened to Crain’s late-week GrindersLive shows, you know he talked about nearly all the plays he used on his winning team. This was just an unfortunate blend of situations – a week in which Crain’s thoughts changed a lot as the week went on, and in which he did not get a chance to update his article. Most weeks, the guys he wrote up on Wednesday would have been the same guys you would have seen on his winning Milly Maker lineup – and then, the whole discussion here would be how ridiculously valuable that article is for readers, instead of the discussion being what it is now. Truly, anyone who looks at the big picture – examining Crain’s Player Pool article and how it has lined up with his actual rosters throughout the season – will know and acknowledge that this was just a really unfortunate blend of situations.

    2) I genuinely feel the blame for this falls onto me, as I was the one who came up with this article concept, and I was the one who failed to foresee something like this occurring. To any readers who were upset by this, please accept my apology – and please, again, realize that probably 6 out of 8 weeks so far, a “Crain Milly Maker win” would have matched up with his “Player Pool” article in a big way. It just sucks that this was a week in which thoughts changed late and updates were not made. (Note: I was just informed that this was actually the first week all season Crain did not add a late-week update to the article, as he was sick later in the week. Again, just a really unfortunate blend of situations…)

    3) Regarding “updates being made,” you can count on me for the remainder of the season to update the NFL Edge. We are going to try to make sure Crain and Seige drop some updates in their Player Pool articles when they can as well. (For what it’s worth, CheeseIsGood usually updates his MLB article close to lock; I have no idea how that dude is able to put in so much research, put in winning teams, and update his article close to lock in a truly daily sport, but suffice it to say, he’s a beast.) We are also working really hard to get our rankers to update their Consensus Value Rankings throughout the week, to reflect their updated thoughts. And I am going to talk to other writers about updating their articles in the rare instances when it is necessary for them to do so.

    I want the RG Premium platform to continue being the single most valuable subscription platform in the DFS industry, and of course, the balance there is having elite DFS players writing for us…while also trying to encourage these elite players to take a break from roster construction, and to go back and add things to their articles and/or rankings.

    This is where I could use your help!

    Please chime in below with any thoughts you have – both on how we can improve things in this specific area, and on anything else you have been thinking of lately that you would love to see incorporated into, or changed, or improved, or adjusted, in Premium.

    If you don’t mind, please refrain from using this thread as an area to be accusatory and/or nasty. I’m sure there are other places you can go to do that. Let’s, instead, reserve this thread for constructive discussion (also: feel free to let us know things you like about Premium and do not want to see changed, so we can make sure to keep strengthening those areas).

    Thanks so much for your ear (and sorry for the length!)

    -JM

    (P.S. Monday-through-Wednesday is “NFL Edge research and writing” time for me, so I won’t be able to drop in a ton on this thread during the first half of the week. But I’ll do my best, and I will definitely come through here during the second half of the week – as will other RG guys, I hope/assume.)

  • depalma13

    The lesson is simple.

    If you have time to update your lineups, you have more than enough time to update your paid subscribers.

  • VChair23

    • 953

      RG Overall Ranking

    1. Congrats Eric
    2. From the conversation on Morning Wood Sunday Eric did not move onto Carr and Cooper until Hoop/T both discussed it. They moved me onto Carr/Cooper, to expect someone to update their written content Sunday morning is extreme in my opinion.

  • sgaffney

    I don’t know Eric Crain. I’m not delighted or ecstatic he won a million dollars. Im also not envious/jealous/bitter (delete as needed) about it. It’s just a thing that happened that will have no bearing on my life. So please remember this if you think this is coming from a place of jealousy/envy/bitterness.

    I don’t think this incident in and of itself is a huge issue. I am also an incentives paid subscriber so I do have some thoughts on it.

    Incentives is by and large pretty helpful. I think NBA could be improved this year, same with golf and NFL has never personally been very useful for me as there is just so much NFL content and we have a whole week to research but I have benefitted greatly from incentives in the past.

    My issue here is some of the language being used to defend the content and the idea that we as paid members should in some way be grateful for even getting any content as these DFS pros have either so much money in play that they can’t be worried about their articles or simple don’t have the time to update, is quite frankly, bullshit. Whether content providers realise it or not it is their job, it might not be as important to you as your other job but if people on the other side are paying for it, it’s a job that ought to be taken seriously. Yes you have these jobs because you (hopefully) have a proven track record in DFS, that’s great. But hold back on the ego parade, you also have these jobs because you have the time necessary to research. Most people do not, hence the paying a monthly fee thing.

    Telling that us that what you get paid for the article pales into comparison with how much you had in play, seems hmmmmm, counter productive to say the least. You don’t seem awfully worried about the content of your article, why should we?

    There is a tendency for witch hunts and wild conspiracies on this board but that also doesn’t necessarily make every complaint or suggestion a witch hunt or wild theory. I don’t think Eric intentionally misled people. I think he didn’t have a great week in work last week. No big deal, but if you work in such a public forum expect people to criticise you. He obviously doesn’t need this RG gig right now but maybe in the future he will and maybe some of the other RG paid employees quite value their jobs when they have a few bad DFS weeks. My point is, we get that you guys all do this as a secondary job but that really doesn’t matter to us, we pay for a product and we have a right to complain if something doesn’t seem right. Also, pointing out that he was sick seems, problematic. He threw together a few hundred teams and made it to RG live, he probably could have done a quick update.

    It’s good to see Cal in these forums and actively participating. I think the NFL articles could definitely do with some updating ever week, not if you guys have the time or whatever, I just think it should be part of it. Silva does it every week and his article is free. Like it or not, that’s what you’re competing with.

    I don’t want to dump the incentives package. I like RG, I know how to navigate the site, where to find the stuff I need, whose opinion I value, whose I can ignore etc. I don’t want to move to another site but I think the NBA package needs work (noticed some changes today), the golf package could do with some updating and these changes need to be made to the NFL. While I’m here, it would be great to get MMA incentives, but I don’t want to push it!

    There’s no crazy conspiracy here but we’re also entitled to at least a little bit of moaning, hopefully RG can fix and we can all move on with our lives!

  • PigskinaBlanket

    • 216

      RG Overall Ranking

    • x3

      2019 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    • x2

      2016 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    McDonalds stock up today on forecast of increased McRib sales out of St Louis

  • rjgboom

    I don’t subscribe because I haven’t thought the football coverage was worth it. I think you all owe your subscribers Sunday or Saturday night updates at least. You have to let your brain process all that data you see Tuesday-Wednesday for a few days before you make your best picks.

    I think RGs is skimming a little too much off the top for games of this variance.

  • gridironguru99

    • 329

      RG Overall Ranking

    Would you give a business $18k of your money if you knew they couldn’t pay their vendors ?

  • slcseas

    @sgaffney said...

    I don’t know Eric Crain. I’m not delighted or ecstatic he won a million dollars. Im also not envious/jealous/bitter (delete as needed) about it. It’s just a thing that happened that will have no bearing on my life. So please remember this if you think this is coming from a place of jealousy/envy/bitterness.

    I don’t think this incident in and of itself is a huge issue. I am also an incentives paid subscriber so I do have some thoughts on it.

    Incentives is by and large pretty helpful. I think NBA could be improved this year, same with golf and NFL has never personally been very useful for me as there is just so much NFL content and we have a whole week to research but I have benefitted greatly from incentives in the past.

    My issue here is some of the language being used to defend the content and the idea that we as paid members should in some way be grateful for even getting any content as these DFS pros have either so much money in play that they can’t be worried about their articles or simple don’t have the time to update, is quite frankly, bullshit. Whether content providers realise it or not it is their job, it might not be as important to you as your other job but if people on the other side are paying for it, it’s a job that ought to be taken seriously. Yes you have these jobs because you (hopefully) have a proven track record in DFS, that’s great. But hold back on the ego parade, you also have these jobs because you have the time necessary to research. Most people do not, hence the paying a monthly fee thing.

    Telling that us that what you get paid for the article pales into comparison with how much you had in play, seems hmmmmm, counter productive to say the least. You don’t seem awfully worried about the content of your article, why should we?

    There is a tendency for witch hunts and wild conspiracies on this board but that also doesn’t necessarily make every complaint or suggestion a witch hunt or wild theory. I don’t think Eric intentionally misled people. I think he didn’t have a great week in work last week. No big deal, but if you work in such a public forum expect people to criticise you. He obviously doesn’t need this RG gig right now but maybe in the future he will and maybe some of the other RG paid employees quite value their jobs when they have a few bad DFS weeks. My point is, we get that you guys all do this as a secondary job but that really doesn’t matter to us, we pay for a product and we have a right to complain if something doesn’t seem right. Also, pointing out that he was sick seems, problematic. He threw together a few hundred teams and made it to RG live, he probably could have done a quick update.

    It’s good to see Cal in these forums and actively participating. I think the NFL articles could definitely do with some updating ever week, not if you guys have the time or whatever, I just think it should be part of it. Silva does it every week and his article is free. Like it or not, that’s what you’re competing with.

    I don’t want to dump the incentives package. I like RG, I know how to navigate the site, where to find the stuff I need, whose opinion I value, whose I can ignore etc. I don’t want to move to another site but I think the NBA package needs work (noticed some changes today), the golf package could do with some updating and these changes need to be made to the NFL. While I’m here, it would be great to get MMA incentives, but I don’t want to push it!

    There’s no crazy conspiracy here but we’re also entitled to at least a little bit of moaning, hopefully RG can fix and we can all move on with our lives!

    Best post I’ve read in a long time

  • Unico10

    • 500

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #75

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @sgaffney said...

    My issue here is some of the language being used to defend the content and the idea that we as paid members should in some way be grateful for even getting any content as these DFS pros have either so much money in play that they can’t be worried about their articles or simple don’t have the time to update, is quite frankly, bullshit. Whether content providers realise it or not it is their job, it might not be as important to you as your other job but if people on the other side are paying for it, it’s a job that ought to be taken seriously. Yes you have these jobs because you (hopefully) have a proven track record in DFS, that’s great. But hold back on the ego parade, you also have these jobs because you have the time necessary to research. Most people do not, hence the paying a monthly fee thing.

    +1

  • KillaChap

    Isn’t doing these articles and GridnersLive shows considered part of the research process? I mean these guys have to research their recommendations and then they’re basically bouncing their ideas off of other experts before settling on their own lineups. I would think that participating in articles and GrindersLive is something you would be doing anyway as a DFS pro but you’re just sharing it with people who are paying for your opinions. I hope Crain doesn’t quit now that he doesn’t need the charity.

  • beastmode11

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I have watched probably 80% of the shows Eric has hosted since baseball season started and I just could not be happier for the guy. Shows up every day with a smile on his face and an undeniable enthusiasm for what he is doing. While I enjoy all of the Rotogrinders content there is no question in my mind that EC is the best host on the site.

    All of that being said if you are taking in content from Rotogrinders and you do not consider everything that comes out of Big T’s mouth gospel you are doing it wrong. I read all of Eric’s content and watched all his shows and I ended up with Carr and Cooper on pretty much everything. The reason why is pretty simple…….WHY OVER WHO. Of all the content I took in, and the many hours of research I did last week, no argument was more compelling for any player(s) than Big T’s argument for Carr and Cooper. Those two plays checked every single box you look for in GPP players.

    Congrats Eric on the huge win and thanks for all of the hours you have spent helping a guy like me understanding the theories and skills it takes to be successful in this game…..

  • Newbie123

    • 2015 FanDuel CFB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @madmanjayWV said...

    What is the controversy of entering 150 LINEUPS and having the NUTS? Am I missing something?

    it was that he didn’t use any of the players he had talked about in his shows. People just complain alot

  • beezchild

    I think Eric should split up his winnings and give it to all or those who are upset. The responses in this thread are some of the stupidest things I’ve read in a long time. If you are unhappy look elsewhere. JM is trying to be as transparent as possible. I can’t imagine how some of you guys manage your daily life, when something as trivial as this gets you this upset.

  • wwhis

    I was glad to see Eric win. I enjoy his show the morning grind. It upsets me he uses another product to do his line ups while touting RG’s lineup builder. That is of course his right. His use of another product is probably why his “course” on mass GPP entries is a little lite on details. I purchased the course and think it is worth the price because of the mass editing info.
    I did not compare Eric’s article to his lineup. In the article showing his total list of players there are 17, including defenses with over 25% selection out of 49 ( if I counted correctly) total player population.
    It is unfair to criticize the winning lineup not having X% of the players in his article as long as they were represented in the total player population.
    I am commenting based on the difficulty of editing each of 150 lineups in the RG builder. I will check out the one he uses.
    I shouldn’t complain about what I get for nothing. The RG Lineup builder. So I won’t.
    Being retired I have a lot of time to browse the internet and read content on other sites and do trial memberships on what they cost and what one gets for the money.
    I believe you get what you pay for at RG but that one cannot be serious about playing for serious money using RG’s prime content and tools.
    I do not play for serious money and so far am unwilling to pay what other sites charge for their content.
    If I get to where I am serious and experienced enough to pay $20.00 apiece to enter $150.00 lineups, I will add a lot of sites for info. Just think how many articles on RG reference other sites.
    RG is trying to be a one stop shop in a very complex business and really doing it quiet well in my opinion from $.25 seats.

  • JimmyDick85

    @beezchild said...

    I think Eric should split up his winnings and give it to all or those who are upset. The responses in this thread are some of the stupidest things I’ve read in a long time. If you are unhappy look elsewhere. JM is trying to be as transparent as possible. I can’t imagine how some of you guys manage your daily life, when something as trivial as this gets you this upset.

    I agree that it’s trivial in the sense that playing DFS is a luxury and doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of life, but what’s wrong with questioning the quality of a product you pay for? My morning coffee being made wrong is also trivial, but that doesn’t mean I won’t ask Starbucks to remake it…

    To JM and Eric’s credit, they are being very transparent in discussing the issue with their customers and generating ideas to improve the RG Premium product while working to avoid this type of “controversy” in the future. While there certainly appears to be some venting by frustrated members, for the most part the comments seem fairly constructive to me. I’ll flip it around on you – what does calling the commenters in this thread stupid add to the discussion? What do you suggest to further improve the RG Premium product?

  • Jcb890

    I’m guessing this comment won’t garner much interest or response since it isn’t about Premium content, but I’m going to make it anyways…

    The non-paid (non-Premium) content has taken quite a hit with the Lineup Builder shows gone. To be completely honest, I only knew about the DK and FD Lineup Builder shows at all because there was a post in the forum saying they were going to be put behind the paywall. So, I saw it for the last week it was available before it went behind the Premium wall. I’m probably not the only one who did not know about these broadcasts either.

  • KillaChap

    @Jcb890 said...

    I’m guessing this comment won’t garner much interest or response since it isn’t about Premium content, but I’m going to make it anyways…

    The non-paid (non-Premium) content has taken quite a hit with the Lineup Builder shows gone. To be completely honest, I only knew about the DK and FD Lineup Builder shows at all because there was a post in the forum saying they were going to be put behind the paywall. So, I saw it for the last week it was available before it went behind the Premium wall. I’m probably not the only one who did not know about these broadcasts either.

    I was disappointed when they started doing this too, I believe it’s been 2 weeks now. That being said, if you have the app on your phone, they still offer a lot of quality podcasts and live replays of their shows including the same people. I usually spend Sunday morning going through most of them, including JM’s expert roundtable (I think that’s his.) As far as the other non-paid content, I think it’s still solid which is why I don’t purchase the invectives (to be honest.) Noto’s first look, the Grout article, JM’s free article, Raybon’s article, they all offer some serious quality research for free.

  • Jcb890

    @KillaChap said...

    I was disappointed when they started doing this too, I believe it’s been 2 weeks now. That being said, if you have the app on your phone, they still offer a lot of quality podcasts and live replays of their shows including the same people. I usually spend Sunday morning going through most of them, including JM’s expert roundtable (I think that’s his.) As far as the other non-paid content, I think it’s still solid which is why I don’t purchase the invectives (to be honest.) Noto’s first look, the Grout article, JM’s free article, Raybon’s article, they all offer some serious quality research for free.

    Yeah, I think last week was the first time it was put behind the paywall. Two weeks ago was the first time I had heard about it or watched it. It was a good show, I enjoyed the insight that week… but then they made it Premium only.

    To be completely honest (and I really mean no disrespect to any of the RG contributors or guests), the only non-pay show worth watching is the Expert Round Table when it is Adam, JM and Jeff. Sometimes when they add in other guys, it takes away from the content and they tend to not bring nearly as much to the table (I won’t name any names). The Friday Night DFS Live show is also good sometimes, but other times… not so good.

  • GiantMisha

    Loved watching Eric win and never thought he was “holding back”. But, I will say that if RG is going to charge for content then that content should be updated. Some of the lineup shows are taped on Tuesday for Sunday games. Not sure I want to pay for old info. I bought the package has a learning tool so I could soak in as much DFS knowledge as possible and learn how to make my own projections. But old information is kind of useless. If the guys don’t have time to update (which I understand) then maybe you shouldn’t have a Premium content subscription.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 255

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @GiantMisha said...

    Loved watching Eric win and never thought he was “holding back”. But, I will say that if RG is going to charge for content then that content should be updated. Some of the lineup shows are taped on Tuesday for Sunday games. Not sure I want to pay for old info. I bought the package has a learning tool so I could soak in as much DFS knowledge as possible and learn how to make my own projections. But old information is kind of useless. If the guys don’t have time to update (which I understand) then maybe you shouldn’t have a Premium content subscription.

    I think the problem is a bit more complex, and that RotoGrinders is not the only premium content site that faces this problem with NFL. There are lots of premium content pieces in both daily and season long that are posted on Wednesday and not updated later. There are also times in which content can’t be updated – for example, if Jamaal Charles is announced as a surprise inactive 15 minutes before kickoff we can’t reasonably expect a contributor to update his old content piece and for a paying subscriber to then read that particular piece out of the 17 available. A premium video simply can’t be updated like a premium article can be. Also, much of our content is already being updated after initial posting.

    We do feel the need to improve here and are considering various ways to do it. Staggering content posting times throughout the week is a strong option. Requiring regular updates on some pieces and clearly communicating to subscribers when to expect those updates. If a piece is not going to be updated we need to clearly communicate that as well. We’re getting lots of good feedback in this thread and discussing it internally now.

  • beezchild

    JimmyDick85
    “I’ll flip it around on you – what does calling the commenters in this thread stupid add to the discussion? What do you suggest to further improve the RG Premium product?”

    I mentioned it was the “comments” not the “commentators” that are stupid to me. My comment is an attempt to add a little bit of realism to the idea that this “controversy” is neither controversial or a reason to feel slighted. Do you really feel personally slighted if someone makes your coffee wrong? Do you think that the person behind the counter deliberately made your coffee wrong in an attempt to make you never order that coffee again. I don’t know you and I guarantee you, that you do not. I agree if the discussion about making the Premium product better actually stays on just that, but too often in DFS the discussion turns to witch hunts. As far the overall RG product, it seems to me they put out so much Free content that the premium content seems almost unnecessary for me. I will also concede that paying a fee does entitle people to opinions, stupid or not.

  • phillygamecox

    @beezchild said...

    I mentioned it was the “comments” not the “commentators” that are stupid to me. My comment is an attempt to add a little bit of realism to the idea that this “controversy” is neither controversial or a reason to feel slighted. Do you really feel personally slighted if someone makes your coffee wrong? Do you think that the person behind the counter deliberately made your coffee wrong in an attempt to make you never order that coffee again. I don’t know you and I guarantee you, that you do not. I agree if the discussion about making the Premium product better actually stays on just that, but too often in DFS the discussion turns to witch hunts. As far the overall RG product, it seems to me they put out so much Free content that the premium content seems almost unnecessary for me. I will also concede that paying a fee does entitle people to opinions, stupid or not.

    Agreed here, specifically on your last point of paying the fee does entitle you to stating your opinions. I think the main thing that has helped fuel this isn’t specifically on the timing of the articles(which doesn’t help), but the statement by JM about this being “charity” work for most of these guys. In other words, those that pay should feel blessed by the hand of god(over the top yes) to be graced by the content that is placed on the RG pages by these guys. I’m sure JM regrets the way he said that, but people will start tying pieces together when the content manager makes a statement like that, as benign as he thought it might be. Witch hunts have started with far less.

    I for one was more personally interested in the other ailment that made Crain go to the hospital in the last 5 years aside from his sudden illness this past week. He gave us such a detailed recap of his sickness and wedding extravaganza, but never told us why he was in the hospital the other time over the last 5 years. We deserve to have that info! :)

  • NYJetsfan2881

    You guys will all be happier when you realize you won’t be profitable at DFS and play because it’s a fun hobby. :D

  • GiantBallofOil

    There were six pages yesterday and only seven today? Either you guys are slipping or this “controversy” isn’t much of one. Like most of this stuff, you can see both sides. My unsolicited opinions:

    1) The most inaccurate thing said in the whole chain is that people like Eric have a reason to “hold back” opinions. No single professional opinion moves the meter enough to matter, so there’s no strategic reason. Also, and this is something I can corroborate first-hand, it’s easier to write about the players of which you have stronger opinions. You have more statistical support and a better grasp of their situation, inherently. That is, Eric would be making his life harder by withholding the players he likes. That’s just flatly not happening.

    2) I don’t know if anyone complaining has checked this, but I bet his Thursday plays on sites that lock match his recommendations strongly. In this sport, with evolving information, particularly at the 11th hour, and evolving opinions, it is just going to happen that your thoughts and plays on Sunday are going to morph from Wednesday.

    3) For the people pushing back on the “I play for way more than I get paid for articles,” comments, I totally agree. It’s shitty to hear, when you pay for those articles. It doesn’t make it untrue, but it is shitty. We shouldn’t use that as a crutch.

    4) For the people saying a hospital-level illness, an out-of-town wedding, and providing updated opinions on-air are bad excuses to preempt updating the opinions in his article, that is equally shitty. All because you pay for his article doesn’t mean he doesn’t get to be a human person in the world, experiencing human person things.

    5) I think this ultimately boils down to what is a reasonable expectation, when you pay for a Wednesday article. Is it expected you get the opinions only at the moment in time, or do you have ownership of that person’s opinions for the entire week, as they evolve. That’s the crux. I lean toward “at that moment,” but I get those who expect more.

    Congrats Crain. The closest to the nuts any FF Millionaire line-up has been this year.

  • proshares

    @sgaffney said...

    My issue here is some of the language being used to defend the content and the idea that we as paid members should in some way be grateful for even getting any content as these DFS pros have either so much money in play that they can’t be worried about their articles or simple don’t have the time to update, is quite frankly, bullshit. Whether content providers realise it or not it is their job, it might not be as important to you as your other job but if people on the other side are paying for it, it’s a job that ought to be taken seriously. Yes you have these jobs because you (hopefully) have a proven track record in DFS, that’s great. But hold back on the ego parade, you also have these jobs because you have the time necessary to research. Most people do not, hence the paying a monthly fee thing.

    Could not have said it better myself. That’s the only issue that I have coming out of this whole “controversy”. That’s a really fucked up thing to hear/read as the point of view of people whose opinions you have come to value/respect.

  • sgaffney

    @slcseas said...

    Best post I’ve read in a long time

    Thanks, I appreciate it

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