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  • srolleDFS

    crazygabey was interviewed in the latest new york times hit piece. he said that what was happening between some players of varying skill levels was akin to rape (and pillaging). when someone loses $5 in dfs they end up without that $5. nothing else happens. they may have to scale their next bar tab back to $45, or maybe suffer some other inconvenience of being $5 poorer. when someone is raped, something much much more signifcant happens. the two are not comparable, and its not ok to triviaize rape by comapring them.

    maybe gabey thinks they are? maybe he hasnt actually ever thought about the words he uses? i dont know but its offensive.

    Link to article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/magazine/how-the-daily-fantasy-sports-industry-turns-fans-into-suckers.html?_r=0

  • ldavidjm

    Thanks for posting Gabey. I think most people are just afraid of DFS going away, changing, etc. and when people are afraid they lash out…..

    I thought the article was very well written and Jay and you laid out the issues in an forthright and understandable manner. I had my wife who knows very little about DFS read it as well and she agreed. Best of luck to you, hopefully DFS survives and you host a show or podcast again.

  • Cobra_Kai

    I didn’t learn anything new in the article, these are the same issues that we have been discussing for many months now. It just gets read by a wider audience.

    DFS has plenty of awesome positives too, but those don’t get discussed. I have a great family, career, and passion for my hobby of DFS. I understand the odds are stacked against me, but I deposited less than $100 over 2 years ago and have a very nice bankroll as it stands today.

    Gabey, if you feel so strongly about the issues in the industry, why do you still play at Fanduel?

  • AidenTheEnemy

    Fwiw I question the intentions of everyone. I don’t need profile images or a play on words to cause me to question. Gabey is correct in that it doesn’t matter. There is a process in seeking truth and this is not something that is an infinite debate like what happens after we die. There are outcomes and It takes people to speak out. I understand the fear of “a black eye” and what happened to online poker. I’m relatively new to DFS and I want to know how much of advantage the big guns have with scripting and what compromises can be made.

  • jstevens2k11

    CrazyGabey why didnt you make it onto SiriusXM this morning? Just curious, Im open minded about this whole topic/thread, just asking and not pointing fingers

  • Thanasi

    @hambazaza said...

    thats not the quote that is in question

    ““The idea that these sites exist so that regular guys can make a lot of money playing daily fantasy sports is a lie,” Harber told me. “FanDuel and DraftKings are optimized for power players to rape and pillage regular players over and over again.”

    He’s absolutely right and that’s why the “sharks” are pissed. Stop with trying to deflect with the rape crap, anyone with half a brain understood completely what the beard was talking about. I’ve tried for over a year to say that this mass entry BS would be the downfall and some of you narcissists just keep on keepin on. You guys understand that players like MaxD are twisting the system to benefit themselves at the expense of your accounts.

  • Jcb890

    @jstevens2k11 said...

    CrazyGabey why didnt you make it onto SiriusXM this morning? Just curious, Im open minded about this whole topic/thread, just asking and not pointing fingers

    Are you posting in regards to Tony Cincotta’s SiriusXM show this morning?

    Gabe agreed to join the show. Gabe didn’t show up. They called him 2x – 1st time it went to voicemail, 2nd time he picked up and hung up.

  • jstevens2k11

    Correct, thats what I was referring too. I could have been more specific originally haha

  • SmokestackLightning

    @Thanasi said...

    some of you narcissists just keep on keepin on

    Be nice to be able to talk about these things without resorting to insults, even mild ones. There are legit arguments on both sides. The other side of this isn’t stupid, and neither is your side of it.

    Everyone taking to their corner and defending it at all costs and insulting the other side isn’t helping the conversation.

  • dude_abides7

    @Jcb890 said...

    Are you posting in regards to Tony Cincotta’s SiriusXM show this morning?

    Gabe agreed to join the show. Gabe didn’t show up. They called him 2x – 1st time it went to voicemail, 2nd time he picked up and hung up.

    Maybe because he slept through it? He was on this thread commenting in the early morning hours giving his take. I’m sure he’ll be back some point to explain.

  • pep4464

    But seriously at least we don’t have gabey podcasts anymore, I had completely taken dan’s podcast of my list of daily listens because of all the non dfs stuff gabey added….PS. Anyone can use a script. RG has the best one I have found!!! FOR FREE!!! I use it every night. It is a wonderful product that has made it so I can make last second changes right before lock, which has proven fruitful. Thank you RG for making things like this accessible to even a computer illiterate like me!!!

  • Jcb890

    @dude_abides7 said...

    Maybe because he slept through it? He was on this thread commenting in the early morning hours giving his take. I’m sure he’ll be back some point to explain.

    Maybe, I noticed all of his posts also. However, pretty lame to agree to do a show and then not show up, then bitch-click the host of the show when they call you. Give them a heads up before their show you’re not going to make it, hell even make up an excuse, that’s better than a no-show and a bitch-click.

  • hambazaza

    RG Blog Program Manager, 2014 RG Party Beer Pong Champion

    • Blogger of the Month

    • Beer Pong Champion

    @Thanasi said...

    He’s absolutely right and that’s why the “sharks” are pissed. Stop with trying to deflect with the rape crap, anyone with half a brain understood completely what the beard was talking about. I’ve tried for over a year to say that this mass entry BS would be the downfall and some of you narcissists just keep on keepin on. You guys understand that players like MaxD are twisting the system to benefit themselves at the expense of your accounts.

    thanks for being open minded and not assuming you know what my position on any of this is.

  • FrancisBooth

    @CrazyGabey said...

    I wish I would have known that’s all it would take to keep you from wasting time in this thread so I didn’t have to waste time reading your responses.

    Yes because we don’t want to get in the way of you taking a picture of yourself with a whistle in the mouth. How clever.

  • misfit

    I am completely horrified by the amount of mindless Cool aid drinkers commenting and trying to tear someone apart for trying to better an industry that HAS admitted to shady practices and flat out right what amounts to collusion with players by allowing them to play by a different set of rules than the rest of us and denying it.
    They have repeatedly been caught!
    What are you fools completely missing about that? Is knowingly allowing someone to breaks the rules not a form of collusion with that player? Is that not allowing that player an advantage by allowing him to skirt the rules? Who decides what rules can be skirted around? Can we ALL skirt around the rules and try to cheat with no recourse?
    Of course not! But why do you accept it simply because RG says it is ok?
    Why are you tearing Gabbey apart for trying to protect players and better an industry that if left to the Pro’s here at RG would be gone in 2 years because of they way they want it to operate.
    We have been screaming this was coming for years. The ONLY ones who told you it was ok were the ones taking advantage of the free range. Basically the Pro’s here at RG.
    Well, WE WERE RIGHT!! NOT THEM!
    Again, what are you missing about that fact? Because it is a fact!
    Why are you still listening to the ones who told you nothing was wrong for years knowingly lying about what was taking place?
    Why are you constantly attacking those who have proven time after time they are right and yet listen to those we have proven to be liars over and over?
    Dan likes to consider himself the mouthpiece of the industry and instead of doing good through the years and helping us to stop some of this as it occurred it never would have come to this.
    But instead he mixed the cool aid for the Pro’s and the sites and poured it down your throats.
    It has come to a point that what he says about industry matter means less than nothing because he has always been nothing but a site shill. Deny, Deny, Deny, and even when proven wrong sweep it under the rug and call those commenting trolls.
    If you knew as much about the industry as you claim to you had to see all the cheating and such the same as we did and knew what was happening. But still you deny!
    Why should anyone care what he has to say anymore when his opinions are nothing but bought.
    Try laying off the damn cool aid people! Try thinking for yourselves instead of looking for your opinion in those taking advantage of you.
    None of what has occurred has been hard to see. Those who deny it are the truest of trolls.
    I applaud Gabbey for standing up as so many of us others have tried to do over the years only to be beaten down by the cool aid drinkers. Well this time, there are enough of us to effect change no matter how much cool aid you continue to drink.
    Stop backing those who are hurting the industry and start backing those who back you. Because that is what Gabbey is doing. He is not doing this for the fun of it. He is standing up for jerks like you that do not know any better.

  • SmokestackLightning

    @Jcb890 said...

    Maybe, I noticed all of his posts also. However, pretty lame to agree to do a show and then not show up, then bitch-click the host of the show when they call you. Give them a heads up before their show you’re not going to make it, hell even make up an excuse, that’s better than a no-show and a bitch-click.

    Agreed. It’s bad optics, for sure. Can’t be all “Come at me, bro” on twitter and then when they come at you, not pick up your phone.

  • Unico10

    • 584

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #85

      RG Tiered Ranking

    DFS would be more enjoyable, cleaner and a more viable business in the long run if FD and DK weren’t the equivalent to drug addicts for venture capital.

    1 – Take venture capital
    2 – Venture capital requires hyper-growth
    3 – Make huge contests and advertise like crazy
    4 – Attract tens of thousands of $20 depositors
    5 – Cater to special interests (read sharks) that will help fill the contests and pay rake
    6 – Lose a large percentage of $20 depositors
    7 – Show venture capitalists the revenue growth
    8 – Rinse and repeat

    A better regulated ecosystem privy of collusions, would slow growth, but would also reduce significantly new customers acquisition costs and provide a long term viable business.

    Venture capitalists don’t look 10 years down the road, nor they care or should care… all they want is growth, revenue, critical mass for an IPO and cash out.

    Let’s not forget who the driver is

  • tonytone1908

    @CrazyGabey said...

    When management can’t direct you towards contests free of this, it’s bad.

    Gabey I hate to say it but just like they couldn’t and never will be able to keep scripts out entirely, the sharks will still get their way into contests they aren’t supposed to be. Sure they might have to do shady things to do it but if there’s money to be made they’ll find a way. You can always get friends to open accounts and play for you while getting some rakeback from referrals as well.

    People often times will ask for something they think will help them, only to find out nothing has really changed or has in fact gotten worse. This is what I’m afraid of.

  • tonytone1908

    @FunkyColdModella said...

    Heaven forbid a person expects a level playing field or that it’s clear what the odds they’re facing are.

    Why would people expect or think there’s a level playing field to begin with? DFS has been around for awhile, it’s not brand new, some people have more experience at this than others and to think otherwise you’re a fool!

    I just saw something where the odds of winning the powerball are 1 in 292,000,000. Would you play a tournament with 292,000,000 entries? Of course not because those odds are ridiculous. But you’ll play a tournament with 292,000 entries without batting an eye right? Why? Because you know your odds are 1 in 292,000. It’s not confusing. People know what their odds are, if you can’t figure out simple math you most definitely shouldn’t be here.

  • tonytone1908

    @ChrisGimino said...

    Thanks for sharing your motives sir, but I’d also like to ask how – in your head – you foresaw the next steps going.

    A). Sites read article. America reads article. Angry mob. You talk on radio. Things change.

    B) people read article. Politicians read article. Enemies of DFS read article. Load up with additional ammunition to squash an already reeling opponent.

    C) (insert your real answer here)

    My contention is that this is more likely to help the cause of B than A or C. So I’m not questioning your motives so much as saying this CANNOT be the best way to bring change. I Don’t know what would, but not this.

    apparently we’re filled with people who don’t get this.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    @misfit said...

    Dan likes to consider himself the mouthpiece of the industry and instead of doing good through the years and helping us to stop some of this as it occurred it never would have come to this.
    But instead he mixed the cool aid for the Pro’s and the sites and poured it down your throats.
    It has come to a point that what he says about industry matter means less than nothing because he has always been nothing but a site shill. Deny, Deny, Deny, and even when proven wrong sweep it under the rug and call those commenting trolls.
    If you knew as much about the industry as you claim to you had to see all the cheating and such the same as we did and knew what was happening. But still you deny!
    Why should anyone care what he has to say anymore when his opinions are nothing but bought.

    I don’t listen to the podcast much, but the criticism of Dan is unfair. You have to realize that he’s paid to be positive and promote DFS. Unless there’s irrefutable evidence to the contrary, it’s not his job to look under every rug.

    Also, I wouldn’t be so quick to put the hero tag on someone that considers himself a ‘DFS Traitor’ and has the balls to profile himself with a whistle. That type of narcissism is much more appalling.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Everyone who is good at DFS will win theirs eventually….everyone who is not, will lose all of their money.

    Why is there even a discussion about how fair or unfair anything is? At the end of the day, you can set 1 lineup that’s well researched and will beat 90 out of 100 lineups from a pro who multi-entered. The pro will still cash higher than your 1 lineup, but while his 100 lineups that cost $2500 to make only earn him $3000 lets say, your one lineup that cost $25 makes you $200…..simply because most of HIS lineups didn’t do well, but he did have a couple that finished pretty well. yet you technically had a better day ROI wise because you made 1 great lineup. So the issue isn’t that there are pros or pros multi-enter too much, or they have some edge. The issue is, YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO SACRIFICE THE MONEY THAT THE PROS ARE.

    You could have taken your great $25 lineup, and done 20 variations of it, and you could have had them all cash, maybe with one taking 20K for 1st place (talking about the Slam here). If you want the reward, then take the risk – otherwise, don’t complain about those who DO take the risk day in and day out.

    And anyone who puts out H2H’s for anyone to scoop up, is just doing it wrong – the pros all sit there waiting to scoop H2H’s up….against what’s peoples real complaint? Don’t put out H2H’s, it’s a losing proposition anyway

  • winsome

    @ChrisGimino said...

    Thanks for sharing your motives sir, but I’d also like to ask how – in your head – you foresaw the next steps going.

    A). Sites read article. America reads article. Angry mob. You talk on radio. Things change.

    B) people read article. Politicians read article. Enemies of DFS read article. Load up with additional ammunition to squash an already reeling opponent.

    C) (insert your real answer here)

    My contention is that this is more likely to help the cause of B than A or C. So I’m not questioning your motives so much as saying this CANNOT be the best way to bring change. I Don’t know what would, but not this.

    The future of DFS has already been decided. The votes have either been paid for or not. The only ones who are waiting for the results are us.

  • winsome

    @Ryazan said...

    Don’t put out H2H’s

    All due respect as I tend to agree with most of your post but this is a huge issue from a consumer protection aspect.

    “Come win a shipload of money,……. just don’t post any H2H as you’ll lose your shirt”.

    One of the biggest complaints about FD for years has been the absence of a match up blocker. We all know why they haven’t implemented one and now they’re gonna have to answer for it.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @winsome said...

    All due respect as I tend to agree with most of your post but this is a huge issue from a consumer protection aspect.

    “Come win a shipload of money,……. just don’t post any H2H as you’ll lose your shirt”.

    One of the biggest complaints about FD for years has been the absence of a match up blocker. We all know why they haven’t implemented one and now they’re gonna have to answer for it.

    take other people’s H2H’s, dont post your own…..what is the advantage of posting H2Hs? anyone who wants to play against their friends, can always send a private invite.

  • dude_abides7

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Gabey I hate to say it but just like they couldn’t and never will be able to keep scripts out entirely, the sharks will still get their way into contests they aren’t supposed to be. Sure they might have to do shady things to do it but if there’s money to be made they’ll find a way. You can always get friends to open accounts and play for you while getting some rakeback from referrals as well.

    People often times will ask for something they think will help them, only to find out nothing has really changed or has in fact gotten worse. This is what I’m afraid of.

    Tony, I hear ya man and your fears are my fears, but I can’t shake the feeling that if the if the industry wanted to stop some of these things…they would have.

    Once again, it wasn’t a matter (and I am speaking directly of scripting when it was prohibited) that the sites said…“yes, this is going on and we are not happy about it and we have all hands on deck trying to devise a solution to remedy this issue.” They didn’t get out ahead of it and this goes beyond inattentiveness or ignorance. Instead, it was complete denial by the sites that there was an issue in the first place and those that claimed there was wrong doing were all ‘tin foil hat’ theorists. They said everything is fine…“trust us”. Some of us did (I did)…at first.

    Then the truth came out and once again instead of admitting what happened they simply changed their TOS to support what THEY SAID was never occurring in the first place!!!! Holy shit….take all the other issues and non-issues and put them aside and look just at THIS. This alone screams foul play and the evidence is pretty damning. This alone could be the reason the industry faces regulation. Not Ethan Haskell, not any of this other media spun bullshit. THIS ISSUE, this cry for transparency didn’t come from NYT or from noobs that though they could deposit money and immediately be successful. It came from the core user, the people on this site that play EVERY DAY and know the issues and aren’t fooled by slanted industry articles.

    It was ignored, it is still being ignored. To this day there are multiple accounts of mass volume players auto-scooping noobs. The sites, if they respond at all (which is increasingly unlikely) temporarily ban violators for hours before reinstating them. A joke.

    Now…can we really get mad when someone jumps from this to using words like “collusion”?

    Are we really surprised that the sites now find themselves in hot water?

    Is Gabey really the bad guy when in reality he was one of the few RG voices that was screaming to the sites to do something about this months ago, BEFORE the national spotlight was focused on DFS and the possible issues within?

    Is it not obvious why an industry supporter/apologist who does not benefit from fair change regulation would create a thread try to divert focus from real issues by pointing at what he claims to see as an improper usage of the word “rape”?

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