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  • Mphst18

    So stlcardinals84 who posts these videos has Henrik Stenson as his top pick.

    Surprisingly enough when you look at his 100 entries in the $20 tournament you know how many of his 100 lineups have Henrik, 0!!!

    It is one thing to say he’s my top pick but he’s too expensive to build a team around for GPPS so cash only, it’s a whole different thing to tout him to drive ownership that way and then not play him at all in your 100 gpp lineups.

    His second, third and fourth picks while not a huge difference are lower owned then other he selected that could be had at the same price or lower price range (100-200 lower to keep it an apples to apples comparison)

    Forget that Henrik is doing well, the question becomes should these people providing picks be accountable to at least have their lineups resemble what they are touting as opposed to giving off the impression that they are driving ownership to others so they can select others at lower ownership percentages.

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  • xdan3220

    That is interesting, I don’t know how much of the experts advice we should ever fully take, whenever I read any of the stuff I have to remember that I’m direct competition to them in most contests. I didn’t watch the videos but it would seem odd if Henrik was being touted as his top pick that he’d have exposure to him. Were the videos discussing GPP vs. Cash? Someone could definitely be your top cash game play but not really of any interest in a GPP so that would help to explain what seems to not make a lot of sense.

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  • Mphst18

    Yes the direct competition is where underlying question comes in around maniputIng ownership away from picks you plan on taking.

    He is coming off wining 125k from the pga champ so he knows people will take his advice but he does a video every week touting 4 golfers and does not distinguish between gpp/cash.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • JMToWin

    • x2

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    FWIW, there are a lot of times in MLB when I don’t come anywhere close to rostering what I feel is the top point-per-dollar play. Those who read my articles each day understand this, because I break down the thinking behind my research and my likely strategy for that day. The optics are a bit tougher, however, when someone posting rankings does not also have the benefit of being able to dig deeply into the “why” for the public. A lot of times, the guy you expect to be the top point-per-dollar play is still a guy worth fading in tournaments if you feel ownership will be too high, and if you feel there is a chance (even a slim chance) he could have a bad outing.

    It’s a difficult balance, of course, because readers would be livid if our Rankers only ranked off-the-wall plays that are not, by the numbers, the top point-per-dollar plays. This is why it’s really great to read articles or listen to thoughts beyond just the rankings, I guess; there is so much more to DFS than just identifying the top point-per-dollar plays and playing those guys. But the best way to yield value through our rankings is definitely by ranking who we feel are likeliest to be the top point-per-dollar plays.

    We are definitely, always, open to thoughts on how we can improve our product as a whole – so any thoughts are welcome! We’re always looking to improve, for sure.

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  • xdan3220

    It’s a delicate balance for sure. I think there are probably lots of DFS players that read you guys and are used to years of reading people like Matthew Berry or other fantasy “experts” who you don’t actually compete against. The readers take what you guys write seriously sometimes without realizing that for them to win a GPP also means you guys who probably have lineups in there have to lose.

    As long as every contributor that is putting out material is giving their honest opinion on players I don’t think we can expect anything else, the optics of touting someone as the top option and then having 0 exposure aren’t good. If you intend to highly recommend someone that you aren’t going to use I do think there should be at least a little discussion as to reasons you may want to avoid them. I don’t expect every play that you guys consider to be a good one to end up in everything you write but anyone you do highlight or talk about there should be a complete picture

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  • Mphst18

    @xdan3220 said...

    As long as every contributor that is putting out material is giving their honest opinion on players I don’t think we can expect anything else, the optics of touting someone as the top option and then having 0 exposure aren’t good. If you intend to highly recommend someone that you aren’t going to use I do think there should be at least a little discussion as to reasons you may want to avoid them. I don’t expect every play that you guys consider to be a good one to end up in everything you write but anyone you do highlight or talk about there should be a complete picture

    Well said. To have 100 lineups and no exposure to your top play, very bad optics.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • GhostaVeli8701

    For the most part he records those videos early in the week and usually gives the plays he feels will benefit in your “lineup building”. Now the keyword there is YOUR. I say this because on a monday night YOUR lineups may look a certain way, your confidence in player X may be sky high but come Wednesday night 11:38pm you may have seen or heard some things to sway your opinion of player X and that leads you to lineup tweaking so on & so forth.

    His 0% exposure to Stenson could very well be a result lineup tweaking, overthinking, high ownership fading, etc but it’s clearly just that as i’m sure a guy who just murdered a gpp a few weeks ago for over 100k is NOT EXEMPT from those reasons listed above.

  • Mphst18

    @GhostaVeli8701 said...

    For the most part he records those videos early in the week and usually gives the plays he feels will benefit in your “lineup building”. Now the keyword there is YOUR. I say this because on a monday night YOUR lineups may look a certain way, your confidence in player X may be sky high but come Wednesday night 11:38pm you may have seen or heard some things to sway your opinion of player X and that leads you to lineup tweaking so on & so forth.

    His 0% exposure to Stenson could very well be a result lineup tweaking, overthinking, high ownership fading, etc but it’s clearly just that as i’m sure a guy who just murdered a gpp a few weeks ago for over 100k is NOT EXEMPT from those reasons listed above.

    Hence the comment box below the video where he can post hey I know he’s my top pick but I’m fading him because XYZ on any day after the video is posted.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    @Mphst18 said...

    So stlcardinals84 who posts these videos has Henrik Stenson as his top pick.

    Surprisingly enough when you look at his 100 entries in the $20 tournament you know how many of his 100 lineups have Henrik, 0!!!

    It is one thing to say he’s my top pick but he’s too expensive to build a team around for GPPS so cash only, it’s a whole different thing to tout him to drive ownership that way and then not play him at all in your 100 gpp lineups.

    His second, third and fourth picks while not a huge difference are lower owned then other he selected that could be had at the same price or lower price range (100-200 lower to keep it an apples to apples comparison)

    Forget that Henrik is doing well, the question becomes should these people providing picks be accountable to at least have their lineups resemble what they are touting as opposed to giving off the impression that they are driving ownership to others so they can select others at lower ownership percentages.

    I realize it’s a hot button issue, but let’s look at it from a different perspective. With all due respect to STLcards, he isn’t the only tout/expert in dfs, right? If you can’t trust STL or anyone else, there are others out there. Find someone you do trust. Each writer is ultimately responsible for creating their own following. Sure, it helps to have a platform like RG, but loyalty can be fleeting if trust is an issue.

    FWIW, I agree that it’s definitely a bad look. However, it’s not fair to expect writers to only stick to guys that they’ve mentioned. Things change. And even when they don’t, sometimes a gut feel or two dictates changes.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    @JMToWin said...

    It’s a difficult balance, of course, because readers would be livid if our Rankers only ranked off-the-wall plays that are not, by the numbers, the top point-per-dollar plays.

    First off, I just want to commend JM. I’ve read a few of JM’s mlb articles and they are certainly top notch. Quality information combined with entertaining commentary. RG is well served to have such a talent, but I’m sure they already realize it.

    If expert ‘A’ was to have off the wall plays AND played those same guys, I think that person would garner a lot of respect. Assuming, of course, that those plays consistently perform well.

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  • Mphst18

    @kaetorade said...

    I realize it’s a hot button issue, but let’s look at it from a different perspective. With all due respect to STLcards, he isn’t the only tout/expert in dfs, right? If you can’t trust STL or anyone else, there are others out there. Find someone you do trust. Each writer is ultimately responsible for creating their own following. Sure, it helps to have a platform like RG, but loyalty can be fleeting if trust is an issue.

    FWIW, I agree that it’s definitely a bad look. However, it’s not fair to expect writers to only stick to guys that they’ve mentioned. Things change. And even when they don’t, sometimes a gut feel or two dictates changes.

    Agree and have no issue with playing many different guys but just think you shouldn’t have 0 out of 100 for your top guy and have lower ownership for the other three picks then guys in the same price range who you have higher exposure to but didn’t mention.

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  • titanhawks

    I don’t have any problem with it. Could be fading chalk or had salary issues trying to make LU’s.

    Bolton does that sometimes in the Avis Expert picks as he picks a winner without him on his team but that is due to the three start rule over there.

    I like watching STL’s picks but they aren’t the be all and end all for me but I like when he picks who I already did; kinda verifies my selections :)

  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 276

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    I am not going to respond directly to mphst18, because I feel like he contributes absolutely nothing to the community other than negative nelly garbage, but I will respond in general to his premise.

    Check the history of my picks, and my history of playing them. Almost EVERY SINGLE week, I end up playing all four golfers that I recommend. This week, I played three of them. Blasphemy! How dare I leave one of them off, a guy who just happens to be the best player on the planet right now.

    I faded Stenson because he had the dead last tee time on Thursday, and the wind was scheduled to pick up later on Thursday (check Roth’s weather forecast). Tee times were not announced when I recorded the video. Weather was not reliable when I recorded the video.

    So, I didn’t play Stenson… and guess what, it’s not working out. As far as the other three, I had all my players at 30% in the lineup builder and that’s around where they ended up. If I ended up slightly underweight on the three from the video, it was simply because that’s what spit out and I didn’t have much time to tweak them. I only entered the 100 lineups because of the overlay.

    Seriously, some people need to get a freaking grip instead of grasping at straws. Good night.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 276

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    If you want more insight into my lineup building process, what I always do for golf is pick a core of 20 or so players that I like. I then play them in equal shares. I never intend to go “over-weight” or “under-weight” on anyone. If I am playing them, I am playing them.

    My four picks for the PGA Championship two weeks ago?

    McIlroy (I owned at 24%)
    Woodland (I owned at 24%)
    Zach Johnson (I owned at 22%)
    Sullivan (I owned at 26%)

    None of the players I rostered that week was on more than 26% or less than 22% of my lineups.

    PROOF OF OWNERSHIP: http://www.thefantasyfanatics.com/dfs/pga/ownership.cfm?viewContest=149

    VIDEO LINK: https://rotogrinders.com/articles/daily-fantasy-foursome-pga-championship-1370224

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  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 276

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    Last week at the Travelers: the four picks in my video?

    Bubba Watson (I owned at 28%)
    Keegan Bradley (I owned at 28%)
    Russell Knox (I owned at 24%)
    Lucas Glover – I owned at 0% because he withdrew 40 minutes before his opening tee time. It was 5:20 AM on Thursday morning. What did I do? I posted an update on Twitter to alert people to the fact.

    By the way, Knox was cheap and won the tournament.

    None of the golfers I rostered this week was over 32% owned, and only a handful were under 20% because I had to scramble when Glover withdrew.

    PROOF OF TWEET – https://twitter.com/stlcardinals84/status/761152447867871232

    PROOF OF OWNERSHIP – http://www.thefantasyfanatics.com/dfs/pga/ownership.cfm?viewContest=159

    VIDEO – https://rotogrinders.com/articles/daily-fantasy-foursome-travelers-championship-1378725

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 276

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    RBC Canadian Open, you ask?

    Day – I had 28%
    Finau – I had 24%
    Hearn – I had 28%
    List – I had 28%

    None of the players I rostered were over…. 28%.

    PROOF OF OWNERSHIP: http://www.thefantasyfanatics.com/dfs/pga/ownership.cfm?viewContest=142

    VIDEO – https://rotogrinders.com/articles/daily-fantasy-foursome-rbc-canadian-open-1363650

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  • jmbwngfn

    4x FSWA Writer Nominee, RG Admin

    • 2011 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • walkoff9

    Well this was unexpected. When I clicked on this thread i expected it to be praising the guy since 3 of the 4 picks are killing it, and reed is right there in striking distance.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • Mphst18

    @stlcardinals84 said...

    I am not going to respond directly to mphst18, because I feel like he contributes absolutely nothing to the community other than negative nelly garbage, but I will respond in general to his premise.

    Check the history of my picks, and my history of playing them. Almost EVERY SINGLE week, I end up playing all four golfers that I recommend. This week, I played three of them. Blasphemy! How dare I leave one of them off, a guy who just happens to be the best player on the planet right now.

    I faded Stenson because he had the dead last tee time on Thursday, and the wind was scheduled to pick up later on Thursday (check Roth’s weather forecast). Tee times were not announced when I recorded the video. Weather was not reliable when I recorded the video.

    So, I didn’t play Stenson… and guess what, it’s not working out. As far as the other three, I had all my players at 30% in the lineup builder and that’s around where they ended up. If I ended up slightly underweight on the three from the video, it was simply because that’s what spit out and I didn’t have much time to tweak them. I only entered the 100 lineups because of the overlay.

    Seriously, some people need to get a freaking grip instead of grasping at straws. Good night.

    Funny Thomas Pieters was in the same tee time as HS and you had no problem using him, looks like wind didn’t matter there.

    Funny bourdy is in your picks teed off second to last was in your picks but ended up in your lineups.

    Funny NC was in your picks and ended up in your lineups and was in the latter tee times.

    Save yourself the hypocrisy as well of trying to state they are better wind players than HS.

    I don’t care if you like my methods or viewpoints but iIMO if you are selling advice (I assume you are compensated for your videos) your lineups should resemble what is coming out of your mouth instead of trying to manipulate ownership.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 276

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    @Mphst18 said...

    Funny Thomas Pieters was in the same tee time as HS and you had no problem using him, looks like wind didn’t matter there.

    Funny bourdy is in your picks teed off second to last was in your picks but ended up in your lineups.

    Funny NC was in your picks and ended up in your lineups and was in the latter tee times.

    Save yourself the hypocrisy as well of trying to state they are better wind players than HS.

    I don’t care if you like my methods or viewpoints but iIMO if you are selling advice (I assume you are compensated for your videos) your lineups should resemble what is coming out of your mouth instead of trying to manipulate ownership.

    I told you I created these lineups in five minutes chasing overlay. I wasn’t going to play Olympic golf because I am attending the John Deere Classic.

    Care to comment on the other weeks, where I have used EVERY GUY I recommended? I can go back two years and get you a percentage of the guys that I have played from my videos. It’s likely greater than 90%.

    I’m not trying to pull any crap on anyone. I’m a better person than that.

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  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Mphst18 said...

    Funny Thomas Pieters was in the same tee time as HS and you had no problem using him, looks like wind didn’t matter there.

    Funny bourdy is in your picks teed off second to last was in your picks but ended up in your lineups.

    Funny NC was in your picks and ended up in your lineups and was in the latter tee times.

    Save yourself the hypocrisy as well of trying to state they are better wind players than HS.

    I don’t care if you like my methods or viewpoints but iIMO if you are selling advice (I assume you are compensated for your videos) your lineups should resemble what is coming out of your mouth instead of trying to manipulate ownership.

    Basically you are upset because Stlcardinals called you out in a different thread, so in turn you are now starting your own little witch hunt against him.

    It’s time to give up on this one Mphst, you are making yourself look pathetic with this reach.

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  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 276

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    Let’s go back one week further – we’re a month back now… The Open Championship.

    My four picks in the video:

    Adam Scott – I owned at 26.6% (my highest percentage of the week)
    Sergio Garcia – I owned at 23.3%
    Charl Schwartzel – I owned at 20%
    Tyrrell Hatton – I owned at 20%

    PROOF OF OWNERSHIP: http://www.thefantasyfanatics.com/dfs/pga/ownership.cfm?viewContest=132

    VIDEO: https://rotogrinders.com/articles/daily-fantasy-foursome-the-open-1358278

    I also just happened to win $125,000 – using two of these four picks on a winning Thunderdome roster, in which I only had one entry.

    PROOF: https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/25513825?uc=434153037

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 276

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    How about five weeks ago, for a Euro Tour event! The GPPs were small so I used fewer players, and the percentages are a bit skewed because I only had eight lineups.

    Grace – I owned at 37.5%
    Knox – I owned at 25%
    Kjeldsen – I owned at 37.5%
    Warren – I owned at 25%

    PROOF OF OWNERSHIP: http://www.thefantasyfanatics.com/dfs/pga/ownership.cfm?viewContest=128

    VIDEO: https://rotogrinders.com/articles/daily-fantasy-foursome-scottish-open-1353541

    I have now gone back 5 weeks with 100% ownership of the players in my videos, on the weeks where I carefully crafted teams, yet you bash me for one pick on a week where I made my lineups in five minutes.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • Mphst18

    Thankfully others feel that is usefull for them to consider and understand the optics of you touting a top pic and not playing him in one lineup out of 100 ( based on factors of tee times that were known ahead of time as well as presumed weather conditions known ahead of time) while still playing others who had the same tee times as HS and the same weather conditions of HS.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 276

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    @Mphst18 said...

    Thankfully others feel that is usefull for them to consider and understand the optics of you touting a top pic and not playing him in one lineup out of 100 ( based on factors of tee times that were known ahead of time as well as presumed weather conditions known ahead of time) while still playing others who had the same tee times as HS and the same weather conditions of HS.

    It’s one pick out of 24 from the last six weeks. That’s a 96% rate of me playing my picks.

    Those “others” will “understand” when they see my responses and proof from the last two months. You, on the other hand, continue clinging to your one hope to use as a vendetta against me.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • einars

    @Mphst18 said...

    So stlcardinals84 who posts these videos has Henrik Stenson as his top pick.

    Surprisingly enough when you look at his 100 entries in the $20 tournament you know how many of his 100 lineups have Henrik, 0!!!

    It is one thing to say he’s my top pick but he’s too expensive to build a team around for GPPS so cash only, it’s a whole different thing to tout him to drive ownership that way and then not play him at all in your 100 gpp lineups.

    His second, third and fourth picks while not a huge difference are lower owned then other he selected that could be had at the same price or lower price range (100-200 lower to keep it an apples to apples comparison)

    Forget that Henrik is doing well, the question becomes should these people providing picks be accountable to at least have their lineups resemble what they are touting as opposed to giving off the impression that they are driving ownership to others so they can select others at lower ownership percentages.

    have you ever made a post where you arnt bitshing and whining about something?

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
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