PGA FORUM

Comments

  • Mphst18

    DAUT44 and MIR84 already once caught colluding and disqualified from the kings cup by DK but still allowed to play on the site are back at it again colluding to circumvent the max entries for the millionaire maker so they have 300 entries.

    Each entered the max 150 lineups (MIR used 20 players) (DAUT used 22 players).

    The core 20 players used are identical with Reed (12% of DAUT lineups) and Finau (3.3% of DAUT lineups) as the 2 players DAUT used the MIR didnt.

    Both have 47%+ usage in lineups of main core of Kuchar, McIlroy, Molinari, Johnson, and Garcia.

    The Fact they these two who are known to work together, have been caught colluding before, have the same 20 players with near identical ownership %s yet have no lineups that overlap shows clearly they are doing this to have 300 entries (not the 150 limit).

    I understand these two are VIP players and dk generates a lot of revenue from them but how long will they allow their consumers to be unprotected and the integrity of their contests to be doubted.

  • xdan3220

    @bolu said...

    Each person gains a very small advantage by knowing 150 of the other lineups in the tourney don’t match any of their lineups

    And I think if you make the precedent that just knowing someone elses lineup constitutes collusion you have a slippery slope, if my buddy tells me his lineup before a contest I then know my lineup doesn’t match a different lineup in the GPP that I don’t have exposure to. I don’t think that alone can be enough.

  • Mirage9

    looks like they are colluding to give their money away this week, who cares if they are sharing lineups anyways? Me and one of my friends enter lineups in all different kinds of sports, split percentages of our teams, and make sure we do not have any duplicates for the most part. How exactly do people think should this be policed anyways? I think DFS players in general (not all of you) are the biggest group of whiners I’ve ever heard. If you do not like how Draftkings and FanDuel operate then do not play. It’s as simple as that.

  • shamrock77s

    @xdan3220 said...

    But only against one other person, and that doesn’t mean that they don’t match with anyone else. Again it’s all opinion at that point, I don’t think the simple sharing of research/lineups alone constitutes collusion, it may but DK doesn’t define it, without profit sharing on lineups going over the entry limit I don’t consider it collusion at this point.

    You don’t think that 2 people, who pool their entries and basically play 2X the amount of lineups that anyone else who max entered could, share any advantage, and that the resulting 300 total entries with the same core and no overlap does not constitute collusion?

  • xdan3220

    @shamrock77s said...

    You don’t think that 2 people, who pool their entries and basically play 2X the amount of lineups that anyone else who max entered could, share any advantage, and that the resulting 300 total entries with the same core and no overlap does not constitute collusion?

    Unless they are sharing profits than no I don’t. Otherwise they each only have exposure to 150 lineups and have no advantage over the field.

  • jah2323

    The chances they aren’t/wouldn’t share profits in the milly maker is < 0. It’s completely ridiculous to think otherwise. Same goes for 2 weeks ago.

  • smutpeddlers

    • 868

      RG Overall Ranking

    We have been down this road before ………

  • Mphst18

    David sells lineups as well. You put everything together and there is no doubt they broke the TOS in multiple ways and on multiple occasions regardless of if you think they do or don’t share profits.

  • RangerC

    @Mirage9 said...

    Me and one of my friends enter lineups in all different kinds of sports, split percentages of our teams, and make sure we do not have any duplicates for the most part.

    Thanks for admitting you collude!

    BTW, how would this sound in online poker:

    “My friend and I sit at the same tables, share a bankroll, and occasionally we text each other what cards we have. Doesn’t matter because no one can catch us.”

    We already had a huge hit from DA’s (thanks, Schniederman) over non-existent insider trading that nearly killed DFS, so lets ignore collusion that skirts NYS DFS regulations. Sounds like a good plan for long term survival.

  • Chuky

    @Mirage9 said...

    looks like they are colluding to give their money away this week, who cares if they are sharing lineups anyways? Me and one of my friends enter lineups in all different kinds of sports, split percentages of our teams, and make sure we do not have any duplicates for the most part. How exactly do people think should this be policed anyways? I think DFS players in general (not all of you) are the biggest group of whiners I’ve ever heard. If you do not like how Draftkings and FanDuel operate then do not play. It’s as simple as that.

    Another one with don’t play it if u don’t like it nonsense. Ppl with your mentality is the reason I’m glad regulation is finally here. Wild Wild West mentality. Bet u had no problems with employees playing either. Imagine if wall street wasn’t regulated. Ppl are not whining. They are pointing out activities going on against rules.

  • petteytheft89

    • 8

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #8

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2019 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    What makes you think that is MIR outside of the name? I highly doubt that is him. Anyone could make that account.

  • Unico10

    • 493

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @Mirage9 said...

    looks like they are colluding to give their money away this week, who cares if they are sharing lineups anyways? Me and one of my friends enter lineups in all different kinds of sports, split percentages of our teams, and make sure we do not have any duplicates for the most part. How exactly do people think should this be policed anyways? I think DFS players in general (not all of you) are the biggest group of whiners I’ve ever heard. If you do not like how Draftkings and FanDuel operate then do not play. It’s as simple as that.

    DFS players can be categorized in many segments, but we can roughly divide us in two large categories:
    1 – Those one that come from poker and other gambling endeavors, not even necessarily sports fans
    2 – Sports fans

    For most of the ones that are sport fans, rules are kind of important.
    For others… not so much.

    Eventually DK and FD need to make a choice.

    Cater to the sports fans and the leagues and eventually get back in bed with ESPN etc…. or be dominated by a small group of individuals that are able to look on the dictionary the definition of “ethics” or “collusion”, but that find either ethics or collusion a nuisance.

    You’re right. Just not play. Simple.
    In the past two PGA MM I played 20 lineups and in both I entered Sunday in the top 100… with a “shot”…. nevertheless I only entered 10 in this one due to the lack of response from DK regarding the collusion in the last MM

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Mirage9 said...

    Me and one of my friends enter lineups in all different kinds of sports, split percentages of our teams, and make sure we do not have any duplicates for the most part. How exactly do people think should this be policed anyways?

    Probably a crazy idea, but I’d start by suspending the accounts of those who admit to collusion/syndicate play.

  • jah2323

    @Unico10 said...

    Cater to the sports fans and the leagues and eventually get back in bed with ESPN etc…. or be dominated by a small group of individuals that are able to look on the dictionary the definition of “ethics” or “collusion”, but that find either ethics or collusion a nuisance.

    this

  • jimmyrad

    @Unico10 said...

    DFS players can be categorized in many segments, but we can roughly divide us in two large categories:
    1 – Those one that come from poker and other gambling endeavors, not even necessarily sports fans
    2 – Sports fans

    For most of the ones that are sport fans, rules are kind of important.
    For others… not so much.

    Could you possibly paint with a broader brush? It’s not sinking in because you sports fans (lol) are too nuanced.

  • th3goat84

    What do you guys think about for the 2nd week in a row 2 usernames (possibly 1 guy) are entering max LUs with 0% overlap. I don’t see how anyone here can be so naive and think, “it’s no big deal, DK wouldn’t allow such a thing.” Plus, for all we know it’s Anonymous DK employees/Sponsored DK “Pros”.

    The counter argument of, “Well, then don’t play DK or go somewhere else” is invalid, because it’s not about that. It’s about morality, what is right/fair and what is wrong/unfair. Money is important, and if anyone is taking advantage that is cheating.

    This might be a bad analogy, but those people complaining about the Church, specifically Priests who take advantage of kids, we just gonna say “Suck it up, that’s life, go to another church.” NO! It’s about battling for what is right. Currently Draftkings is not regulated, and any type of cheating is wrong. We must stop this.

  • desertdanny

    @Mphst18 said...

    Both have 47%+ usage in lineups of main core of Kuchar, McIlroy, Molinari, Johnson, and Garcia.

    Thank the lord for collusion…look at all the grenades in that core.

  • jah2323

    @th3goat84 said...

    What do you guys think about for the 2nd week in a row 2 usernames (possibly 1 guy) are entering max LUs with 0% overlap. I don’t see how anyone here can be so naive and think, “it’s no big deal, DK wouldn’t allow such a thing.” Plus, for all we know it’s Anonymous DK employees/Sponsored DK “Pros”.

    The counter argument of, “Well, then don’t play DK or go somewhere else” is invalid, because it’s not about that. It’s about morality, what is right/fair and what is wrong/unfair. Money is important, and if anyone is taking advantage that is cheating.

    This might be a bad analogy, but those people complaining about the Church, specifically Priests who take advantage of kids, we just gonna say “Suck it up, that’s life, go to another church.” NO! It’s about battling for what is right. Currently Draftkings is not regulated, and any type of cheating is wrong. We must stop this.

    It’s a complete joke if you ask me, this type of behavior is what will put dfs in the same place as US online poker. This small section of unethical people will ruin it for everyone while chasing every last $ available to them. Why I quit playing cash games late last year, tired of seeing the same lineups everywhere from the so called pros.

  • Logan7777

    @th3goat84 said...

    What do you guys think about for the 2nd week in a row 2 usernames (possibly 1 guy) are entering max LUs with 0% overlap. I don’t see how anyone here can be so naive and think, “it’s no big deal, DK wouldn’t allow such a thing.” Plus, for all we know it’s Anonymous DK employees/Sponsored DK “Pros”.

    The counter argument of, “Well, then don’t play DK or go somewhere else” is invalid, because it’s not about that. It’s about morality, what is right/fair and what is wrong/unfair. Money is important, and if anyone is taking advantage that is cheating.

    This might be a bad analogy, but those people complaining about the Church, specifically Priests who take advantage of kids, we just gonna say “Suck it up, that’s life, go to another church.” NO! It’s about battling for what is right. Currently Draftkings is not regulated, and any type of cheating is wrong. We must stop this.

    I heard Feherty’s voice when I read this.

  • bigcrip

    people complaining about this are not smart

    they are not doing anything unfair. they are using seperate accounts to enter lineups. they are not gaining any extra edge on the field. they are not colluding to win

  • cinthree

    @bolu said...

    You beat me to it, but I wouldn’t really call Person B the victim in your example because that player may not have come up with the lineup on his own.

    I mean, it’s a hypothetical, but I imagine the argument would be they did equal amounts of research/work before hand, and then came to a conclusion as to the parameters for their optimizer (65% Golfer A, 80% Golfer B, etc.), and then ran the optimizer for 300 lineups, and then just distributed them randomly, 150 for Player A and 150 for Player B.

  • jah2323

    @bigcrip said...

    people complaining about this are not smart

    they are not doing anything unfair. they are using seperate accounts to enter lineups. they are not gaining any extra edge on the field. they are not colluding to win

    now that’s funny

  • Hogwired

    @th3goat84 said...

    What do you guys think about for the 2nd week in a row 2 usernames (possibly 1 guy) are entering max LUs with 0% overlap. I don’t see how anyone here can be so naive and think, “it’s no big deal, DK wouldn’t allow such a thing.” Plus, for all we know it’s Anonymous DK employees/Sponsored DK “Pros”.

    The counter argument of, “Well, then don’t play DK or go somewhere else” is invalid, because it’s not about that. It’s about morality, what is right/fair and what is wrong/unfair. Money is important, and if anyone is taking advantage that is cheating.

    This might be a bad analogy, but those people complaining about the Church, specifically Priests who take advantage of kids, we just gonna say “Suck it up, that’s life, go to another church.” NO! It’s about battling for what is right. Currently Draftkings is not regulated, and any type of cheating is wrong. We must stop this.

    So, what are we going to do about this?

  • bigcrip

    @jah2323 said...

    now that’s funny

    learn what the definitino of COLLUDE is and then youll see they arent violating TOS

  • Unico10

    • 493

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @bigcrip said...

    learn what the definitino of COLLUDE is and then youll see they arent violating TOS

    Simple Definition of collusion
    Secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

    1) Secret? Yes, covered by usernames
    2) Cooperation? You bet
    3) Illegal? Yes, violating entry limit in contest
    4) In order to cheat and deceive? Yes. All the other participants that didn’t violate the entry limit

  • Mphst18

    Collude: to work with others secretly especially in order to do something illegal or dishonest

    Circumvent: overcome (a problem or difficulty), typically in a clever and surreptitious way

    Used in a sentence:

    The two individuals colluded to enter 300 unique lineups amongst themselves using similar players and ownership percentages to circumvent the entry limit.

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