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  • Mphst18

    DAUT44 and MIR84 already once caught colluding and disqualified from the kings cup by DK but still allowed to play on the site are back at it again colluding to circumvent the max entries for the millionaire maker so they have 300 entries.

    Each entered the max 150 lineups (MIR used 20 players) (DAUT used 22 players).

    The core 20 players used are identical with Reed (12% of DAUT lineups) and Finau (3.3% of DAUT lineups) as the 2 players DAUT used the MIR didnt.

    Both have 47%+ usage in lineups of main core of Kuchar, McIlroy, Molinari, Johnson, and Garcia.

    The Fact they these two who are known to work together, have been caught colluding before, have the same 20 players with near identical ownership %s yet have no lineups that overlap shows clearly they are doing this to have 300 entries (not the 150 limit).

    I understand these two are VIP players and dk generates a lot of revenue from them but how long will they allow their consumers to be unprotected and the integrity of their contests to be doubted.

  • 1greatbuyz

    • x3

      2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

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    Yep, me or one of my other 149 cousins usually take those down.

  • Mphst18

    @tonytone1908 said...

    See, the problem is, you’re looking for everything to be written out to you, in plain english, in black and white, and that is not the case here, nor will it ever be. Things like this are written in the way they are for a reason. I understand it, I get it, you may not.

    But back to the topic of entry limits and people colluding. It is impossible to police or determine what people are doing. It may seem obvious to you but it’s just impossible to prove or stop. You open up a whole bunch of cans of worms and it really has no effect on how well you do at all.

    You and just have different views which I’m ok with. Best of luck to you.

  • tonytone1908

    @sjs1890 said...

    Its not about winning or losing lol. It’s about following the rules DK agreed upon, not me or you or anyone else, DK made the rules. For example if theres a small group of people pooling together, that means they are also working on a strategy together where if they worked by themselves they most likely wouldn’t have ended up with the same research. Which that can cause an honest person playing for entertainment which is what DFS was designed for a lesser cash or maybe not even cash at all.

    What would be the difference between me and 4 friends working together to put 5 lineups, 1 each, into a contest? Would that be ok with you? Because it seems like the only problem for people to me is that they max entered. But if you think this sort of thing only happens with pro’s and max entering you’re sorely mistaken.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    Why are entry limits more than 50 in the first place lets ask that question??? Theres very good statistics from thefantasyfanatics.com that show in order to have big gpps we do NOT need 150 entry limit so why do we have them? Majority of gpps are filled by the people entering 50 or less. Also why are GPPs so top heavy?? Who asked for that? This only caters even more to the high volume players because since big gpps are boom or bust on DK, it gives sharks incentive to enter as many teams as possible to try and hit that ridiculously top heavy prize. Cutting entry limits to 50 and balancing the pay structure I think would help a lot.

  • Shipmymoney

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    @Mphst18 said...

    Look at the order the first 4 were all completed before the 5th and don’t quite see what your saying in the listed Rules for the contest but hey let’s just play by whatever rules you say and not the ones in an enforceable agreement.

    Yum might want to read the T&C link under maximum entries rather than just rattling off an unwritten rule.

    Once a Player has accumulated six (6) entries to the FBWC Contest, the Player is no longer allowed to win additional entries into the FBWC Contest from Qualifiers, except for Qualifiers that the Player is already entered in and that are live at the time the six (6) entries into the FBWC Contest were accumulated. They may also win additional entries through any other non-qualifier promotion that includes entry to the FBWC Contest.

    EXAMPLE: Player has five (5) of the maximum six (6) entries permitted under these Contest Rules to the FBWC Contest and enters into two (2) different Qualifiers on Wednesday, 6/29. After the conclusion of those Qualifiers, the DraftKings Player is found to have won both Qualifiers. Under these Contest Rules, Player is awarded seven (7) entries to the FBWC Contest and is allowed to use the seven (7) winning entries, bringing the DraftKings Player total from five (5) to seven (7) entries to the FBWC Contest. Player is now no longer able to enter additional Qualifiers.

    Didn’t look up the CFB one, but this is from the WFBC. Seems like they cleared it up for anyone without common sense.

  • tonytone1908

    @Mphst18 said...

    You and just have different views which I’m ok with. Best of luck to you.

    Think about it like this. How exactly would you stop it? Then, how would you prove it? Then what happens when you get banned for colluding even though you didn’t? Would you be happy about that? How would you react?

  • Shipmymoney

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    @sjs1890 said...

    Why are entry limits more than 50 in the first place lets ask that question??? Theres very good statistics from thefantasyfanatics.com that show in order to have big gpps we do NOT need 150 entry limit so why do we have them? Majority of gpps are filled by the people entering 50 or less. Also why are GPPs so top heavy?? Who asked for that? This only caters even more to the high volume players because since big gpps are boom or bust on DK, it gives sharks incentive to enter as many teams as possible to try and hit that ridiculously top heavy prize. Cutting entry limits to 50 and balancing the pay structure i think would help a lot.

    Why do you think a top heavy pay structure caters to big players? Flat payout structures are much more +EV for guys running 150 lineups (and everyone else). It is casual players who see the huge $$ for first and flock to the tournament.

  • Mphst18

    @Shipmymoney said...

    Once a Player has accumulated six (6) entries to the FBWC Contest, the Player is no longer allowed to win additional entries into the FBWC Contest from Qualifiers, except for Qualifiers that the Player is already entered in and that are live at the time the six (6) entries into the FBWC Contest were accumulated. They may also win additional entries through any other non-qualifier promotion that includes entry to the FBWC Contest.

    EXAMPLE: Player has five (5) of the maximum six (6) entries permitted under these Contest Rules to the FBWC Contest and enters into two (2) different Qualifiers on Wednesday, 6/29. After the conclusion of those Qualifiers, the DraftKings Player is found to have won both Qualifiers. Under these Contest Rules, Player is awarded seven (7) entries to the FBWC Contest and is allowed to use the seven (7) winning entries, bringing the DraftKings Player total from five (5) to seven (7) entries to the FBWC Contest. Player is now no longer able to enter additional Qualifiers.

    Didn’t look up the CFB one, but this is from the WFBC. Seems like they cleared it up for anyone without common sense.

    Agreed the cleared it up for that one and thus no issue however for the cfb one that I linked it’s completely different.

  • Chuky

    @theseige said...

    If you look at the rules, if you qualify for more than 4 on the final day you can keep the seats, so if you have 3 seats and then win 2 more on a single day you get to keep both

    What else you got?

    Lmao, bs. Qualify up to 4 times mean 4. This is really insulting to people’s intelligence. Their rules are bs. I didn’t know about this either. Again regulation is going to put a choke hold on this bs going on. I prefer fd anyway. I was disappointed at DK when they started pushing the envelope on league of legends and other sports which in my opinion is just about making money and not about DFS. Greed is the order of the day and both them and greedy players looking to go around the rules in place are ruining DFS, not ppl looking for the integrity of games to be fair.

  • ataggart

    @Mphst18 said...

    It should be single entry the only reason it isn’t is greed. Not enough money for a site to make to only run single entry.

    So you agree the site can’t make enough money to operate running single entry, yet it’s “greed” for them not to do so?

    You can’t have it both ways.

  • Mphst18

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Think about it like this. How exactly would you stop it? Then, how would you prove it? Then what happens when you get banned for colluding even though you didn’t? Would you be happy about that? How would you react?

    Agreed policing and enforcing Is hard but ignoring and turning a blind eye isn’t the answer either.

    Everyone in here who plays enough knows who the teams are , what Ryan and David have done in the past and done here is evidence enough.

    Here is how the teams who do get banned will react they will create other accounts under friends information.

    But just because something is difficult doesn’t mean you don’t try. There is nothing wrong with hard work.

    Again you engaged me in an intellectual discussion with an opposing viewpoint and I respect that we just have different views and that’s a healthy world, it would be a boring world if we all were the same or had the same views.

  • Shipmymoney

    • 62

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    @Mphst18 said...

    Agreed the cleared it up for that one and thus no issue however for the cfb one that I linked it’s completely different.

    It wasn’t explicitly stated because most people don’t have an agenda and can use common sense to figure out that if you register 5 Qs in one day and win them all you get your seats

  • Mphst18

    @ataggart said...

    So you agree the site can’t make enough money to operate running single entry, yet it’s “greed” for them not to do so?

    You can’t have it both ways.

    Confused.

    They won’t only have single entries because they wouldn’t make enough money, not sure if would even be enough to cover expenses and operating costs.

    So the model is have top heavy payouts to attract the unsuspecting to give their money to the guys who can max enter (under the rules) or collude/syndicate/team play/circumvent

  • Mphst18

    @Shipmymoney said...

    It wasn’t explicitly stated because most people don’t have an agenda and can use common sense to figure out that if you register 5 Qs in one day and win them all you get your seats

    Most people would read UP to 4 to mean 4 but I guess that’s not you.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @Shipmymoney said...

    Why do you think a top heavy pay structure caters to big players? Flat payout structures are much more +EV for guys running 150 lineups (and everyone else). It is casual players who see the huge $$ for first and flock to the tournament.

    When the payout for 1st place is 40% of the total pot sharks running 150 lineups dont care about EV they care about nailing that top prize. Cutting the entry limit which 150 is not needed in any scenario to 50, and balancing the payout structure would help a lot imo.

  • tonytone1908

    @Mphst18 said...

    Agreed policing and enforcing I’d had but ignoring and turning a blind eye isn’t the answer either.

    Everyone in here who plays enough knows who the teams are , what Ryan and David have done in the past and done here is evidence enough.

    Here is how the teams who do get banned will react they will create other accounts under friends information.

    But just because something is difficult doesn’t mean you don’t try. There is nothing wrong with hard work.

    Again you engaged me in an intellectual discussion with an opposing viewpoint and I respect that we just have different views and that’s a healthy world, it would be a boring world if we all were the same of had the same views.

    Sure they can TRY and do something about it. What, I don’t know.

    But if say, you and I had the same player pool, we both max entered, and somehow my 150 and your 150 had the same players and no lineup overlap. We don’t know each other. Should we both be banned? I know these are grey areas but many things in life are conducted in grey areas, that’s just how most businesses work. Hell, DFS as a whole is a grey area in many places.

  • Shipmymoney

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    @sjs1890 said...

    When the payout for 1st place is 40% of the total pot sharks running 150 lineups dont care about EV they care about nailing that top prize. Cutting the entry limit which 150 is not needed in any scenario to 50, and balancing the payout structure would help a lot imo.

    No, guys playing for a living care about nothing except EV. Its counterintuitive to think otherwise.

  • tonytone1908

    @Mphst18 said...

    Agreed policing and enforcing Is hard but ignoring and turning a blind eye isn’t the answer either.

    Everyone in here who plays enough knows who the teams are , what Ryan and David have done in the past and done here is evidence enough.

    Here is how the teams who do get banned will react they will create other accounts under friends information.

    But just because something is difficult doesn’t mean you don’t try. There is nothing wrong with hard work.

    Again you engaged me in an intellectual discussion with an opposing viewpoint and I respect that we just have different views and that’s a healthy world, it would be a boring world if we all were the same or had the same views.

    Yes, if a qualifier is giving away 5 tickets and you happen to win all 5 in that qualifier, you deserve to keep them all. Imagine if they withheld an entry you won on a 1k qualifier. I’d be pissed.

    Sorry, quoted wrong post.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @Shipmymoney said...

    No, guys playing for a living care about nothing except EV. Its counterintuitive to think otherwise.

    Ha when 1st place is 40% of the total pot which is a joke they are strictly gunning for the 1st place prize thats almost common sense. Thats the reason these sharks are trying to over expand their already existing core.

  • Mphst18

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Sure they can TRY and do something about it. What, I don’t know.

    But if say, you and I had the same player pool, we both max entered, and somehow my 150 and your 150 had the same players and no lineup overlap. We don’t know each other. Should we both be banned? I know these are grey areas but many things in life are conducted in grey areas, that’s just how most businesses work. Hell, DFS as a whole is a grey area in many places.

    If we only had 20 players like they did and used the same ownership percentages like they did with the same salary constraints and algorithms we statistically couldn’t split out 150 each that wouldn’t overlap without working together to ensure you ever these 150 and I enter these 150.

  • Shipmymoney

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    @sjs1890 said...

    Ha when 1st place is 40% of the total pot which is a joke they are strictly gunning for the 1st place prize thats almost common sense.

    I wasn’t arguing that they aren’t trying to get first lol. I was arguing your claim that the reason for top heavy payout structures is to cater to max entry guys. If the structure were flatter, it would be more profitable for them to play. Therefore, they would be in favor of a flatter structure. The reason for the top heavy structure is to attract the casual player.

  • theseige

    • 2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x2

      2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    @Mphst18 said...

    Look at the order the first 4 were all completed before the 5th and don’t quite see what your saying in the listed Rules for the contest but hey let’s just play by whatever rules you say and not the ones in an enforceable agreement.

    Yum might want to read the T&C link under maximum entries rather than just rattling off an unwritten rule.

    It could have been the same day tho… They were running early and late slate Q’s, he could easily could have won morning Q’s and Evening seat… To say they were blatantly breaking the rules without proof is hilarious.

    Its not an unwritten rule its right there: Once a player has accumulated 4 entries to the FCFWC Contest they are no longer allowed to win entries in FCFWC Contest qualifier contests. They may however win additional entries through any other non-qualifier promotion that includes entry to the FCFWC.

    If he hadn’t accumulated 4 entries when he entered the Q, he was eligible to win the seats, in fact it doesn’t say a max of 4 anywhere

  • Mphst18

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Yes, if a qualifier is giving away 5 tickets and you happen to win all 5 in that qualifier, you deserve to keep them all. Imagine if they withheld an entry you won on a 1k qualifier. I’d be pissed.

    Sorry, quoted wrong post.

    If they say up to 4 they should only let you have 4 entries on this example you have lised of a single qualifier, but to maximize profits they allow more entries and then if need be in the future rewrite their T&C so they don’t get caught advertising win UP TO 4 times, NO MORE than 4.

  • tonytone1908

    @sjs1890 said...

    Ha when 1st place is 40% of the total pot which is a joke they are strictly gunning for the 1st place prize thats almost common sense. thats the reason these sharks are trying to over expand their already existing core.

    Idk, if I was doing max entry I’d be happy with a flatter payout. I’d prefer making a little money consistently then chasing a top prize and losing all my entry fees. I’d be fine with winning a few hundred every slate instead of losing all my lineups in search of that top prize.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @Shipmymoney said...

    I wasn’t arguing that they aren’t trying to get first lol. I was arguing your claim that the reason for top heavy payout structures is to cater to max entry guys. If the structure were flatter, it would be more profitable for them to play. Therefore, they would be in favor of a flatter structure. The reason for the top heavy structure is to attract the casual player.

    Thats also not believable, if it was true that a flatter structure would help the sharks then DK would have implemented that a long time ago. Nearly all their rules are catered to high volume players. Also over 55% of the money is being distributed to the top 50 out of 87,500 entrants is laughable.

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