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  • Mphst18

    DAUT44 and MIR84 already once caught colluding and disqualified from the kings cup by DK but still allowed to play on the site are back at it again colluding to circumvent the max entries for the millionaire maker so they have 300 entries.

    Each entered the max 150 lineups (MIR used 20 players) (DAUT used 22 players).

    The core 20 players used are identical with Reed (12% of DAUT lineups) and Finau (3.3% of DAUT lineups) as the 2 players DAUT used the MIR didnt.

    Both have 47%+ usage in lineups of main core of Kuchar, McIlroy, Molinari, Johnson, and Garcia.

    The Fact they these two who are known to work together, have been caught colluding before, have the same 20 players with near identical ownership %s yet have no lineups that overlap shows clearly they are doing this to have 300 entries (not the 150 limit).

    I understand these two are VIP players and dk generates a lot of revenue from them but how long will they allow their consumers to be unprotected and the integrity of their contests to be doubted.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @awesemo said...

    I believe that even though there is a rule against syndicate play, the de facto rule has been that this type of behavior is acceptable and will be until Draftkings issues further statements. Seems in poor taste though with the large discussion happening in the other thread.

    Draftkings own CEO was quoted that any accounts found to be forming a syndicate to get around the max entry rule would be banned. What more does he have to say? I guess actually maybe DOING something would be helpful.

  • dakimbell

    Really? Another one of these??

  • Lathum

    @dakimbell said...

    Really? Another one of these??

    You can always just not open the thread…

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    Wow yet another clear cut dry case where we can see 100% collusion no ifs ands or buts. In order to have the exact same core of players with ZERO dupes thats clear cut evidence of circumventing the entry limit which is flat out colluding under any definition. These guys are definitely stacking the odds in their favor even if it doesnt result in a big payout its still 100% cheating. DK needs to act on this asap enough is enough, they are showing a lack of leadership, lack of trust, and lack of respect showing they only care about the high volume players and letting them stack the deck. The fact DK hasnt responded to the first thread with all the proof needed is just flat out sad.

  • bolu

    Fanduel’s terms of use were updated on Saturday. I don’t see anything about syndicates, collusion, using multiple accounts or playing on behalf of others in a single account. I didn’t search hard since I saw Fanduel terms very recently and found some information on these issues, but maybe a change was made.

  • dakimbell

    @Lathum said...

    You can always just not open the thread…

    I do find it interesting that people worry so much about this, because i could care less.. Its not making you any better at DFS by obsessing
    over who is slightly bending the rules or cutting corners.

  • bolu

    I want Draftkings to make their rules more clear. I found Fanduel’s rules to be clearer and more consistent when I read them recently and found info on these types of issues

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    Also it has been proven by facts that to have big gpps we dont need high number of entries to fill gpps. Imo I think the first step DK needs to do is get rid of completely of these 150 entry limit no more than 50 is necessary we dont need it to fill the games its just facts.

  • bolu

    I’m not worrrying, but I don’t think DK is enforcing their rules enough.

  • AssaniFisher

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    @Mphst18 said...

    back at it again colluding to circumvent the max entries for the millionaire maker so they have 300 entries.

    I understand that your post gives overwhelming evidence that they worked together, but I don’t understand the accusation of circumventing the entry limit. They are 2 people, each allowed 150 entries. So how does them having a combined 300 entries mean they circumvented the entry limit? Are you saying that if 2 people work together, they should only be allowed 75 entries each?

  • tonytone1908

    @sjs1890 said...

    Also it has been proven by facts that to have big gpps we dont need high number of entries to fill gpps. Imo I think the first step DK needs to do is get rid of completely of these 150 entry limit no more than 50 is necessary we dont need it to fill the games its just facts.

    Fine. But you realize you’ll cut your prizes into 1/3rd right? Then when you have 10 people working together instead of 2 to circumvent the limits, it would really be pretty impossible to prove it then.

    Everyone has these bright ideas but never really thinks through to what the end result would be. People are always looking for an edge and they will continue to look until they find one. Close one off now, they’ll just find another way.

    Keep reducing entries and every game will be an $8k bunt. No thanks.

  • tonytone1908

    @AssaniFisher said...

    I understand that your post gives overwhelming evidence that they worked together, but I don’t understand the accusation of circumventing the entry limit. They are 2 people, each allowed 150 entries. So how does them having a combined 300 entries mean they circumvented the entry limit? Are you saying that if 2 people work together, they should only be allowed 75 entries each?

    *dropsmic

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Fine. But you realize you’ll cut your prizes into 1/3rd right? Then when you have 10 people working together instead of 2 to circumvent the limits, it would really be pretty impossible to prove it then.

    Everyone has these bright ideas but never really thinks through to what the end result would be. People are always looking for an edge and they will continue to look until they find one. Close one off now, they’ll just find another way.

    Keep reducing entries and every game will be an $8k bunt. No thanks.

    10 people working together instead of 2 would be blatantly obvious if we can already detect 2 players doing this. Im 100% all for cutting the prize pools 1/3 in hopes they could grow the customer base for the future the correct and honest way and not cater to one specific group that IS NOT NEEDED TO FILL GPPS.

  • AssaniFisher

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    Question regarding the TOS….

    Are you allowed to tell everyone your team(lets say via twitter for example) so that nobody duplicates your LU? In something like the MM you might get some people duplicating you just out of spite, but for a contest such as the ThunderDome I can’t imagine anyone wasting $5300 just to screw you over.

  • lakewoody

    One can’t prove they are swapping action but it would be grossly naive to believe they are not.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @AssaniFisher said...

    I understand that your post gives overwhelming evidence that they worked together, but I don’t understand the accusation of circumventing the entry limit. They are 2 people, each allowed 150 entries. So how does them having a combined 300 entries mean they circumvented the entry limit? Are you saying that if 2 people work together, they should only be allowed 75 entries each?

    Its not rocket science to understand, almost common sense actually. Yes each player is allowed 150 entries, what is not allowed is to collaborate, work together as a syndicate with blatant proof of using the exact same core. Its a ploy to be able to cover more possible outcomes. This type of play has never been allowed on DK, the only thing is DK chooses not to enforce their own rules.

  • xdan3220

    The argument that we just shouldn’t play the milly maker is not a good one, for starters we can’t know that they colluded until after the contest starts. The results in the last milly maker in golf clearly show that this collusion can have a life changing impact on other players since positions 1-4 were filled with colluders, potentially costing 5th place $970,000. These players entries should be immediately cancelled with no refund and their accounts banned. It is simple and would prevent anyone thinking of doing it in the future from colluding

  • AssaniFisher

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    @sjs1890 said...

    Also it has been proven by facts that to have big gpps we dont need high number of entries to fill gpps. Imo I think the first step DK needs to do is get rid of completely of these 150 entry limit no more than 50 is necessary we dont need it to fill the games its just facts.

    This MM only allowed 150 entries which was lower than in the past. And it didn’t fill(86,099/87,500 entries). DK has also paid out millions of dollars in overlay over the course of their company history.

    What facts are you referencing?

  • Mphst18

    @AssaniFisher said...

    I understand that your post gives overwhelming evidence that they worked together, but I don’t understand the accusation of circumventing the entry limit. They are 2 people, each allowed 150 entries. So how does them having a combined 300 entries mean they circumvented the entry limit? Are you saying that if 2 people work together, they should only be allowed 75 entries each?

    What are the chances that they each would like the same 20 players and each make 150 lineups and not one would be identical ( that’s even before knowing thier past history of collusion or as you like to laugh it off they toed the line).

    You also look at 50 percent both on FM when the whole world knew at the 6100 price point dfs ownership would be much higher on AS. So to be contrarian they both went FM which strategically makes sense but amazingly again not one lineup overlap.

    Let’s also look at all Ryan’s entry totals are either 50, 49.9, or 49.6 and below salary cap (notice no 49.8 or 49.7) while all David’s are 49.8 and 49.7 salary cap.

    Look Assani I get it this affects you you used to play in a team who knows still may but at some point, your boy arron still does. if you want to be a voice for people or the community you have to be objective.

  • AssaniFisher

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    @sjs1890 said...

    Its not rocket science to understand, almost common sense actually. Yes each player is allowed 150 entries, what is not allowed is to collaborate, work together as a syndicate with blatant proof of using the exact same core. Its a ploy to be able to cover more possible outcomes. This type of play has never been allowed on DK, the only thing is DK chooses not to enforce their own rules.

    I understand that there might be an issue with syndication here. What I didn’t understand was the claim that there was an issue of circumventing the entry limits(and I still don’t understand it).

  • tonytone1908

    @sjs1890 said...

    10 people working together instead of 2 would be blatantly obvious if we can already detect 2 players doing this. Im 100% all for cutting the prize pools 1/3 in hopes they could grow the customer base for the future the correct and honest way and not cater to one specific group that IS NOT NEEDED TO FILL GPPS.

    You realize there’s already games with smaller prize pools and lower entry limits that you could play right?

    You know, Bill Belichick has been very good for years at “bending” the rules and that’s all that’s being done here. The rules are laid out for everyone and they’re using them to their advantage. Of course anyone with multi entry capabilities is going to have a better chance than single entry people, that’s just common sense but it’s also not a guarantee of winning anything. McIlroy pulls a hammy 3 holes in and they’re all screwed.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @AssaniFisher said...

    This MM only allowed 150 entries which was lower than in the past. And it didn’t fill(86,099/87,500 entries). DK has also paid out millions of dollars in overlay over the course of their company history.

    What facts are you referencing?

    If you actually read the other thread there were facts with stats provided by thefantasyfanatics that show the majority of gpps are filled by the common people not the max entry users. Just because it was lowered to 150 does not mean thats ok, as you can see theres been cheating still going on with 150 limit.

  • AssaniFisher

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    @Mphst18 said...

    What are the chances that they each would like the same 20 players and each make 150 lineups and not one would be identical ( that’s even before knowing thier past history of collusion or as you like to laugh it off they toed the line).

    You also look at 50 percent both on FM when the whole world knew at the 6100 price point dfs ownership would be much higher on AS. So to be contrarian they both went FM which strategically makes sense but amazingly again not one lineup overlap.

    Let’s also look at all Ryan’s entry totals are either 50, 49.9, or 49.6 and below salary cap (notice no 49.8 or 49.7) while all David’s are 49.8 and 49.7 salary cap.

    Look Assani I get it this affects you you used to play in a team who knows still may but at some point, your boy arron still does. if you want to be a voice for people or the community you have to be objective.

    I think you misunderstood my post. Your reply seems to focus on whether or not they are working as a team(syndication). I wasn’t asking about that; I was asking about your claim that they were circumventing the entry limit. I didn’t(and still don’t) understand that claim.

  • xdan3220

    @AssaniFisher said...

    Question regarding the TOS….

    Are you allowed to tell everyone your team(lets say via twitter for example) so that nobody duplicates your LU? In something like the MM you might get some people duplicating you just out of spite, but for a contest such as the ThunderDome I can’t imagine anyone wasting $5300 just to screw you over.

    Don’t think this would be considered syndicate play for several reasons:

    1) no reason to believe profits would be shared
    2) You don’t have any way of knowing what people are going to do with the info, let’s say I won a qualifier for the thunderdome and golf is my worst DFS sport, and I see that you posted your lineup on twitter, I’d be more likely to play that same lineup knowing you have more PGA success than I’ve had, gives me a better chance of succeeding whereas another player may purposefully not play that same lineup.
    3) You aren’t actually working with anyone to attempt to circumvent the max entry limits

  • JoakimNoah4Life

    @AssaniFisher said...

    I understand that your post gives overwhelming evidence that they worked together, but I don’t understand the accusation of circumventing the entry limit. They are 2 people, each allowed 150 entries. So how does them having a combined 300 entries mean they circumvented the entry limit? Are you saying that if 2 people work together, they should only be allowed 75 entries each?

    The issue is they are using the same pool of players/teams, and splitting them up to ensure they have no duplicates. Should people be allowed to do this in a 3 man sng to ensure no overlap and best chance one of them wins? What about a satty to a Live final? As noted before, they’ve already been caught “cheating” (not sure it was actually cheating, but they were DQed so that’s the term Im using) so it’s very safe to assume they are a team and the fact they dont have any identical rosters is not by coincidence.

    Edit – seems you already addressed this with other posts…

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