PGA FORUM

Comments

  • Mphst18

    DAUT44 and MIR84 already once caught colluding and disqualified from the kings cup by DK but still allowed to play on the site are back at it again colluding to circumvent the max entries for the millionaire maker so they have 300 entries.

    Each entered the max 150 lineups (MIR used 20 players) (DAUT used 22 players).

    The core 20 players used are identical with Reed (12% of DAUT lineups) and Finau (3.3% of DAUT lineups) as the 2 players DAUT used the MIR didnt.

    Both have 47%+ usage in lineups of main core of Kuchar, McIlroy, Molinari, Johnson, and Garcia.

    The Fact they these two who are known to work together, have been caught colluding before, have the same 20 players with near identical ownership %s yet have no lineups that overlap shows clearly they are doing this to have 300 entries (not the 150 limit).

    I understand these two are VIP players and dk generates a lot of revenue from them but how long will they allow their consumers to be unprotected and the integrity of their contests to be doubted.

  • GiantBallofOil

    @AssaniFisher said...

    A second question I would ask is this: “Does our opinion on the charges of collusion change depending on if the 2 people have a piece of each other’s action?”

    Absolutely. Regardless of the lineups, if these two (or any two) don’t profit from each other’s lineup, then it’s hard to say they should be subject to a group entry limit. For sure, and good point.

  • bolu

    This is an area where most violations won’t be caught, but that’s OK. For example, here are two things under “conduct that would be deemed improper”:

    Colluding with any other individual(s) or engaging in any type of syndicate play;
    Using a single Account to participate in a Contest on behalf of multiple entrants or otherwise collaborating with others to participate in any Contest;

    Trying to punish most violations would hurt them in other ways. Draftkings can’t stop syndicate play, but they can do more. It is a cat and mouse game and people would try to open up new accounts.

  • jjwd

    @AssaniFisher said...

    I think these are interesting questions that should be debated out in the open. But instead we get a bunch of people very eager to jump to conclusions and finger-point, and I think the end result is that the RG community never actually gets anything done in regards to catching cheaters.

    Yes. Personally I think the RG mods should take control of the tone of these threads… not sure why it’s OK for posters to call other users “scumbags”, etc… people have been banned for less in the past.

  • shamrock77s

    @AssaniFisher said...

    -1 user publicly posts their LU to ensure nobody who sees it would play the same LU(I recognize that maybe this would result in non-sharp people copying their LU thinking “well if a sharp person is playing it then I should too”, which is why when I first posed this question I asked regarding a $5300 ThunderDome, as I assumed nobody who enters that would fail to understand this concept)

    Can you give an example of any time that this has happened?

  • AssaniFisher

    • 106

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @GiantBallofOil said...

    Absolutely. Regardless of the lineups, if these two (or any two) don’t profit from each other’s lineup, then it’s hard to say they should be subject to a group entry limit. For sure, and good point.

    Ok, thats very interesting. I don’t know if I agree or not just yet. I definitely would like to hear other opinions.

    So to clarify- If Ryan and David did indeed use the same pool of players and did indeed ensure that they had no duplicated, but they did NOT share any of their profits….then you think thats fine? If the rest of the community agrees on this(as I said I’m still undecided) then it seem as if we’ve pinpointed the issue- having a piece of each other’s action.

    I guess a follow up question would then be: Is it ok to have a piece of each other’s action if you don’t work together in any way?

  • Mphst18

    Here is a question since you like questions. Tuesday night I made 300 lineups for the milly maker, I then emailed dk and asked if my friend( who is an actual person ) could enter the other 150 since I am maxed out at 150, what do you think their response is?

  • AssaniFisher

    • 106

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @shamrock77s said...

    Can you give an example of any time that this has happened?

    I don’t know of any specific time it has happened(but I still think its a pertinent question in regards to us helping the sites formulate clear and concise rules that can be enforced)

  • AssaniFisher

    • 106

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @Mphst18 said...

    Here is a question since you like questions. Tuesday night I made 300 lineups for the milly maker, I then emailed dk and asked if my friend( who us an actual person ) could enter the other 150 since I am maxed out at 150, what do you think their response is?

    See this is the exact thing I“m talking about….I’m attempting to truly dive into this problem by throwing out questions to the community, seeing the responses, and then collectively arriving at conclusions. IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY INTERESTED IN RIDING THE DFS WORLD OF CHEATING THEN YOU WOULD BE A WELCOME PARTICIPANT IN THIS. But your response is to make snide commentary that only serves to distract us. I firmly believe that you are hindering our community’s ability to out cheaters when you do this. You should most definitely not be the person in charge of leading the community’s efforts.

  • teamcdot

    >2016
    Assani still spewing out the same old rhetoric where a statement ends up being some question to avoid the issue at hand. Dude never gives a full fledged straight answer, always beating around the bush for his friends and DK lol.

  • Mphst18

    I don’t think it matters if they have each other’s action or not for a few reasons even in a contest where the top prize is 1 million and the proof is so glaring you would be very naive to think these two aren’t splitting.

    1. It’s agains the TOS

    2. Let’s say my friend is broke and he can’t afford 150 entries so he enters them under his account but he’s just doing it as a friend he doesn’t get any money i just want to enter more than 150 entries. I have circumvented the entry limit, second user is an actual person so by your prior statement it to you isn’t multi accounting they control their account.

  • Mphst18

    @AssaniFisher said...

    See this is the exact thing I“m talking about….I’m attempting to truly dive into this problem by throwing out questions to the community, seeing the responses, and then collectively arriving at conclusions. IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY INTERESTED IN RIDING THE DFS WORLD OF CHEATING THEN YOU WOULD BE A WELCOME PARTICIPANT IN THIS. But your response is to make snide commentary that only serves to distract us. I firmly believe that you are hindering our community’s ability to out cheaters when you do this. You should most definitely not be the person in charge of leading the community’s efforts.

    Funny I seemed
    To ask a question like you did, but I guess my question caused you to think their response would not agree with your opinion so you just get angry and dismiss it.

  • teamcdot

    @Mphst18 said...

    I don’t think it matters if they have each other’s action or not for a few reasons even in a contest where the top prize is 1 million and the proof is so glaring you would be very naive to think these two aren’t splitting.

    1. It’s agains the TOS

    2. Let’s say my friend is broke and he can’t afford 150 entries so he enters them under his account but he’s just doing it as a friend he doesn’t get any money i ust want to enter more than 150 entries.

    You do realize that Assani believes that colluding doesn’t happen on DFS, right?

  • Mphst18

    Yes he also comes across very hypocritical. In his vlog he laughs off Ryan and David’s collusion but now he seems all against collusion and team play even though he started off by bilking others out of their money through team play.

  • shamrock77s

    @AssaniFisher said...

    I don’t know of any specific time it has happened(but I still think its a pertinent question in regards to us helping the sites formulate clear and concise rules that can be enforced)

    I think the issue at hand is that the sites have rules already, that prohibit collusion. When the CEO states that those actions are unacceptable, and violations will be punished, and then allows this much silent acceptance to occur, it creates a lack of trust in the integrity of the site. It’s not a matter of helping them formulate rules for things that have never happened, it’s about them taking action when their TOS are violated.
    The same thing that happened today in the Milly Maker happened in the Milly Maker 2 weeks ago. I don’t understand why DK has yet to say or do anything about the collusion that has occurred to circumvent entry limits…even if the action that they want to take is to say that they can’t/won’t do anything about it.

  • JoakimNoah4Life

    @AssaniFisher said...

    Ok, thats very interesting. I don’t know if I agree or not just yet. I definitely would like to hear other opinions.

    So to clarify- If Ryan and David did indeed use the same pool of players and did indeed ensure that they had no duplicated, but they did NOT share any of their profits….then you think thats fine? If the rest of the community agrees on this(as I said I’m still undecided) then it seem as if we’ve pinpointed the issue- having a piece of each other’s action.

    I guess a follow up question would then be: Is it ok to have a piece of each other’s action if you don’t work together in any way?

    IMO whether they share profits or not it does not matter. We could NEVER prove whether they share profits or not and there is zero way of verifying or protecting against it.

    While we cant be 100% sure that they are “colluding” by using the same pool of teams and avoiding duplicates, it is something we can be strongly sure of with a decent enough sample. That is against the rules and should not be allowed whether they are sharing profits or not.

    Certainly it wouldnt be allowed in a 3 man sng (even if they weren’t sharing profits). Surely is SHOULDNT be allowed in Live Qualifiers (although I’m guessing this goes on all the time with the high stakes “teams”), so why should it be allowed in a 150 max entry?

  • AssaniFisher

    • 106

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @JoakimNoah4Life said...

    IMO whether they share profits or not it does not matter. We could NEVER prove whether they share profits or not and there is zero way of verifying or protecting against it.

    While we cant be 100% sure that they are “colluding” by using the same pool of teams and avoiding duplicates, it is something we can be strongly sure of with a decent enough sample. That is against the rules and should not be allowed whether they are sharing profits or not.

    Certainly it wouldnt be allowed in a 3 man sng (even if they weren’t sharing profits). Surely is SHOULDNT be allowed in Live Qualifiers (although I’m guessing this goes on all the time with the high stakes “teams”), so why should it be allowed in a 150 max entry?

    Ok cool, seems like the community is a bit split on the issue of whether or not it matters if they share profits. I think we should have a lengthy discussion about this and attempt to arrive at a consensus. Then we should turn our attention to some of the other questions I raised. Once we have a consensus on all of them then we’ll be able to come up with an actual set of rules.

    Obviously, in theory, you’d like for the sites to be able to do this on their own, but its just not practical(and poker has proven this).

  • stevietpfl

    Morning Grind co-host, Lead NASCAR Analyst

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FAWBC Finalist

    Hey Everyone we have let you guys debate and talk about this, but we will not settle for personal attacks on others. It’s the first guideline in our rules. Your post will be deleted, and let this be your warning.

    #1) Be Civil and Constructive

    No personal attacks, name-calling, “trolling,” or “flaming.” No posting of speculation as fact. The boards are full of debates and suggestions to sites – just be sure to keep your posts civil if you get involved in any discussions.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @AssaniFisher said...

    See this is the exact thing I“m talking about….I’m attempting to truly dive into this problem by throwing out questions to the community, seeing the responses, and then collectively arriving at conclusions. IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY INTERESTED IN RIDING THE DFS WORLD OF CHEATING THEN YOU WOULD BE A WELCOME PARTICIPANT IN THIS. But your response is to make snide commentary that only serves to distract us. I firmly believe that you are hindering our community’s ability to out cheaters when you do this. You should most definitely not be the person in charge of leading the community’s efforts.

    The thing is who cares about your questions go start another thread if you want to talk about those issues. We have a clear cut situation here that is what this thread is about. There is very obvious proof of 2 people colluding by having the same exact core with zero dupes over 300 lineups. Do you not think people are syndicates here or what???

  • AssaniFisher

    • 106

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @Mphst18 said...

    Yes he also comes across very hypocritical. In his vlog he laughs off Ryan and David’s collusion but now he seems all against collusion and team play even though he started off by bilking others out of their money through team play.

    You’ve completely misunderstood me. My stance has always been to be clear and honest about everything I know, and then let the community decide. You seem to be the one who has a really strong opinion that you’re not willing to budge on. I’m completely open-minded, and I think letting the community decide is best. If the community ever decides that I’ve done something wrong, then I will legitimately try my best to pay back any money I’ve won illegally(whether it be directly to the other people in the contest with me or through a donation to charity).

  • xdan3220

    @JoakimNoah4Life said...

    IMO whether they share profits or not it does not matter. We could NEVER prove whether they share profits or not and there is zero way of verifying or protecting against it.

    While we cant be 100% sure that they are “colluding” by using the same pool of teams and avoiding duplicates, it is something we can be strongly sure of with a decent enough sample. That is against the rules and should not be allowed whether they are sharing profits or not.

    Certainly it wouldnt be allowed in a 3 man sng (even if they weren’t sharing profits). Surely is SHOULDNT be allowed in Live Qualifiers (although I’m guessing this goes on all the time with the high stakes “teams”), so why should it be allowed in a 150 max entry?

    I have to disagree with you here, because in the end I think it entirely comes down to profit sharing, otherwise it really isn’t an attempt to circumvent the entry limit since that in and of itself would mean a player is gaining an advantage of having exposure to lineups beyond 150 lineups. In the case of them not sharing profits then there is no advantage because they don’t have exposure to any lineups beyond 150, if any of their 150 hits good for them if any of the other 150 hit that they don’t have a piece of they get no benefit.

    To give an example, every day a friend and I let the other know what our MLB lineups for the night are going to be. I look over his and he looks over mine and we each offer some opinions on whether we like or dislike the others lineup. Sometimes I see a play I didn’t think of and vice versa and will end up using someone based on his recommendation and again vice versa. I have no access to his account, when either of us win we don’t share any profits with the other and we don’t coordinate our entries into any certain contests. Essentially we are just helping each other out. On a grander scale if he and I decided to play full time and each day we both came up with a full range of projections for every player, combined them, and put them into a lineup generator and he took half and I took half and we each entered them but still had no access to each others accounts, no sharing of profits and no coordination (i.e. you enter this contest and I’ll enter this one, etc..) then that isn’t syndicate play that is simply sharing research at least in my opinion.

  • Mphst18

    @AssaniFisher said...

    Then we should turn our attention to some of the other questions I raised

    Yes we should only focus on your questions and nothing that anyone else has raised whether in this thread or he the one were mazwa/Ragingphilip were caught.

  • AssaniFisher

    • 106

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @sjs1890 said...

    The thing is who cares about your questions go start another thread if you want to talk about those issues. We have a clear cut situation here that is what this thread is about. There is very obvious proof of 2 people colluding by having the same exact core with zero dupes over 300 lineups. Do you not think people are syndicates here or what???

    There have already been multiple threads where Mphst18 makes an accusation, everyone piles on without any regards for nuance, and NOTHING ENDS UP GETTING ACCOMPLISHED. Do you really think this thread was finally gonna be the one to change things?

    You say “who cares about your questions?”….I think the people who actually want to get rid of cheating care, as they realize that our current approach isn’t getting us anywhere.

    If the mods would rather make my questions into a separate thread and let this thread replicate more of the ineffective methods we’ve used in the past then I’m cool with that.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @Mphst18 said...

    Yes we should only focus on your questions and nothing that anyone else has raised whether in this thread or he the one were mazwa/Ragingphilip were caught.

    Exactly both these recent threads are about 2 different set of players using the same exact core over 300 lineups with no dupes. That is the issue this thread is trying to focus on.

  • AssaniFisher

    • 106

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @Mphst18 said...

    Yes we should only focus on your questions and nothing that anyone else has raised whether in this thread or he the one were mazwa/Ragingphilip were caught.

    How much success have you had with your approach? Have the sites listened to you at all? Has there been any less cheating as a result of your work?

    I think your approach is ineffective. I think my approach would be much better. I do apologize if I should’ve started a separate thread instead of hijacking yours. As I said, mods are free to move my posts to another thread if they wish and I’ll leave this thread alone.

  • Ravensfan929

    So has anybody reported this to Dk with the evidence and if so what was their response?

  • X Unread Thread
  • X Thread with New Replies*
  • *Jumps to your first unread reply

Subforum Index

RotoGrinders.com is the home of the daily fantasy sports community. Our content, rankings, member blogs, promotions and forum discussion all cater to the players that like to create a new fantasy team every day of the week.

If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL). Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (NJ/WV/PA/MI), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (CO), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-888-532-3500 (VA) or call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN).