INDUSTRY FORUM

  • BurrTheBaddestB

    I’d like to first start this thread off by offering up a nice, big (albeit backhanded) congrats to four fine gentlemen on creating such a solid lineup for last night’s main NBA slate over on FanDuel. With that being said, here’s the 1K NBA Mini Shot contest where I noticed DFS players “bigbadjayman”, “mcbruce575”, “nando2”, and “rocketrubly” taking and tying for third place with the same lineup (and even more astonishing, their chosen players appearing in the EXACT same order).

    I personally don’t see the benefit of doing this in such a small contest other than colluding to split winnings down the middle. With that being said, though, the real question for me is this: “Why” and “Is this NOT against the rules” regardless? If this is so blatantly happening by the “small guys” in minimal risk/reward tournaments, we can all only imagine what goes on in the big GPP’s (regardless of entry fee) where it can’t be noticed quite as easily.

    With that being said (and just in case the link doesn’t work for some), their lineups consisted of the following players (in the EXACT same order, from top to bottom):

    PG: Westbrook
    PG: Irving
    SG: Harden
    SG: Shumpert
    SF: Barnes
    SF: Ingles
    PF: Morris
    PF: Powell
    C: Thompson

    I mean, c’mon.

  • BmoreClutch

    @sambo58 said...

    I think Dan made a point yesterday that you should have to make at least two selections yourself, or maybe the RG lineup builder forces you to do that. I agree with that logic, If I do build multiple lineups, I normally lock in at least 2-3 and go from there.

    The RG DK LU builder forces you to select 2 players. The FD builder doesn’t force you to select any. From listening to the pod it sounds like DK told RG that you have to select 2 players before running the optimizer. What I find odd is I can go to any other optimizer and not have to select 2 players on DK.

  • JCULL

    The stats are out there, just don’t try to find them on DFS site. Try real news sites, it’s all been covered.

    If DFS was like poker there would be no multi LU’s… one player, one hand. Skill beats me 1 on 1, money beats me 150 on 1.

    I never said they should payout more people, just make the playing field fair with less LU’s.

    A big reason for the merger between DK and FD is because they’re both extremely cash poor. Because the same 1% Win most of the cash and take it out… if 25% won something, on average, more money would stay on the sites.

    Look no further than the plummeting GPP sizes to see the trouble they’re having.

    They start this business catering to a select few, it’s a fundamentally flawed system.

  • JCULL

    @ElwoodB said...

    I’m calling it now: NBA is the first DFS sport that has been totally roont! Roont! It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the best players got together and perfected their algorithm which would explain why you need a ridiculous score just to min cash.

    I’m done with NBA.

    We’ll see if they are able to ruin MLB and NFL next season…. which will then kill DFS for normal people.

    MLB was the first to be ruined. NFL will be the last.

  • JCULL

    $20,000,000 prize pools with 150 per person LU’s are sexy, sexy like a stripper. You can dump all the money you want at her but you’ll never “score”.

  • kb32dawgs

    • 760

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2021 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    I’ve said this a few times before but if sites would restructure their payouts so trains and copied lineups wouldn’t split winnings like 1st through 50th then that would most certainly keep people from playing optimized and bought lineups for fear that they will have to share 1st place with 50 other guys. Its no where near right for 1st through 50th to share 50 payout spots. Case in point, the other night a player on FD was screwed out of 40k because 50 players had the same winning lineup. Those 50 players should have had to split 100k evenly and 2nd place still got 2nd place money and not a lame as 150 bucks. DFS is on the decline for sure and it will only get worse and worse until things like this are fixed. Yeah contest are filling every night but the contest sizes are getting smaller and smaller.

  • Zieg30

    • 465

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    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @kb32dawgs said...

    I’ve said this a few times before but if sites would restructure their payouts so trains and copied lineups wouldn’t split winnings like 1st through 50th then that would most certainly keep people from playing optimized and bought lineups for fear that they will have to share 1st place with 50 other guys. Its no where near right for 1st through 50th to share 50 payout spots. Case in point, the other night a player on FD was screwed out of 40k because 50 players had the same winning lineup. Those 50 players should have had to split 100k evenly and 2nd place still got 2nd place money and not a lame as 150 bucks. DFS is on the decline for sure and it will only get worse and worse until things like this are fixed. Yeah contest are filling every night but the contest sizes are getting smaller and smaller.

    This idea would ruin DFS tournaments. You can’t penalize players for merely having the same lineup as others.

    I tied with two other players for 4th place in a tournament a few nights ago, two other players I didn’t know, and it’d have been crazy for us to merely split the 4th place prize while the player who came in “5th”, with a worse lineup, wound up getting a bigger prize.

    The sites should police things that are against their rules/policies, but this idea above is 100% not the way to do it.

  • JCULL

    I’ve split prizes 35 ways on short slates, and my LU was “original”…. I think the problems run much deeper than that.

  • kb32dawgs

    • 760

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2021 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @Zieg30 said...

    This idea would ruin DFS tournaments. You can’t penalize players for merely having the same lineup as others.

    I tied with two other players for 4th place in a tournament a few nights ago, two other players I didn’t know, and it’d have been crazy for us to merely split the 4th place prize while the player who came in “5th”, with a worse lineup, wound up getting a bigger prize.

    The sites should police things that are against their rules/policies, but this idea above is 100% not the way to do it.

    But it’s to screw the guy coming in second when he should have gotten 40k? I mean the dude had the second best lineup in a 500k GPP and got 150 bucks. Hows that any different?

  • jstevens2k11

    Playing devils advocate here, Im not saying these are my stances but more just throwing a different angle into the story. Please feel free to shred my comments apart haha.

    DFS sites try to attact more players & cater to the newcomers where possible. Sites & optimizers only help without their fingerprints on the negative side. These opto sites retweet every other day about one to a few ppl that won a ton of money and attract more users. From their business side these opto sites are amazing. Is it shortsightedness ruining the long-term vision of the game? Maybe, probably. Will there be a considerable change when the industry leaders merge eventually? Maybe, hopefully.

    I think from a general public sense these opto sites are bad, but from a business side they’re great.

  • bigwillie20

    @kb32dawgs said...

    Those 50 players should have had to split 100k evenly and 2nd place still got 2nd place money

    Oh my head

  • JCULL

    @jstevens2k11 said...

    Playing devils advocate here, Im not saying these are my stances but more just throwing a different angle into the story. Please feel free to shred my comments apart haha.

    DFS sites try to attact more players & cater to the newcomers where possible. Sites & optimizers only help without their fingerprints on the negative side. These opto sites retweet every other day about one to a few ppl that won a ton of money and attract more users. From their business side these opto sites are amazing. Is it shortsightedness ruining the long-term vision of the game? Maybe, probably. Will there be a considerable change when the industry leaders merge eventually? Maybe, hopefully.

    I think from a general public sense these opto sites are bad, but from a business side they’re great.

    I don’t think those sites are the problem. DFS is fundamentally flawed with its massive multi LU system. It will be the demise of the industry if not changed.

  • edro990

    @kb32dawgs said...

    But it’s to screw the guy coming in second when he should have gotten 40k? I mean the dude had the second best lineup in a 500k GPP and got 150 bucks. Hows that any different?

    No, he had the 51st best lineup. Just because the others were all the same doesn’t make him 2nd. What if the ties for first were different LUs with the same score? I get where your coming from, but that’s not the solution. Sites need to be more proactive with this before it’s too late……………..

  • kb32dawgs

    • 760

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2021 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @edro990 said...

    No, he had the 51st best lineup. Just because the others were all the same doesn’t make him 2nd. What if the ties for first were different LUs with the same score? I get where your coming from, but that’s not the solution. Sites need to be more proactive with this before it’s too late……………..

    I guess we all have our opinions on this issue but the only thing that’s for sure is DFS is on a serious decline and can not survive going forward in the direction its been going since the “Ethan” fiasco. I love playing DFS but if legal sports gambling was ever approved, it would be the end for me. At least with sports betting, I make my bet, enjoy watching the game and collect my money, not having to stress over all the shit that’s going on with DFS.

  • mansaofall

    So much complaining…

  • edro990

    @kb32dawgs said...

    I guess we all have our opinions on this issue but the only thing that’s for sure is DFS is on a serious decline and can not survive going forward in the direction its been going since the “Ethan” fiasco.

    Agreed.

  • dude_abides7

    @kb32dawgs said...

    At least with sports betting, I make my bet, enjoy watching the game and collect my money, not having to stress over all the shit that’s going on with DFS.

    That’s because you are not ‘making a living’ off of it. That is who is being catered to at the expense of your opinion and gaming preferences.

  • dude_abides7

    @mansaofall said...

    So much complaining…

    Worthy contribution….

    Thanks for coming.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 319

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    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @BmoreClutch said...

    The RG DK LU builder forces you to select 2 players. The FD builder doesn’t force you to select any. From listening to the pod it sounds like DK told RG that you have to select 2 players before running the optimizer. What I find odd is I can go to any other optimizer and not have to select 2 players on DK.

    This was a requirement from DraftKings. Supposedly all sites will be required to do this but it’s disappointing how slowly DK is pushing it along across the board. RotoWire complied with the change for DK as well.

  • JimKronlund

    Just for a point of interest I am a Max LU player in Golf only. I am ranked 34th. Sounds ok right? Well overall I am not profitable. Just like winning big money in a GPP you need to be in the top 6. Those that are betting the big money on most sports and ranked really low. I still wonder if they are truly profitable or just are addicted and can afford (or not) the losses.
    Why would a player like Saalihsud create a site similar to fantasy labs if he was that profitable!
    Just fodder for thought.

  • raiders7532

    Sites that have and sell optimal and computer generated line ups should be made illegal ,just like offshore casinos. DFS is suppose to be a game of skill.

  • raiders7532

    @JCULL said...

    The stats are out there, just don’t try to find them on DFS site. Try real news sites, it’s all been covered.

    If DFS was like poker there would be no multi LU’s… one player, one hand. Skill beats me 1 on 1, money beats me 150 on 1.

    I never said they should payout more people, just make the playing field fair with less LU’s.

    A big reason for the merger between DK and FD is because they’re both extremely cash poor. Because the same 1% Win most of the cash and take it out… if 25% won something, on average, more money would stay on the sites.

    Look no further than the plummeting GPP sizes to see the trouble they’re having.

    They start this business catering to a select few, it’s a fundamentally flawed system.

    I agree 100%.

  • BmoreClutch

    @Cal said...

    This was a requirement from DraftKings. Supposedly all sites will be required to do this but it’s disappointing how slowly DK is pushing it along across the board. RotoWire complied with the change for DK as well.

    That just shows how poor the decision making is at DraftKings. Why would they not push it across the board all at once? It’s a bad look IMO when you have 2 free optimizers complying with the change, and none of the paid sites are.

  • madmanjayWV

    @BurrTheBaddestB said...

    I’d like to first start this thread off by offering up a nice, big (albeit backhanded) congrats to four fine gentlemen on creating such a solid lineup for last night’s main NBA slate over on FanDuel. With that being said, here’s the 1K NBA Mini Shot contest where I noticed DFS players “bigbadjayman”, “mcbruce575”, “nando2”, and “rocketrubly” taking and tying for third place with the same lineup (and even more astonishing, their chosen players appearing in the EXACT same order).

    I personally don’t see the benefit of doing this in such a small contest other than colluding to split winnings down the middle. With that being said, though, the real question for me is this: “Why” and “Is this NOT against the rules” regardless? If this is so blatantly happening by the “small guys” in minimal risk/reward tournaments, we can all only imagine what goes on in the big GPP’s (regardless of entry fee) where it can’t be noticed quite as easily.

    With that being said (and just in case the link doesn’t work for some), their lineups consisted of the following players (in the EXACT same order, from top to bottom):

    PG: Westbrook
    PG: Irving
    SG: Harden
    SG: Shumpert
    SF: Barnes
    SF: Ingles
    PF: Morris
    PF: Powell
    C: Thompson

    I mean, c’mon.

    Sucked I almost had that exact same lineup — I could’ve joined their mini train

  • scottmsteiner

    @BmoreClutch said...

    That just shows how poor the decision making is at DraftKings. Why would they not push it across the board all at once? It’s a bad look IMO when you have 2 free optimizers complying with the change, and none of the paid sites are.

    They have no legal standing to make sites comply to their request on optimizers or posting optimal lineups. Also, there is a big difference between sites like RotoGrinders/RotoWire and the sites that provide this information behind a paywall.

  • anilprao88

    • 27

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    • Ranked #26

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    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    I understand that this a big problem in cash games, but people who do this in GPPs are just lighting money on fire. Guaranteeing that your lineup is going to be duped at least once and likely many times more than that is a great way to lose a bunch of money in GPPs and I see no reason to dissuade others from playing such lineups in GPPs.

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