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  • natroslezka

    Most of us here like DFS. To which extent do you think DFS and its community is falling apart or coming together? Going away or here to stay?

    I’d like to think that DFS is here to stay. We know it’s a lot of fun; there’s no changing that feeling. I remember that sad day when Draftstreet disappeared without warning. Went to the site to set lineups, and …. done. The new reality set in. I would have to play on a new site that “might” be similar to Draftstreet because they brought in the Draftstreet guys. I’m fine with that now.

    Where do we go from here? Also, no need for pointless negativity, just honest thoughts.

    I would like to say that I hope we are coming together on this because it’s fun, plain and simple. Money is nice, but it’s fun… right?

    Nathan

  • whateverworks_187

    It’s hear to stay. Period. The industry is worth BILLIONS. And, a lot of very smart and rich people have a lot riding on its success. So, there is absolutely no chance that it is going anywhere.

    There could be a moderate risk from the government down the road, but at this point the industry has the money/power to hire an army of lobbyists to protect its interests.

    When it comes to the negativity/whining/complaining about the faux scandal. That’s from outsiders who don’t know anything, or from casual players who lost money and wanted to place blame elsewhere. If they leave it means nothing, because they were out the door anyway. There isn’t 1 big time DFS player quitting, and that speaks volumes.

  • natroslezka

    I really hope it’s here to stay, whateverworks_187. It’s really my great escape after teaching and family life.

  • marcsurfs

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/12/sports/fantasy-sports-draftkings-fanduel-insiders-edge-football.html?_r=0

  • WilliamDeBrigham

    Im pretty sure DFS will not exist as it does today in 3 years… Lots of backlash and lawsuits all over the place as The super large majority of people lose their will be more and more lawsuits… Peopel can’t kid themselves as this is definetely gambling, but maybe their is a compromise somehow just dont know what that would be.

  • sheriffolds

    If the sites dont take some big steps to provide people with security they will be doomed. Poker was worth Billions also……….

  • CeeGee

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    @whateverworks_187 said...

    It’s hear to stay. Period. The industry is worth BILLIONS. And, a lot of very smart and rich people have a lot riding on its success. So, there is absolutely no chance that it is going anywhere.

    There could be a moderate risk from the government down the road, but at this point the industry has the money/power to hire an army of lobbyists to protect its interests.

    When it comes to the negativity/whining/complaining about the faux scandal. That’s from outsiders who don’t know anything, or from casual players who lost money and wanted to place blame elsewhere. If they leave it means nothing, because they were out the door anyway. There isn’t 1 big time DFS player quitting, and that speaks volumes.

    The big time players aren’t quitting?

    I wouldn’t quit either if I had the access and ability to basically print money using “any means” necessary.

    The amount of money the industry is “worth” is irrelevant imo. If the leagues get a bad feeling or negative attention based on their association with DFS they will pull their money (support) quickly as they wont want the integrity of their own game(s) questioned.

  • srolleDFS

    @WilliamDeBrigham said...

    Im pretty sure DFS will not exist as it does today in 3 years… Lots of backlash and lawsuits all over the place as The super large majority of people lose their will be more and more lawsuits… Peopel can’t kid themselves as this is definetely gambling, but maybe their is a compromise somehow just dont know what that would be.

    the gambling vs game of skill “debate” is a legal distinction based around a legal definition of gambling, not the colloquial definition.

    i believe you are referring to the colloquial definition of gambling in your post. i am also a day trader. when describing that activity to a friend, i use the language of gambling and betting to talk about it. it is gambling under the colloquial defintion, but obviously not illegal under the gambling statutes of many state laws.

    take a different example, you host a basketball tournament with an entry fee. the winner keeps these buyin, after you take a cut for hosting it. obviously for all players are risking money with the hope to make more, depending on how the ball bounces. if ur tournament had 4 teams and a $10k buyin, i think you might consider that gambling under the casual definition (i would), but this would be allowed under many state laws, because it is a “game of skill” and not “gambling”.

    when a site CEO says it isnt gambling, he is talking its label under a specific set of state laws, and the arcane legal distinction as it is laid out in those state laws. my read of the situation is that site representatives are sticking to the legal definition in interviews where the other people are definitely using a colloquial definition. maybe they are doing this, because they fear their speech being used out of context by an opportunistic AG, like this dude in florida.

  • WilliamDeBrigham

    Your vocabulary is too much for me, I dont even know what 4 or 5 of the words mean haha… Anyways common sense is also at the heart of all laws, and any attempt to bypass that will eventually be corrected… When it gets to the level of 200000-400000 teams I think it will eventually be hard to defend as a game of skill according to old laws in books which will be challenged and eventually changed. DFS is new compared to when Fantasy exemption was put in, and considering DFS is nothing at all like FF the laws will not apply or will be changed most likely.

  • CeeGee

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    @WilliamDeBrigham said...

    Your vocabulary is too much for me, I dont even know what 4 or 5 of the words mean haha… Anyways common sense is also at the heart of all laws, and any attempt to bypass that will eventually be corrected… When it gets to the level of 200000-400000 teams I think it will eventually be hard to defend as a game of skill according to old laws in books which will be challenged and eventually changed. DFS is new compared to when Fantasy exemption was put in, and considering DFS is nothing at all like FF the laws will not apply or will be changed most likely.

    More entires = less “skill” and way more “luck” to win

    in my opinion of course

  • WilliamDeBrigham

    I have introduced 8-10 freinds to DFS and all have quit after few weeks, only people with gambling problems or the 10-15% winners will stick around long term imo… The rake is extremely high for most players to ever turn a profit unless they somehow hit a big cash.

  • WilliamDeBrigham

    Even that will all the lineup optimizers and info, Beating the rake for the average under 5K bankroll player will be nil at best… So how anybody in industry could honestly say its not gambling or worse than gambling for 90% of the players is fooling themselves

  • WilliamDeBrigham

    Atleast when betting on sports you get a 10% rake total and can even find a reduced rakes on certain days… DFS They take from both sides making it twice as hard

  • srolleDFS

    @WilliamDeBrigham said...

    Atleast when betting on sports you get a 10% rake total and can even find a reduced rakes on certain days… DFS They take from both sides making it twice as hard

    there has been overlay available for every single week of the nfl season. if you would prefer not to look for it yourself, you could try using a site like superlobby.com, which does all of the work for you. the sites are actually giving to both sides, making it twice as easy.

  • eddiemunstor

    @marcsurfs said...

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/12/sports/fantasy-sports-draftkings-fanduel-insiders-edge-football.html?_r=0

    Copied from article:

    “At a private party for DraftKings, one of the biggest daily fantasy websites, Calvert said, he discussed his baseball contest choices with a host, Jon Aguiar, an executive of the site, who suddenly made a quick check on his phone and, to Calvert’s surprise, informed him that his pick of a pitcher was a poor choice because many other players had selected him.

    “I shouldn’t have pulled that up in front of you, ha-ha,” Calvert said Aguiar told him.”

    So according to this guy, Aguiar was able to access this data on his phone at a party. The guy didn’t have someone with security access let him see that data or even have to run a report; he just pulled it up on his phone. This should be VERY concerning for all and regardless of how much ANYONE tries to downplay that data, it’s just the tip of the iceberg of the corruption between those two companies.

    Is it really a stretch of the imagination to ponder whether someone there can edit their lineups after the contests are nearly finished? Or insert a lineup after the fact? It would explain how there are quite a few of the single entry ‘new guy’ wins in GPP.

    Will it still be around? Probably. A fool and his money are soon parted…..

  • slcseas

    There are too many special interests for DFS to continue as it has. I think the best people can hope for is state by state regulation where 25 states get to play other people within their boundaries and the rest are SOL. Whether it’s the billionaire casino lobby, Native American casino lobby, the god hates gambling lobby or the government vice tax, something will torpedo the industry.

    And if not those, then a real scandal that emerges at some point. Imagine how bonkers the media goes the first time the site is hacked and millions of people have their data stolen, or if an executive gets popped for some sort of tax evasion or fraud. The odds just don’t favor fading all of those outcomes.

  • EadesScience

    @whateverworks_187 said...

    There isn’t 1 big time DFS player quitting, and that speaks volumes.

    What about the big time DFS players who work for either DK or FD? So you are saying that they will quit their jobs and continue to play?

  • eddiemunstor

    @EadesScience said...

    What about the big time DFS players who work for either DK or FD? So you are saying that they will quit their jobs and continue to play?

    Depends on just how confident they are that they’ll be able to keep winning as much as they have been. Either way, people will draw their own conclusions.

    For the ones who don’t quit; some will think they’re still using the data to have others play for them or aren’t confident they can win now so they’d rather keep the sure thing.

    For the ones who do quit; some will think they’re still getting information from those that stay or that they’re confident they can still win.

    Personally, I’ve switched over to another site and will avoid DK/FD due to their seemingly cozy relationship with each other. Too much has already gone on to simply take them at their word that everything from here on out will be above board.

  • absolutbronx

    • 2015 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    Don’t see it going anywhere, FD and DK both set records this weekend for number of users on their sites, proving once again there is no such thing as bad publicity.

  • deactivated17417

    My concern is over the lifeblood of DFS: the losers. Nigel admitted in his AMA that the long term retention rate is relatively low. DFS is clearly at the peak exposure point so with new player acquisition costs going up and the rake where it is I feel like the industry could bleed out the losers and cannibalize itself.

    I hope the sites have at least talked about and considered the rake vs retention rate correlation. I would guess 10% rake is an imperfect number for the industry. If they can make up in volume and retention what they lose in margin we might be at a point where they have to consider adjusting the rake.

  • eddiemunstor

    @absolutbronx said...

    Don’t see it going anywhere, FD and DK both set records this weekend for number of users on their sites, proving once again there is no such thing as bad publicity.

    We only know what they tell us.

    I’ve received 3 emails from FD this week, offering freerolls. I’m pulling my $$ out 1 dollar at a time. Some hack there has to process each of them and hopefully they get charged from Paypal for each transaction.

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