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  • Landa501

    I don’t understand this. Why do I see names like BritDevine and Hoop in $1 50/50’s to win 80 cents?

  • SA16

    @tgowen said...

    I’ve always thought that sites could make a system like that work if they simply offered a very limited amount of those type of games.

    For example, offer only one contest per day (maybe a 100 man GPP) at say a $1-$2 entry fee that is only available to individuals who play $10 or less per day. When it fills it fills and better luck getting into it next time. I wouldn’t imagine a game like that would have a huge impact on the overall night’s worth of contests.

    Regardless, with the way things are currently going the sites have little (if any) need to offer something like that. Especially considering the extra work it would take to generate the proper codes into their system.

    Oh sure if you just do it as a separate game type that could possibly work but certainly not i it’s the only thing. It definitely have to be very limited though because if it was “play however much of that you want” and the majority of casual players decided to play it it would have the same affect of killing the games.

  • 866

    Interesting stuff… I don’t play 50/50’s.

    As for the GPPs now.. as someone who doesn’t have “models” and “algorithms” helping me.. I do agree that these people who DO have models and computer programs giving them the lineups, DO have an “advantage”. My results would say so.. my 3-5 $4 lineups and 10-12 .25c lineups in these GPPs just simply cannot contend with these people who are submitting 150 tailored lineups, AGAINST MY 3 AND 5, 10 and 12. It is very difficult.. they are gobbling up a lot of cash spots. These models and algorithms are apparently spot-on many a night, as these same people are gobbling up the cash. It is simply hard for the average player to compete. I aspire to move my way up and be able to win big sums via GPPs. The KEY is the MAX ENTRY.

    YES we are all picking from the same pool.. Yes I do know my sports… Now I still play in the Main Slate GPPs, my 3-4 entries.. But I altered my strategy to playing on that same level, by now “max entering” the .25 GPPs. (50). My results have changed FAR to the better because of the pure volume and wider range of selections I can submit versus a given pool. I came in 2nd and 4th recently in two, and my best finishes were only top 20-ish previously, playing 10 lineups of the max 50. To me, here lies the problem. If you cannot play the same amount of games as others who are max entering in a certain denomination, I feel you are at a big disadvantage, and will lose in the long run.

    Last year in MLB, I came in 4th in a $3 DK GPP, I was so excited… until I realized that I TIED 67 times with someone, for 4th through 71st place… receiving a measly $140 or so instead of the $2000 I was supposed to win. At this time I cannot “afford” to play $450 of $3 contests on one slate. Gotta work my way up via these small stakes GPPs!

  • 866

    Sorry for the rant, but I say… LET EM IN… TRY to beat these guys. You can best em.. put the right guys together on your lineup! They may have computer models “helping” them but they are NOT psychics.. Learn the Games and the players and styles of play and you have a fighting chance in the head-to-head and cash games

  • AlexSonty

    • 382

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    • Blogger of the Month

    The magic models opponents are lazy players making lazy arguments. The RG lineup builder, Court IQ, and Noto’s 1st look has all of the tools you need for that end of the work.

    Just learn how to use them and you will understand that there is an artful end of the game theory that is necessary to beat the rake. Not doing the former and complaining about algorithms makes you a lazy player; not learning to understand perpetuates the lazy argument.

  • tamparoor

    Guess what 2 brothers were in the 25c contest yesterday along with catching them teaming up again in the 3 person contest which they promised they would never do again

  • CaldwellTylerusng94

    @tamparoor said...

    Guess what 2 brothers were in the 25c contest yesterday along with catching them teaming up again in the 3 person contest which they promised they would never do again

  • moped_jones

    @noddy said...

    Not everyone has all day to spend researching like some of the people that enter all the low entry contests. Some people can’t just study more or get better. You need time to do that and some people simply don’t have it. If you don’t think its frustrating for someone who just wants to play for a few bucks has to go up against the people who do this all day and sometimes for a living you better think again.

    Having said that there’s nothing stopping them from entering every contest. Some people, including me, tend to think differently about that type of person and we are allowed to have that opinion of them.

    I don’t see how it’s a “pro’s” problem that YOU don’t have time to do your homework. That would be like complaining about someone that got an A on test that you failed b/c you didn’t study. Not their fault. Not their problem.

    You can dislike any person you like, but in my opinion, your reasoning is pretty juvenile.

  • moped_jones

    @noddy said...

    The solution would be for people to have some integrity and not enter every low buyin contest.

    How about everyone that is better than you isn’t allowed to play?

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @moped_jones said...

    I don’t see how it’s a “pro’s” problem that YOU don’t have time to do your homework. That would be like complaining about someone that got an A on test that you failed b/c you didn’t study. Not their fault. Not their problem.

    You can dislike any person you like, but in my opinion, your reasoning is pretty juvenile.

    What if I told you the student who got an A had no after school responsibilities other than studying while also having a wide array of resources at their disposal to aid them in any challenges they might come across.

    Then I told you that the student that failed not only had to take a part time job after school to help support the family but was then responsible for taking care of their siblings at night. Is it still as simple as not studying?

    The point I’m trying to make is that just like in life, with DFS things aren’t equal so I don’t think it’s fair to act as though they are when conversations like this occur. What I think many people would like to see is a way for casual players and pro players to coexist in a way that allows for casual players to not feel like they are playing a supercomputer every time they decide to play chess. While at the same time understanding that if you want to want to earn the big dollars you have to earn it by taking on the best of the best.

    Instead, what we have is Joe Nobody taking on a group of the smartest people in the room for something at small as a $1 50/50. Is it possible to find a nice middle ground? Probably not, but I don’t think that means the people asking for it are absurd for trying to make it happen.

    In the meantime everyone can just go ahead and keep calling the other side of the fence stupid crybabies and greedy scumbags. It would be nice if that wasn’t the case, but I don’t expect a DFS forum to be the place where the world starts changing.

  • Messiah717

    @tamparoor said...

    Guess what 2 brothers were in the 25c contest yesterday along with catching them teaming up again in the 3 person contest which they promised they would never do again

    Why would you believe anything they say?

  • tamparoor

    I don’t his pathetic excuse last time was I haven’t slept in days it was a honest mistake

  • SelfCharmer

    @tgowen said...

    What if I told you the student who got an A had no after school responsibilities other than studying while also having a wide array of resources at their disposal to aid them in any challenges they might come across.

    Then I told you that the student that failed not only had to take a part time job after school to help support the family but was then responsible for taking care of their siblings at night. Is it still as simple as not studying?

    The point I’m trying to make is that just like in life, with DFS things aren’t equal so I don’t think it’s fair to act as though they are when conversations like this occur. What I think many people would like to see is a way for casual players and pro players to coexist in a way that allows for casual players to not feel like they are playing a supercomputer every time they decide to play chess. While at the same time understanding that if you want to want to earn the big dollars you have to earn it by taking on the best of the best.

    Instead, what we have is Joe Nobody taking on a group of the smartest people in the room for something at small as a $1 50/50. Is it possible to find a nice middle ground? Probably not, but I don’t think that means the people asking for it are absurd for trying to make it happen.

    In the meantime everyone can just go ahead and keep calling the other side of the fence stupid crybabies and greedy scumbags. It would be nice if that wasn’t the case, but I don’t expect a DFS forum to be the place where the world starts changing.

    Is it Student A’s fault that Student B’s living conditions are not optimal. Like in DFS, it is the school’s responsibility to help the student, as it is the sites responsibility to help the newer/casual players.

  • AlexSonty

    • 382

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Blogger of the Month

    @tgowen said...

    What if I told you the student who got an A had no after school responsibilities other than studying while also having a wide array of resources at their disposal to aid them in any challenges they might come across.

    Then I told you that the student that failed not only had to take a part time job after school to help support the family but was then responsible for taking care of their siblings at night. Is it still as simple as not studying?

    The point I’m trying to make is that just like in life, with DFS things aren’t equal so I don’t think it’s fair to act as though they are when conversations like this occur. What I think many people would like to see is a way for casual players and pro players to coexist in a way that allows for casual players to not feel like they are playing a supercomputer every time they decide to play chess. While at the same time understanding that if you want to want to earn the big dollars you have to earn it by taking on the best of the best.

    Instead, what we have is Joe Nobody taking on a group of the smartest people in the room for something at small as a $1 50/50. Is it possible to find a nice middle ground? Probably not, but I don’t think that means the people asking for it are absurd for trying to make it happen.

    In the meantime everyone can just go ahead and keep calling the other side of the fence stupid crybabies and greedy scumbags. It would be nice if that wasn’t the case, but I don’t expect a DFS forum to be the place where the world starts changing.

    No one is forcing you to play, let alone play on DK or FD. FantasyDraft is anything but a shark tank, while the Draft app is daily fantasy on a different, far simpler level.

    And you are not entitled to make money playing DFS. You are entitled to the same rules, treatment, and access to games, but that is it. The results are completely up to the player, in the long run.

    If the time isn’t there, the time isn’t there. There aren’t people in bowling and golf leagues saying guys on other teams shouldn’t practice because not everyone has the same amount of spare time to do so.

    The whole use of the term “pros” unambiguously ignores that this is a game and just as no one is entitled to equal preparation, no one is forced to invest more than that which is proportional to their bankroll and preparation. And no less.

    Why I think it is fair to limit non-GPP games under $10 to 100 per slate is because this is not limiting players’ investments. It just tells those playing 150 to reinvest that $50-$500 in more expensive games or don’t play them at all. We all know what their choice will be. It will raise volume of recreational players because they will find games more easily once the “pros” have hit their limit. We see this now in the final hour before lock.

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @AlexSontySBN said...

    Why I think it is fair to limit non-GPP games under $10 to 100 per slate is because this is not limiting players’ investments.

    If this ever occurred I think most of the complaints would stop.

    Again, I don’t find it as frustrating as most. I’ve been playing long enough to understand what I’m getting myself into. Truthfully, I think small time players are just as much at fault as high stakes players as it pertains to this issue because I believe a majority of small timers look at DFS as an opportunity to get rich as opposed to being casual entertainment. If more of them spent time playing in H2H and other cash games those type of games wouldn’t be as loaded with sharks. Also, sites may be more likely to see the benefit of limiting the amount of games people can play at lower stakes. Instead, as it stands right now there is no benefit to the site to do it since not enough casual players are entering those contests. They are too busy trying to win hundreds of dollars each night.

  • AlexSonty

    • 382

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    • Blogger of the Month

    @tgowen said...

    They are too busy trying to win hundreds of dollars each night.

    Try tens of thousands with $15 investments.

  • MickyD10970

    • 978

      RG Overall Ranking

    @tgowen said...

    . Instead, as it stands right now there is no benefit to the site to do it since not enough casual players are entering those contests. They are too busy trying to win hundreds of dollars each night.

    Or they try them a few times and get their asses handed to them by the “pros” and figure if I’m going to lose I may as well try for the big money.

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @MickyD10970 said...

    Or they try them a few times and get their asses handed to them by the “pros” and figure if I’m going to lose I may as well try for the big money.

    Your right, I think that is exactly what happens. But that is the problem. Things don’t go according to plan during the first week and as a result players make drastic changes.

    I’m not saying cash games are easy to succeed in. I do however, believe that most players think GPP’s give them a better chance to win quality money which is nothing more than a fallacy. For a single day GPP’s provide a chance (much worse than most want to admit) to win big money. Over the long haul I could argue they are nothing more than a long con for most DFS players out there.

    When I first started playing DFS a min cash in a GPP was at least x3 your buy-in (roughly around the top 10% cashed back in those days). Then sites upped it so that more than 20% of players cashed in a GPP and the min cash dropped to x2 (or even less in some cases). What that meant is that most people who cash in a GPP have done nothing more than DU and will likely lose that amount over the course of the next few days. By changing the prize allocation in a way that awards more players (with less) it also meant removing a massive portion of the prize pool that could benefit players in the long run.

    For example, in today’s $1 GPP on FD there is a total of $22,000 in the prize pool. Of that, over $7,200 goes toward the $2 prizes. Being successful in GPP’s has always been dependent on your ability to finish high on the leaderboard. When sites changed the prize allocation it just meant now you have to finish even higher to feel as though you really have something to celebrate.

  • MickyD10970

    • 978

      RG Overall Ranking

    @tgowen said...

    Your right, I think that is exactly what happens. But that is the problem. Things don’t go according to plan during the first week and as a result players make drastic changes.

    I’m not saying cash games are easy to succeed in. I do however, believe that most players think GPP’s give them a better chance to win quality money which is nothing more than a fallacy. For a single day GPP’s provide a chance (much worse than most want to admit) to win big money. Over the long haul I could argue they are nothing more than a long con for most DFS players out there.

    When I first started playing DFS a min cash in a GPP was at least x3 your buy-in (roughly around the top 10% cashed back in those days). Then sites upped it so that more than 20% of players cashed in a GPP and the min cash dropped to x2 (or even less in some cases). What that meant is that most people who cash in a GPP have done nothing more than DU and will likely lose that amount over the course of the next few days. By changing the prize allocation in a way that awards more players (with less) it also meant removing a massive portion of the prize pool that could benefit players in the long run.

    For example, in today’s $1 GPP on FD there is a total of $22,000 in the prize pool. Of that, over $7,200 goes toward the $2 prizes. Being successful in GPP’s has always been dependent on your ability to finish high on the leaderboard. When sites changed the prize allocation it just meant now you have to finish even higher to feel as though you really have something to celebrate.

    Agree with everything you say. I would add that I feel some people treat the GPP’s as cash games. With more people being paid out, it is easier to double or 2 1/2 times your entry fee. If you hit the magic bullet you get the giant payout, if you min cash it pays just as well as 50/50 or head to head win and let’s be real your facing the same players. I may be wrong but it seems the min cash lines for many large GPP’s is similar to 50/50’s and you don’t have to beat 100’s of pros trains.

  • travs424

    @MickyD10970 said...

    I would add that I feel some people treat the GPP’s as cash games. With more people being paid out, it is easier to double or 2 1/2 times your entry fee. If you hit the magic bullet you get the giant payout

    This has been a great topic, people have a lot of different opinions. Just beat the pros, make better lineups, and all the different opinions on what games to play that give you the best chance to win money.

    i think playing GPP’s hoping for a magic bullet probably wont keep you around long.

    The pros have every right to play in any game, but just like adding the beginner games. Sites need to implement a next level of games where players can play against people in the same weight class, not because it is the sites responsibility to help them make money, but because it is in the best interest of the sites to keep players around and grow the dfs population. People that dont see that, dont care if this will be around in 5 years. And i see just by the interest in this topic, people do want this to stay around.

  • biged263835

    Late to the party, but I’ve been doing this for years. I run the same lineup in multiple low stakes cash games, and fire it off in a higher stakes GPP.

    Why? Because there is a lot of dead money in those low stakes cash games. Scroll to the bottom of the final standings of 1 dollar 50/50 and you’ll see players who got scratched mid day, people who may have won a ticket to a 1 dollar game and didn’t bother filling them out etc.

    When you are firing off $200 a night or into the thousands, that extra 5 percent edge of dead money means a lot to your bankroll. It’s been my experience that people don’t take their 1 dollar lineups as seriously as a 300 dollar Monster GPP.

    I treat DFS like I do poker. I’m a good player at both, not an expert or a pro. When I go play poker, I’m not going to sit at a high stakes table. Instead, I look for the loosest low stakes table I can where every player calls no matter what they have. I sit back, play correctly and maybe once or twice an hour I’ll have a winning hand. That’s basically what those 1 dollar cash games are, a bunch of loose players who aren’t playing properly.

  • edro990

    Look folks here’s the cold hard facts, DFS is very popular and very competitive. Life changing money is out there and there are a lot of people lining up for their share. It has evolved into an industry that allows it’s best players to make a healthy living off it. As in anything in life, to be competitive one must put in the necessary time and effort to improve their skills and competitive standing. This is not “everybody gets a trophy” anymore. The ones who put the time and effort into learning and improving their skills will be the ones who succeed over the long run. If you don’t like MME, then play single, 3 max, 10 max entry games. The playing field is never going to be level skill-wise, but nothing else in life is either. You can always find like minded individuals and play private games. People who don’t want to put the time and effort into becoming better need to understand that this a very competitive arena and you have to work at it to succeed, plain and simple.

  • Messiah717

    @edro990 said...

    Look folks here’s the cold hard facts, DFS is very popular and very competitive. Life changing money is out there and there are a lot of people lining up for their share. It has evolved into an industry that allows it’s best players to make a healthy living off it. As in anything in life, to be competitive one must put in the necessary time and effort to improve their skills and competitive standing. This is not “everybody gets a trophy” anymore. The ones who put the time and effort into learning and improving their skills will be the ones who succeed over the long run. If you don’t like MME, then play single, 3 max, 10 max entry games. The playing field is never going to be level skill-wise, but nothing else in life is either. You can always find like minded individuals and play private games. People who don’t want to put the time and effort into becoming better need to understand that this a very competitive arena and you have to work at it to succeed, plain and simple.

    The problem is that for too long the sites catered to the sharks while marketing the product as average joes playing the game against each other. Keep reeling in the fish so the sharks stayed fed. It’s only when the cover was blown off of what was really going on that we get these hundred narratives. People leave the game all together or get frustrated because they have lives, jobs and families that don’t give them an opportunity to do 8 hours of DFS research a day.

  • moped_jones

    @tgowen said...

    What if I told you the student who got an A had no after school responsibilities other than studying while also having a wide array of resources at their disposal to aid them in any challenges they might come across.

    Then I told you that the student that failed not only had to take a part time job after school to help support the family but was then responsible for taking care of their siblings at night. Is it still as simple as not studying?

    The point I’m trying to make is that just like in life, with DFS things aren’t equal so I don’t think it’s fair to act as though they are when conversations like this occur. What I think many people would like to see is a way for casual players and pro players to coexist in a way that allows for casual players to not feel like they are playing a supercomputer every time they decide to play chess. While at the same time understanding that if you want to want to earn the big dollars you have to earn it by taking on the best of the best.

    Instead, what we have is Joe Nobody taking on a group of the smartest people in the room for something at small as a $1 50/50. Is it possible to find a nice middle ground? Probably not, but I don’t think that means the people asking for it are absurd for trying to make it happen.

    In the meantime everyone can just go ahead and keep calling the other side of the fence stupid crybabies and greedy scumbags. It would be nice if that wasn’t the case, but I don’t expect a DFS forum to be the place where the world starts changing.

    So the person that got the A should purposely get a D b/c things are harder for other people? That’s absurd. Almost as absurd as you thinking DFS owes you anything other than DFS.

    I have a full time job. A girlfriend (who is now my fiance) and I find time to do my research. Quit crying “no fair” and do your homework. If you are bad at this………….PRACTICE. If you don’t want to put in the effort, at least be grown up enough not to complain about the people who do. I sucked at DFS but got much better over time. But I never once complained b/c other people were better at it. There’s information all over the place (even the site YOU ARE ON RIGHT NOW is full of very helpful information) but people would rather come here and complain about the “sharks”.

    The most “fair” games on here are the single entry. Everyone gets one bullet. The whiners need to go play those. Or play the free games since it’s “just for fun” anyways.

  • moped_jones

    @SelfCharmer said...

    Is it Student A’s fault that Student B’s living conditions are not optimal. Like in DFS, it is the school’s responsibility to help the student, as it is the sites responsibility to help the newer/casual players.

    You beat me to it. I promise I wrote mine before reading this, lol. (I pretty much said the same thing only with much less maturity)

    God forbid the casual players go play the free games (since they are casual).

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @moped_jones said...

    So the person that got the A should purposely get a D b/c things are harder for other people? That’s absurd. Almost as absurd as you thinking DFS owes you anything other than DFS.

    I have a full time job. A girlfriend (who is now my fiance) and I find time to do my research. Quit crying “no fair” and do your homework. If you are bad at this………….PRACTICE. If you don’t want to put in the effort, at least be grown up enough not to complain about the people who do. I sucked at DFS but got much better over time. But I never once complained b/c other people were better at it. There’s information all over the place (even the site YOU ARE ON RIGHT NOW is full of very helpful information) but people would rather come here and complain about the “sharks”.

    The most “fair” games on here are the single entry. Everyone gets one bullet. The whiners need to go play those. Or play the free games since it’s “just for fun” anyways.

    Not sure when I said DFS owed me anything, when I cried “no fair,” or when I said those who put in the time and effort shouldn’t be rewarded.

    I do recall when I said small time players are just as much at fault as anyone else for the frustrations people are facing, but it’s ok if you want to ignore that post. Also, if you want to ignore the part where I said it would be nice if a middle ground could be found that balances massive prize pools and the opportunity for people to compete with those of a similar skill set then I guess I’ll let that slide too. Even though I basically countered my own idea by commenting that because small timers are basically greedy a premise like that could never be successful.

    Instead, I’ll just accept that I am essentially a close minded person who only wants everything given to me.

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