INDUSTRY FORUM

Comments

  • kyastanley1

    Is it illegal on Draftkings and Fanduel to be part of a DFS syndicate? I am curious about this because I normally play the NBA GPP contests under $10 and I am always seeing Mazwa/Ragingphillip at the top of the leaderboards on just about every multi-entry contest. They have a ton of duplicate lineups on Fanduel and Draftkings and eat up alot of the profits of the contest. For instance, tonight in the DK $8 late slate NBA contest they tied for first and had the same exact lineup. Of the 300 lineups they entered they entered separately, they cashed 125 of them and 101 of them were duplicate lineups. I have seen this multiple times on Fanduel and DK each night where they use the same core of players and their lineups are at the top of the contests. Just wondering if this against the rules on DK and Fanduel or do both sites not care about what they are doing because both users fill their contests with max entries? Looks like that Mazwaa and Ragingphillip are not on Rotogrinders so it is hard to see their daily activity in contests.

  • mtdurham

    Note: I’m Editing my original response: it was like 630 AM and i glossed over the post…

    Yeah if this is GPP, there is no advantage to be had whatsoever by entering duplicate lineups….

    I just assumed you were talking about one of those Giant Double Ups, a bunch of head to heads or something…. in cash games there is a giant problem with people all entering the same lineups..it’s why i dont recommend trying to get good at cash as you’ll need to get REALLY good to ever become near break even.

    If they are entering duplicate lineups that’s just not going to help their bottom line…. like think about it…. if you were playing bingo with a teammate…would you want the same numbers he’s got so you can split the prize? Or would you want at least one number to be different to double your chances?

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    If they were officially working together, why would they have any duplicate lineups? That would defeat the purpose. As to your question, working together to circumvent the entry caps is definitely a no-no and not allowed. People who talk about DFS and discuss good plays in a slate is not – even if their lineups end up having a lot of the same players. Maybe these guys are just really good, high volume players. Who knows.

  • bhdevault

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  • kyastanley1

    Thanks for the response. I think mazwa and ragingphillip do circumvent the entry caps to maximize their opportunities to cash high. I will give them credit they are really good using this tactic. I have read some past RG forum threads and they are known for circumventing the entry caps. Here is a previous RG post below about them from a couple of years ago. Fanduel and Draftkings have not taken any action against them.

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/mazwa-ragingphillip-colluded-to-circumvent-150-lu-limit-won-millionaire-maker-1368653?page=4

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    @kyastanley1 said...

    Thanks for the response. I think mazwa and ragingphillip do circumvent the entry caps to maximize their opportunities to cash high. I will give them credit they are really good using this tactic. I have read some past RG forum threads and they are known for circumventing the entry caps. Here is a previous RG post below about them from a couple of years ago. Fanduel and Draftkings have not taken any action against them.

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/mazwa-ragingphillip-colluded-to-circumvent-150-lu-limit-won-millionaire-maker-1368653?page=4

    Unless you have irrefutable proof, you should be careful about smearing players’ names. And I’m pretty sure DK and FD have better investigative abilities than any of us. Just my thought having never looked at this issue myself.

  • mtdurham

    I would just say this…. In order to win any real money in DFS you need to be finishing in the top ~3 of GPP on a more frequent than average basis…

    Like if there are 10,000 entries you need to be finishing in the top 3 more often than 3 times out of 10,000…. how often? IDK… 6 times? 7? 8? I dont know the exact number… i just know in order to show profit in thelong run you need to be finishing HIGH… the cashes along the way are just meant to keep you afloat until you finally bink one…

    So if you think about it this way… you need to try to put together the optimal or near optimal lineup on a given slate… so ultimately if you focus on what YOU are doing and the lineups YOU are entering then what other people are doing matters a whole lot less…

    Yes its annoying that people might be colluding but this isnt like poker where people are running the old “best hand trick” and smoking you out of the pot and dividing up the money afterwards…

    Ultimately no one wants to hear “make better lineups” but it really is the whole key to succeeding in GPP….

    Now cash games its a totally valid gripe IMO…. totally, 100% valid… because cash is different… i should only have to come in the top ~50% (IGNORING RAKE) in a double up… but when everyone colludes then in reality you need to be a lot better than the “average” player entering because the top players are essentially multi entering by colluding with optimized lineups….

  • bigez952

    @kyastanley1 said...

    Thanks for the response. I think mazwa and ragingphillip do circumvent the entry caps to maximize their opportunities to cash high. I will give them credit they are really good using this tactic. I have read some past RG forum threads and they are known for circumventing the entry caps. Here is a previous RG post below about them from a couple of years ago. Fanduel and Draftkings have not taken any action against them.

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/mazwa-ragingphillip-colluded-to-circumvent-150-lu-limit-won-millionaire-maker-1368653?page=4

    I agree with sochoice in that if you don’t have rock solid proof they work together or even know each other you shouldn’t come onto a public forum and saying they are “knowen” for circumventing entry caps.

    My guess is that there is 0 proof of this or it is totally untrue as DK would have banned both accounts through an investigation years ago. It always frustrates people that DK “isn’t doing anything” since they have a policy not to comment on their investigations. Chances are they did an investigation and found nothing against the rules going on.

    Anyone working together to circumvent entry limits in a GPP would never have duplicated lineups so your claim is a huge red flag when you say they tied for first. Most likely they both use the same subscription package or projection model to build their lineups which gets them onto similar plays. Using projection models and subscription research information isn’t against the rules or else everyone here on the RG site would be in trouble.

  • Trappist1

    Yes. it is against the terms and conditions to have syndicate play and collusion. How often the platforms investigate and enforce their terms and conditions we do not know. As transparency is sorely lacking in DFS. Obviously if players feel syndicate play is going on and their concerns are not addressed they will move away from these platforms to a place where game integrity is taken seriously. My suggestion is to send your concerns to the particular platform and the more people that do this then they can look into it.

    The problem with posting these sort of concerns in a forum is that people will give you varying opinions. But no one has so far said what is the investigative technique used to identify syndicate play and collusion. Only the platforms can tell us what their investigative technique is to ensure game integrity and whether they are serious or not.

  • mark_james1985

    Scripting, Scraping, Hacking…etc etc

  • BigA

  • IvanCalderon

    @mtdurham said...

    I would just say this…. In order to win any real money in DFS you need to be finishing in the top ~3 of GPP on a more frequent than average basis…

    Like if there are 10,000 entries you need to be finishing in the top 3 more often than 3 times out of 10,000…. how often? IDK… 6 times? 7? 8? I dont know the exact number… i just know in order to show profit in thelong run you need to be finishing HIGH… the cashes along the way are just meant to keep you afloat until you finally bink one…

    So if you think about it this way… you need to try to put together the optimal or near optimal lineup on a given slate… so ultimately if you focus on what YOU are doing and the lineups YOU are entering then what other people are doing matters a whole lot less…

    Yes its annoying that people might be colluding but this isnt like poker where people are running the old “best hand trick” and smoking you out of the pot and dividing up the money afterwards…

    Ultimately no one wants to hear “make better lineups” but it really is the whole key to succeeding in GPP….

    Now cash games its a totally valid gripe IMO…. totally, 100% valid… because cash is different… i should only have to come in the top ~50% (IGNORING RAKE) in a double up… but when everyone colludes then in reality you need to be a lot better than the “average” player entering because the top players are essentially multi entering by colluding with optimized lineups….

    I wonder why people just don’t go on Fantasy Draft and play h2h rake free up to 175 per contest. Play one person, beat them, take their money. Simple concept. No trickery. Best man wins

  • tomac

    @sochoice said...

    Unless you have irrefutable proof, you should be careful about smearing players’ names. And I’m pretty sure DK and FD have better investigative abilities than any of us. Just my thought having never looked at this issue myself.

    Just to further this discussion, not looking to argue. As a player, why should we need irrefutable proof? If we have a sample size of data that shows another player or players are potentially breaking rules to create an advantage, shouldn’t we make those concerns public? If other users have data sets that corroborate what OP is seeing, wouldn’t that help build his case?

  • bigez952

    @tomac said...

    Just to further this discussion, not looking to argue. As a player, why should we need irrefutable proof? If we have a sample size of data that shows another player or players are potentially breaking rules to create an advantage, shouldn’t we make those concerns public? If other users have data sets that corroborate what OP is seeing, wouldn’t that help build his case?

    Smearing people in a public forum with a hunch and or limited data is not something anyone should do. You should provide whatever guess or limited data you have to the sites as should anyone else holding on to such data for them to conduct an investigation. If they find people breaking the rules they will handle it but in my opinion that does have much a place on a public forum when it could be flat out wrong or include misleading information.

    However I do think it would be nice if sites were a little more transparent with their investigations. Maybe not give out names or personal information but something to show that their investigations are working and complaints are not falling on deaf ears like many people believe.

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