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  • lpdev

    So I’m enjoying my night winning 1st in the Four Seamer and several other contest with a lineup having Betts, Benintendi, and Martinez that all homered prior to the delay. Then all of a sudden with the PPD all my points from their homers got wiped out and their score goes to zero. I get that they can’t accrue points when the game is played in the future. Why do the points they accrued prior the delay get wiped out. That seems like a tacky way to handle things. It seems more than fair that I should be allowed the points that were accrued prior to the PPD. Any thoughts? I don’t think I have ever been this frustrated about the way something is handled in DFS….

  • lpdev

    @picklepicklepickle said...

    MLB should count the stats. MLB should pick up game from point it left off and count the stats/score. And then DFS could easily follow. until then………

    This is on point. My beef is with the explanation from DraftKings that this policy exists because it’s the most fair for all. That’s not the case. What is actually more fair is players getting credit for points that they earn in the games played on a given slate. It’s less fair to exclude these stats in both the case of MLB and in DFS. In fact they changed the way this was handled for playoff games back in 2008 because it is less fair. I don’t imagine there would be a huge uproar from people complaining that someone beat them in DFS because their opponent’s players that only got to play one inning outscored their own players. This would be a ridiculous complaint. Without the MLB taking the correct course of action and counting these stats it makes it more difficult for DFS to do the fair thing. I would assume they would need a third party (perhaps the MLB) to bless the stats for DFS purposes. This scenario doesn’t come up often and it’s probably not worth time and effort to change the policy at this point. I’m ok with that reasoning. But I will not agree that it’s more fair to all to throw these stats out.

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    This is where I think you are wrong. I imaging there would be a tremendous uproar over this. People know when stats count and when they dont. I would never play on a site that rewarded points to players in a PPD game

  • lpdev

    @TnRiddles said...

    This is where I think you are wrong. I imaging there would be a tremendous uproar over this. People know when stats count and when they dont. I would never play on a site that rewarded points to players in a PPD game

    Ultimately the MLB should suspend the game in this scenario and not postpone it. That’s the most fair way of handling it. Whether or not the MLB wants to resume or start the game over doesn’t change the fact that the players participated in a game on the slate and accrued fantasy points.

  • BigRay

    @lpdev said...

    Ultimately the MLB should suspend the game in this scenario and not postpone it. That’s the most fair way of handling it. Whether or not the MLB wants to resume or start the game over doesn’t change the fact that the players participated in a game on the slate and accrued fantasy points.

    MLB doesn’t change very quickly and the rules for when to suspended/PPD games have been around as long as I remember. This was the expected out come based on those rules. DFS should only use stats that MLB provides and under their rules the stats don’t count and are washed away.
    Also, the weather report from the morning up until game time remained the same….it could start raining soon after 1st pitch. I chose to fade and it worked out for me. You played and it didn’t work out for you.

  • lpdev

    @BigRay said...

    MLB doesn’t change very quickly and the rules for when to suspended/PPD games have been around as long as I remember. This was the expected out come based on those rules. DFS should only use stats that MLB provides and under their rules the stats don’t count and are washed away.
    Also, the weather report from the morning up until game time remained the same….it could start raining soon after 1st pitch. I chose to fade and it worked out for me. You played and it didn’t work out for you.

    It wouldn’t have really worked out for me even if the stats counted. I understand DraftKings policy and why it is that way. I’m now just voicing my opinion. I think it would be a positive change for both the MLB and DFS to suspend games in this scenario and not scrap the stats. There are definitely other things to think about since rosters can change before the game is continued. Could teams take advantage of this scenario with their SP situation? For MLB purposes these things may cause the situation to deviate from pure fairness. For DFS purposes it’s 100% fair to get credit for fantasy points scored in these games. They are getting wiped out on a technicality. Since MLB wants to start the game over, they don’t need to record the stats as ‘official’ mlb stats. That doesn’t mean the stats don’t exist and they can’t be confirmed for accuracy. In fact, I’m sure during the delay any plays in question were actually reviewed and confirmed for the game assuming that it might continue on. Naturally everyone that isn’t willing to take the risk based on the current DK policy comes out to defend their stance. But would you really feel that you were treated unfairly if the policy was the other way around to begin with?

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @lpdev said...

    But would you really feel that you were treated unfairly if the policy was the other way around to begin with?

    I certainly would based on the actual MLB rules.

  • lpdev

    @TnRiddles said...

    I certainly would based on the actual MLB rules.

    Awe man, couldn’t convince you. Fair enough. If everyone always agreed with me and had the same opinions on everything, the world would be quite a boring place. Good luck in tonight’s contests.

  • frugal

    @DefinitelyMiami said...

    Super inconsistent, if your player scores points let us have credit for them. Just like we should be able to swap out players in a postponed game when the first pitch wasn’t even thrown

    Not sure how I feel about the wiped out scores. However, agree 100% on the 2nd point, games postponed before the first pitch is thrown should allow players to late swap.

  • bigez952

    @frugal said...

    Not sure how I feel about the wiped out scores. However, agree 100% on the 2nd point, games postponed before the first pitch is thrown should allow players to late swap.

    How would that even work? Most games go into a delay first for sometimes a couple of hours so you could only late swap off games with weather issues on the east coast that also has available west coast games on that slate. I really don’t think I would like that since it would screw up ownership %‘s with no one fearing the weather on the East Coast games so they come in at normal ownership but when they get rained out the remaining west coast games are now at elevated ownership.

    I like the way it is in that you can take shots and play good offences with question weather at a low ownership knowing if the game plays you can get a leg up. But also by doing so you fully understand you could take a 0 and be dead if it gets PPD.

    But the real reason why DK or any site would never even consider doing this as it would open up a can of worms to be a total nightmare for the sites. In the social media world you know there would be a situation where a game gets PPD at 9:01pm and people are instantly aware of it via Twitter or other form of social media. However this info doesn’t get to DK until 9:11 which is 1 minute past the last game locking. I would only imagine that would create a shit storm of users complaining they saw the news prior to the final game locking and didn’t get the opportunity to adjust their rosters so they want refunds.

  • dolphinkick182

    @FantasyDraftSupport said...

    Thanks!

    As of now we will not be implementing late swap for NBA.

    Why is it that DSF sites are so resistant to allowing late swap for the NBA even though they allow it in just about every sport? The NBA is just about the only sport that doesn’t require a starting line-up before game time, although they do have to report injuries, they don’t have to report the severity or whether or not it would require the player to miss time (FYI coach Kerr publicly stated that “if a player tells me he has a hangnail, he goes on the injury report with a finger injury”, because he hates the rule). You pretty much have to wait to see if the player comes out in a suit or a jersey, and that’s dependent on if they even got on the plane? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, I’ve lost just slightly more than I’ve benefitted from late scratches. I’m just really curious as to why this is such protected thing in the DFS industry as a whole.

    And I understand that you don’t’ speak for all DFS site, but what’s your reasoning? DK and FD can feel free to weigh in too!

  • Njsum1

    @dolphinkick182 said...

    And I understand that you don’t’ speak for all DFS site, but what’s your reasoning

    One of the reps from the sites can correct me if I’m wrong, yet I believe the reason is that late swap in NBA greatly benefits pros. Also the average player doesn’t want to spend all night reoptimizing lineups just to compete. It’s not just checking an alert in NBA. There’s a whole thread on this when DK first went late swap.

    If the sites can find a way to unlock only the late scratched players so people can’t backload lineups and make “news driven” lineups I wouldn’t mind late swap. Otherwise I have little interest in redoing all my lineups throughout the night to reoptimize them based on news. For that is the only way to compete in a multi entry late swap tourney. I’ve done much better in NBA since DK got rid of late swap. I’ll deal with occasional scratch until the sites can find a way to unlock only the late scratched player.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Njsum1 said...

    yet I believe the reason is that late swap in NBA greatly benefits pros. Also the average player doesn’t want to spend all night reoptimizing lineups just to compete. It’s not just checking an alert in NBA. There’s a whole thread on this when DK first went late swap.

    Bingo. The top players WILL re-do their lineups, even if a player isn’t scratched, constantly updating them in the optimal way. I’m fairly confident a VERY small percentage of people would use late swap to it’s full advantage.

    Step back and think about it. Would you REALLY use it in that way? I know I wouldn’t want to sit around my pc all night, re-optimizing my lineups. Most players only think about it when their player gets late scratched, they don’t think about the times it benefits them OR when there are no late scratches yet still don’t use late swap to better their lineup.

  • DefinitelyMiami

    @bhdevault said...

    Bingo. The top players WILL re-do their lineups, even if a player isn’t scratched, constantly updating them in the optimal way. I’m fairly confident a VERY small percentage of people would use late swap to it’s full advantage.

    Step back and think about it. Would you REALLY use it in that way? I know I wouldn’t want to sit around my pc all night, re-optimizing my lineups. Most players only think about it when their player gets late scratched, they don’t think about the times it benefits them OR when there are no late scratches yet still don’t use late swap to better their lineup.

    We would all use it that way. Why is it so much harder to pay attention when gambling on nba dfs? The families of those of us who play mlb dfs must really miss us considering late swap is allowed 🙄

  • DefinitelyMiami

    @bigez952 said...

    How would that even work? Most games go into a delay first for sometimes a couple of hours so you could only late swap off games with weather issues on the east coast that also has available west coast games on that slate. I really don’t think I would like that since it would screw up ownership %‘s with no one fearing the weather on the East Coast games so they come in at normal ownership but when they get rained out the remaining west coast games are now at elevated ownership.

    I like the way it is in that you can take shots and play good offences with question weather at a low ownership knowing if the game plays you can get a leg up. But also by doing so you fully understand you could take a 0 and be dead if it gets PPD.

    But the real reason why DK or any site would never even consider doing this as it would open up a can of worms to be a total nightmare for the sites. In the social media world you know there would be a situation where a game gets PPD at 9:01pm and people are instantly aware of it via Twitter or other form of social media. However this info doesn’t get to DK until 9:11 which is 1 minute past the last game locking. I would only imagine that would create a shit storm of users complaining they saw the news prior to the final game locking and didn’t get the opportunity to adjust their rosters so they want refunds.

    Lock the players when the game starts it really is that simple. Games lock when they start like in all other forms of gambling. If DK needs to hire more people to monitor every game so be it. When you pay your entry fee you deserve the opportunity to select players until their game actually starts

  • bigez952

    @DefinitelyMiami said...

    Lock the players when the game starts it really is that simple. Games lock when they start like in all other forms of gambling. If DK needs to hire more people to monitor every game so be it. When you pay your entry fee you deserve the opportunity to select players until their game actually starts

    They would have to hire people to work around the clock and watch every game for every sport and manually lock every single slate. Not saying that is impossible but sounds like a headache. Anytime you introduce that much manually operation to a slate running properly your going to run into issues of someone not locking the game at the proper time.

    I have played the MLB nearly everyday for the last 3 seasons and I would much rather see costs and rake go down for Draftkings then them spending thousands of dollars in manual labor just so I can late swap off a rain game once a month that I liked.

  • BigRay

    @DefinitelyMiami said...

    Lock the players when the game starts it really is that simple. Games lock when they start like in all other forms of gambling. If DK needs to hire more people to monitor every game so be it. When you pay your entry fee you deserve the opportunity to select players until their game actually starts

    I agree with this. The main problem, late swap or not, is that NBA games generally don’t start at the announced time. For example, a game that has a start time listed at 7 pm, won’t actually tip-off until 12-15 min after 7pm. That is why the news of who is sitting comes so close to lock. MLB, first pitch is within a minute of lock. NFL, kick-off is by 5 min. after the hour. Unfortunately, i think most people don’t want to have to monitor the situation for that 12- 15 min. every night.

  • tomac

    @bhdevault said...

    Bingo. The top players WILL re-do their lineups, even if a player isn’t scratched, constantly updating them in the optimal way. I’m fairly confident a VERY small percentage of people would use late swap to it’s full advantage.

    Step back and think about it. Would you REALLY use it in that way? I know I wouldn’t want to sit around my pc all night, re-optimizing my lineups. Most players only think about it when their player gets late scratched, they don’t think about the times it benefits them OR when there are no late scratches yet still don’t use late swap to better their lineup.

    Yes, I would really use it that way. I have this great new invention called a cell phone, which happens to be on my person at almost all times. Even when I am enjoying family time, I get this thing called a push notification that alerts me of late injury news. I peek at my phone, slide my finger over to this thing called an app, and in less than 2 minutes, my injured player is out of my lineup and replaced by someone whose matchup I researched pre-contest lock.

    This is simple:

    Will I beat the “pros” who run opitmizers in these instances on occasion? Yes.
    Will I ever win money in NBA with a 0? No.

  • bigez952

    @BigRay said...

    I agree with this. The main problem, late swap or not, is that NBA games generally don’t start at the announced time. For example, a game that has a start time listed at 7 pm, won’t actually tip-off until 12-15 min after 7pm. That is why the news of who is sitting comes so close to lock. MLB, first pitch is within a minute of lock. NFL, kick-off is by 5 min. after the hour. Unfortunately, i think most people don’t want to have to monitor the situation for that 12- 15 min. every night.

    People don’t work for free and you would actually be willing to pay higher rake to cover the costs of having DK staff up enough to manually watch every game. Plus as a user talk about it being frustrating never knowing when lock will actually occur. Would DK just provide an estimate saying this game will lock at 7:05 and it could happen randomly at any time between 7:00 and 7:20? I know I don’t have 15 TV’s to have every game on live so I know exactly when games start so I can see that being very frustrating making lineup edits that I think would go through but don’t since the slate just locked on me 5 seconds before.

  • tomac

    @bigez952 said...

    People don’t work for free and you would actually be willing to pay higher rake to cover the costs of having DK staff up enough to manually watch every game. Plus as a user talk about it being frustrating never knowing when lock will actually occur. Would DK just provide an estimate saying this game will lock at 7:05 and it could happen randomly at any time between 7:00 and 7:20. I know I don’t have 15 TV’s to have every game on live so I know exactly when games start so I can see that being very frustrating making lineup edits that I think would go through but don’t since the slate just locked on me 5 seconds before.

    NBA games start 10 minutes after scheduled time on the dot.

    7 pm games tip at 7:10. Starting these games at the correct time would alleviate a significant portion of the injury/illness late swap issue, assuming you can hold off the onslaught of the family for another 10 minutes.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @tomac said...

    Yes, I would really use it that way. I have this great new invention called a cell phone, which happens to be on my person at almost all times. Even when I am enjoying family time, I get this thing called a push notification that alerts me of late injury news. I peek at my phone, slide my finger over to this thing called an app, and in less than 2 minutes, my injured player is out of my lineup and replaced by someone whose matchup I researched pre-contest lock.

    This is simple:

    Will I beat the “pros” who run opitmizers in these instances on occasion? Yes.
    Will I ever win money in NBA with a 0? No.

    I was not talking about in an instance of injured players. Yes, we would all use it to replace injured players or late scratches.

    I was saying, the top players WILL use it to their full advantage even when they do not have an injured player. They will replace players in sub optimal lineups, making that lineup have potential while the majority of the users will sit on their lineups.

    Maybe I’m not explaining it clear enough. Basically late swap DOES give a huge advantage to the sharper players, something people discount.

    Not to mention how many times a late scratch helps you. I know for a fact it helped me last year far more than it hurt me. If you don’t have ‘the player’ that is a surprise late scratch, you get an immediate advantage over those who do. Another factor people don’t pay attention to.

    Sorry, it’s always going to be divided. Some want late swap, some don’t. I bet it’s much closer to a 50/50 split then most realize. I also bet it’s a very LOW percentage of who would use it daily (non late scratch slates).

  • bigez952

    @tomac said...

    NBA games start 10 minutes after scheduled time on the dot.

    7 pm games tip at 7:10. Starting these games at the correct time would alleviate a significant portion of the injury/illness late swap issue, assuming you can hold off the onslaught of the family for another 10 minutes.

    I would have no issue with adjusting the time if it was 100% always 10 minutes after the current lock. I was more responding to the people that think DK should hire people to manually watch every game so they can push a lock button when the tip off occurs so the players would never really know in advance when the lock occurs. If they wanted to move it back a little and have the time posted all day and stick to it I would be fine with that.

  • tomac

    @bhdevault said...

    I was not talking about in an instance of injured players. Yes, we would all use it to replace injured players or late scratches.

    I was saying, the top players WILL use it to their full advantage even when they do not have an injured player. They will replace players in sub optimal lineups, making that lineup have potential while the majority of the users will sit on their lineups.

    Maybe I’m not explaining it clear enough. Basically late swap DOES give a huge advantage to the sharper players, something people discount.

    Not to mention how many times a late scratch helps you. I know for a fact it helped me last year far more than it hurt me. If you don’t have ‘the player’ that is a surprise late scratch, you get an immediate advantage over those who do. Another factor people don’t pay attention to.

    Sorry, it’s always going to be divided. Some want late swap, some don’t. I bet it’s much closer to a 50/50 split then most realize. I also bet it’s a very LOW percentage of who would use it daily (non late scratch slates).

    No, I understood your point.

    I use it that way in every sport that has it. From my phone in 10 minutes or less. I “optimize” my lineups late when my early guys dud, or I try to anticipate who a H2H opponent has by remaining salary, etc. You would have much better ground to stand on if there wasn’t late swap in just about every other sport.

    So, so we not care about the “pros” optimizing their lineups in those other sports?

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @tomac said...

    No, I understood your point.

    I use it that way in every sport that has it. From my phone in 10 minutes or less. I “optimize” my lineups late when my early guys dud, or I try to anticipate who a H2H opponent has by remaining salary, etc. You would have much better ground to stand on if there wasn’t late swap in just about every other sport.

    So, so we not care about the “pros” optimizing their lineups in those other sports?

    Then Tomac, well done. I am betting you are in the low percentage of players that do use it to it’s full advantage.

    I can tell you, I’m a solid player who has had success in DFS and even I don’t use late swap to it’s full advantage. Definitely a weakness in my game.

  • tomac

    @bhdevault said...

    Then Tomac, well done. I am betting you are in the low percentage of players that do use it to it’s full advantage.

    I can tell you, I’m a solid player who has had success in DFS and even I don’t use late swap to it’s full advantage. Definitely a weakness in my game.

    I’d be happy to walk through the process with you.

  • dolphinkick182

    @Njsum1 said...

    Also the average player doesn’t want to spend all night reoptimizing lineups just to compete.

    I’ve seen this argument before, but why it’s it they will want to for MLB but not for NBA? Why for NFL but not for NBA? Do the top players not continuously optimize for their MLB or NFL LU’s? If not, why don’t they do it for these sports but we assume they’d be all over it for NBA slates? This argument makes no sense. Fact is, if you spend any sort of money playing DFS, you are checking your LU’s, family time or not. I know people profess not too but I believe they do or they played a quarter or a dollar LU and it isn’t a big deal. The NBA is the only sport that does not require a starting LU pregame, yet if the only major DFS sport that doesn’t offer late swap.

    OP, i do apoloigize, I did not meant to hijack your post. It just seemed a good opportunity to get an answer to this question since a Rep was answering a question.

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