INDUSTRY FORUM

Comments

  • lpdev

    So I’m enjoying my night winning 1st in the Four Seamer and several other contest with a lineup having Betts, Benintendi, and Martinez that all homered prior to the delay. Then all of a sudden with the PPD all my points from their homers got wiped out and their score goes to zero. I get that they can’t accrue points when the game is played in the future. Why do the points they accrued prior the delay get wiped out. That seems like a tacky way to handle things. It seems more than fair that I should be allowed the points that were accrued prior to the PPD. Any thoughts? I don’t think I have ever been this frustrated about the way something is handled in DFS….

  • Njsum1

    @dolphinkick182 said...

    This argument makes no sense.

    I was simply answering your question as to why late swap is offered for mlb and nfl and not NBA, not offering an opinion on whether I agree or not. Yet, if you want to pull me into this argument, it actually makes perfect sense. Yet people often will not see the sense in something they disagree with, so I doubt this explanation will be worth my time. But here goes anyway…

    NFL is once a week, where most sports fans/DFS players are spending the day watching football anyway. Those with families and without. It’s not a big inconvenience for your casual player to make swaps, since he/she is probably following news for their season long teams as well. Yes pros can swap on and off chalk in certain lineups after the 1pm games depending on how their lineups are performing, yet average players will do this as well. It’s only once a week and they’re watching the games anyway. And its simple swaps (1v1 2v2). People also research/prepare lineups all week for nfl and there are only 17 regular season slates, so it’s not like NBA or MLB where you get 200 more slates to smooth out the bad variance if you get stuck with a late scratch. Things may not even out over the course of 17 weeks. So late swap benefits everyone evenly enough in NFL, and makes for a better experience for everyone.

    MLB…the simple answer here is that late scratches are kinda rare, so people don’t have to spend the whole night waiting on alerts. Plus baseball has so much variance and is largely the least predictable, so swapping things around doesn’t mean much. People generally make their stacks and go with it. You can swap to chalk when you’re ahead and it busts, or you swap off chalk to contrarian plays, and then the chalk goes off. It often seems much more random in MLB DFS, especially hitting. The point here is that variance and unpredictability in hitting makes the pros swapping less advanatageous.

    Yet the real difference is that it’s simple 1 for 1 or 2 for 2 swaps that don’t require advanced programming knowledge, same as NFL. It’s not reoptimizing entire lineups.
    Also in baseball, things aren’t interrelated as they are in NBA. So people don’t backload and make “news driven” lineups cause there is rarely any news. It’s those types of lineups, that are the real advanatage, not just swapping on or off chalk depending on how lineups are performing. For example, if Steph Curry and Dray Green gets late scratched, a pro with programming knowledge will have “dummy”, or “news driven” lineups, which are lineups essentially filled with min priced bench players that can then be reoptimized once news breaks. These lineups can then go heavy Durant, heavy Quin Cook, then play the power forward on the opposing team that Dray guards. They can then spit out 30 optimal lineups, that will beat your casual players lineups at a high frequency. In MLB things aren’t interrelated. For example, If I was playing Pujlos at 1B, and he gets scratched, I either just find a 1st baseman close to his salary or play his replacement in a stack. It’s not as complicated. Because nba DFS is so news driven, the advantage is much greater for pros/players with advanced programming ability.

    Personally, I like making lineups, then at lock I’m done. I don’t want to look for news and adjust my lineups for the next 3 hours. I just want to follow my lineups and the NBA games. It’s much more enjoyable for me.

    So essentially, while late swap creates a small advantage for those willing to swap things around in NFL and MLB, it creates a massive advantage for those in NBA, due to the complicated nature of the swaps, the strategies involved, and being so dependent on news.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    @Jk1492 said...

    So….why do you count points in golf for holes played prior to a withdrawal? No scorecard is signed and the scores are not official.

    I don’t really care since we know ahead of time, but seems inconsistent to me.

    Baseball is controlled by MLB which defines the rules for when their stats are official and when stats are no longer valid. DK contests follow the MLB policy, we get our stats from the same impartial third party provider used by the MLB. It would create an awkward experience if MLB declared a game that was postponed prior to the 5th inning, if DK considered the stats to be official. Athletes do not earn the stats in the eyes of MLB when a PPD occurs, it would make countless players very unhappy if we did not follow MLB’s methodology.

    Let’s also discuss some hypothetical situations, this might help explain why MLB chose to invalidate stats for games that PPD. Imagine a scenario where we have a pitcher on the mound, with 0 runs against in the bottom of the 4th. Bases loaded. And then suddenly the game is called. Would this pitcher have to earn a shutout bonus if we considered the stats valid prior to the PPD? Wouldn’t that be unfair?

    Here is another example. Most of the time that a game is PPD, it is called mid-inning. Would it be a fair contest with unbalanced stats? What if the game was called halfway through the first inning? Players from one team would get their ABs, but the other team would not have that opportunity.

    We hope these examples help get everyone thinking about this topic, we are confident we made the right choice in the long run to maintain the integrity of the game.

    As for Golf, it is a different sport with different rules. We would be comparing apples to oranges by comparing golf to MLB, the only thing in common is that they are both fruit – or in the case of Baseball and Golf they are both spots. That is where the similarity ends.

    Here are the rule for Classic Golf:
    Golfers will receive fantasy points for all completed holes that we receive statistics for. If a golfer withdraws or is disqualified before completing a round, the golfer will receive fantasy points for all holes completed in that round that we receive statistics for. However, golfers who withdraw or are disqualified will not be eligible for a finishing position bonus.

    https://www.draftkings.com/help/rules/golf

    PS: This topic is about postponed MLB game, feel free to ask us about Late Swaps in a new thread once we get closer to NBA season. We have no insight to share about the upcoming season at this time, but we are of course happy to discuss the prior season in a new thread if you wish.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • lpdev

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    Let’s also discuss some hypothetical situations, this might help explain why MLB chose to invalidate stats for games that PPD. Imagine a scenario where we have a pitcher on the mound, with 0 runs against in the bottom of the 4th. Bases loaded. And then suddenly the game is called. Would this pitcher have to earn a shutout bonus if we considered the stats valid prior to the PPD? Wouldn’t that be unfair?

    Here is another example. Most of the time that a game is PPD, it is called mid-inning. Would it be a fair contest with unbalanced stats? What if the game was called halfway through the first inning? Players from one team would get their ABs, but the other team would not have that opportunity.

    A pitcher has to pitch a complete game to get credited with a shutout. Nobody would argue that a game called prior to 5 innings due to rain was a complete game.

    It would be fair in the sense that the players on the team that got to bat may have accrued some fantasy points while the other team’s batters didn’t (although the pitcher may have). When the home team is winning, they don’t get to bat in the bottom the 9th. The other team had that opportunity. You obviously can’t assign stats to things that didn’t happen.

    *I might also add that you have to handle these scenarios anyway in the event that a game is suspended.

  • KindGuy

    @Njsum1 said...

    I was simply answering your question as to why late swap is offered for mlb and nfl and not NBA, not offering an opinion on whether I agree or not. Yet, if you want to pull me into this argument, it actually makes perfect sense. Yet people often will not see the sense in something they disagree with, so I doubt this explanation will be worth my time. But here goes anyway…

    NFL is once a week, where most sports fans/DFS players are spending the day watching football anyway. Those with families and without. It’s not a big inconvenience for your casual player to make swaps, since he/she is probably following news for their season long teams as well. Yes pros can swap on and off chalk in certain lineups after the 1pm games depending on how their lineups are performing, yet average players will do this as well. It’s only once a week and they’re watching the games anyway. And its simple swaps (1v1 2v2). People also research/prepare lineups all week for nfl and there are only 17 regular season slates, so it’s not like NBA or MLB where you get 200 more slates to smooth out the bad variance if you get stuck with a late scratch. Things may not even out over the course of 17 weeks. So late swap benefits everyone evenly enough in NFL, and makes for a better experience for everyone.

    MLB…the simple answer here is that late scratches are kinda rare, so people don’t have to spend the whole night waiting on alerts. Plus baseball has so much variance and is largely the least predictable, so swapping things around doesn’t mean much. People generally make their stacks and go with it. You can swap to chalk when you’re ahead and it busts, or you swap off chalk to contrarian plays, and then the chalk goes off. It often seems much more random in MLB DFS, especially hitting. The point here is that variance and unpredictability in hitting makes the pros swapping less advanatageous.

    Yet the real difference is that it’s simple 1 for 1 or 2 for 2 swaps that don’t require advanced programming knowledge, same as NFL. It’s not reoptimizing entire lineups.
    Also in baseball, things aren’t interrelated as they are in NBA. So people don’t backload and make “news driven” lineups cause there is rarely any news. It’s those types of lineups, that are the real advanatage, not just swapping on or off chalk depending on how lineups are performing. For example, if Steph Curry and Dray Green gets late scratched, a pro with programming knowledge will have “dummy”, or “news driven” lineups, which are lineups essentially filled with min priced bench players that can then be reoptimized once news breaks. These lineups can then go heavy Durant, heavy Quin Cook, then play the power forward on the opposing team that Dray guards. They can then spit out 30 optimal lineups, that will beat your casual players lineups at a high frequency. In MLB things aren’t interrelated. For example, If I was playing Pujlos at 1B, and he gets scratched, I either just find a 1st baseman close to his salary or play his replacement in a stack. It’s not as complicated. Because nba DFS is so news driven, the advantage is much greater for pros/players with advanced programming ability.

    Personally, I like making lineups, then at lock I’m done. I don’t want to look for news and adjust my lineups for the next 3 hours. I just want to follow my lineups and the NBA games. It’s much more enjoyable for me.

    So essentially, while late swap creates a small advantage for those willing to swap things around in NFL and MLB, it creates a massive advantage for those in NBA, due to the complicated nature of the swaps, the strategies involved, and being so dependent on news.

    Beautifully said!

    I’m in the no late swap camp as well.

  • lpdev

    @elementasrat said...

    Beautifully said!

    I’m in the no late swap camp as well.

    Since this somehow branched off into an NBA late swap discussion…I might as well add that I enjoy not having late swap in NBA. It’s very nice to get my lineup in before lock and know that I don’t have to worry or think about any late breaking news that may come up. After lock, all are in the same boat and nobody is going to grab an edge on me while I’m spending time with my family.

  • X Unread Thread
  • X Thread with New Replies*
  • *Jumps to your first unread reply

Subforum Index

RotoGrinders.com is the home of the daily fantasy sports community. Our content, rankings, member blogs, promotions and forum discussion all cater to the players that like to create a new fantasy team every day of the week.

If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL). Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (NJ/WV/PA/MI), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (CO), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-888-532-3500 (VA) or call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN).