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  • d_train21

    The Ironman LoL Summer Achievements now pay out in DK Dollars for doing 70-80 days of entries at $1+ daily. Looks like $20 DK dollars, where in the past, that would have been 15k-25k in DK Crowns, worth around twice that at the going rate of 550 Crowns = $1 plus the extra added bonus of pushing you to Diamond (another $40-$60 in DK dollars.)
    Hope this isn’t a sign of things to come with Achievements.

  • karb88

    I’m hopeful this is something they’re doing differently for ESP since there are multiple ironman achievements available. MMA 2nd half achievements should be released soon, if they are also doing DK dollars for those it would be a sign they’ve changed their approach.

  • Smallchimp

    The quality of DK achievements, in general, has gotten progressively worse since their inception (and even in the last year or so). The current “spend $10 on Showdown contests for x amount of days/weeks” format is garbage, and it seems like either achievements worked, and now people are playing closer to what DK wants them to play, or people were farming relatively cheap achievements, and the carrot on the stick didn’t get the right response. It sucks, achievements were excellent motivators to stay on top of playing lineups.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    We think the RotoGrinders community is well aware of our daily cycle of iterating and trying new contests across sports and game types. Similarly, from season to season, DK is committed to finding paths to improve the products we offer, with multi-faceted ways we reward the loyalty of our customers.

    DK is committed to continuous evolution, that is why we have expressed in the past that you should not expect “more of the same” from us over and over again – and this is a good thing! For those of you who have played DFS for a long time, spend a few moments to think about how far DK has come, how diverse our loyalty programs are compared to just a few years ago, and how the array of guaranteed contests we offer are better than ever.

    All of the changes we implemented have data to confirm that they were a net positive for the ecosystem in the long run, this is precisely why DFS continues to grow (just three years ago many in RotoGrinders were declaring DFS to be dead, remember that? How wrong they were!).

    We get it. We know that some of you have a specific focus for evaluating a small component of our loyalty in isolation because it is the part of our comprehensive loyalty programs that resonates with you. We respect that, but DK’s perspective is broader. We view player rewards as a total package with achievements comprising just one of multiple components – such as Missions. Before making any changes to our loyalty mechanics, we take care to double and triple check that the total value to our customers as a complete package is where we place our focus.

    As you may have noticed in the past, DK tends to show loyalty back to our most consistent players who have in turn demonstrated their loyalty to DraftKings. Stick with us & stay active! Play all of our Esports. Aim for that Ironman achievement… show us your dedication to Esports, and we might show you something in return. We would advise caution against drawing comparisons for the totality of the program just yet because there’s always a possibility that you haven’t seen everything we have planned for you (hint – there is more to come!).

    We appreciate everyone sharing their initial reactions and we hope you can keep in mind that even though change may bring about uncertainty at first, DK always has your back. Looking to the near future, there may be a new achievement program “fighting” its way to the Rewards page next week that also features DK$ rewards instead of crowns. We’d love to hear your thoughts once that’s live, too – as we will be comparing results between the two to help us shape the entirety of our loyalty programs for this fall!

    Looks like $20 DK dollars, where in the past, that would have been 15k-25k in DK Crowns

    Ironman rewards are calculated using a proprietary formula that calculates the total number of entries during the course of the season needed, factored by our total rewards offerings during the time frame. Achievement programs during the beginning of the pandemic last year are hard to compare due to the unique nature of the contests offered at that time. For this summer’s ESP Ironman we project a contest entry value of roughly 10K Crowns. One DK$ is equivalent to 550 crowns, it’s not hard to figure out that we are offering better than the expected value!

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • TheShaman43

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    For this summer’s ESP Ironman we project a contest entry value of roughly 10K Crowns. One DK$ is equivalent to 550 crowns, it’s not hard to figure out that we are offering better than the expected value!

    I think I’m following here…The end reward for an Ironman achievement is $20DK and 20*550=11,000 which is where your calculation of the Ironman being worth roughly 10,000 crowns comes from. While this superficially makes sense, it does (in my opinion) vastly discount the value of a DK crown whose value is not solely contained in it’s purchasing power of contest entries.

    You’re ballpark-ing the value of Ironman at 10,000 crowns but are discounting the value of the crown as it pertains to tier status. Ten thousand crowns is, coincidentally, the exact number needed to attain Platinum status for a month. For this month (excluding the six days of ‘hidden’ reward) Platinum status is worth 800 additional crowns and an additional $17DK or another $18.45 in value (17+[800/550]). To claim that the $20DK is worth 10K crowns is intellectually dishonest, you’re discounting it’s value by over 40%.

    Completing three of the four Ironman achievements is worth $60DK, or by your calculations roughly 30K crowns. But that 30K crown equivalency ignores the fact that rewarding crowns rather than DK dollars would result in Diamond status, an additional $48 value (using July’s reward calendar and not including the six ‘hidden’ rewards – incidentally the last time we had a 31 day month, May, Diamond status paid out $54 dollars excluding the ‘hidden’ days, so there’s been a decrease here as well). Again a 40% discount in the crown value that you are claiming.

    I’m not looking a gift horse in the mouth, even with the decrease in value DK is essentially giving away free money with the Achievements program, but the above explanation reads as if you are trying to tell us that it’s as good as it’s ever been – albeit in a different format. This is not the case, and the move from crowns to $DK is a significant downgrade in what has been offered in the past.

    “Contest entry value of roughly 10K crowns” is absolutely less valuable than actually receiving 10K crowns and none of us should pretend that it isn’t. I don’t play eSports, but if the Achievements program for the NFL and NHL moves away from crowns and towards $DK I will definitely be more judicious in my contest selection as opposed to going out of my way to try and hit achievements the way I do now.

  • realphipps

    It’s a bit exhausting. Your elite formulas and algos, and the constant reminders of just how elite they are… It’s gotten really old. Like the attempts to distort reality, as you attempted to do in this very thread. Your customers aren’t idiots.

  • rgriffin37

    @TheShaman43 said...

    I think I’m following here…The end reward for an Ironman achievement is $20DK and 20*550=11,000 which is where your calculation of the Ironman being worth roughly 10,000 crowns comes from. While this superficially makes sense, it does (in my opinion) vastly discount the value of a DK crown whose value is not solely contained in it’s purchasing power of contest entries.

    You’re ballpark-ing the value of Ironman at 10,000 crowns but are discounting the value of the crown as it pertains to tier status. Ten thousand crowns is, coincidentally, the exact number needed to attain Platinum status for a month. For this month (excluding the six days of ‘hidden’ reward) Platinum status is worth 800 additional crowns and an additional $17DK or another $18.45 in value (17+[800/550]). To claim that the $20DK is worth 10K crowns is intellectually dishonest, you’re discounting it’s value by over 40%.

    Completing three of the four Ironman achievements is worth $60DK, or by your calculations roughly 30K crowns. But that 30K crown equivalency ignores the fact that rewarding crowns rather than DK dollars would result in Diamond status, an additional $48 value (using July’s reward calendar and not including the six ‘hidden’ rewards – incidentally the last time we had a 31 day month, May, Diamond status paid out $54 dollars excluding the ‘hidden’ days, so there’s been a decrease here as well). Again a 40% discount in the crown value that you are claiming.

    I’m not looking a gift horse in the mouth, even with the decrease in value DK is essentially giving away free money with the Achievements program, but the above explanation reads as if you are trying to tell us that it’s as good as it’s ever been – albeit in a different format. This is not the case, and the move from crowns to $DK is a significant downgrade in what has been offered in the past.

    “Contest entry value of roughly 10K crowns” is absolutely less valuable than actually receiving 10K crowns and none of us should pretend that it isn’t. I don’t play eSports, but if the Achievements program for the NFL and NHL moves away from crowns and towards $DK I will definitely be more judicious in my contest selection as opposed to going out of my way to try and hit achievements the way I do now.

    Nailed it. This is an excellent post and echoes my own thoughts on the matter. I get that the person from DK who posts here might not be involved in the decisions that dictate the achievements program structure and may only be responsible for defending, explaining and promoting said decisions. Be that as it may, there is zero dispute that moving the ironman rewards from crowns to DK dollars would be a very large net negative for players. The incentive to grind out these ironman achievements has always been tied to the reward tiers. Offering DK dollars instead of crowns virtually removes this component of the equation. I have been able to maintain platinum and diamond status consistently thanks solely to achievements. Without the crowns from achievements, I would be gold tier at best based on the amount I play plus the meager amount accrued through missions. This past month I made it to black tier for the first (and almost certainly only) time due to being able to claim CBB, EPL, NHL and NBA crowns in May. That’s a big deal for a low stakes player like me. Without the incentive of higher reward tiers, the achievements program loses that vast majority of its appeal for me. I am willing to see how it plays out in the Fall with EPL and NFL, then NBA and NHL later in the year. That said, I fear the writing is on the wall here that DK is moving away from crowns and will try to convince us it is better for us. If that is the case, my level of play will decline quite a bit and I may stop certain sports and game formats entirely. I was fine with the move to a $1 minimum per day because being able to play only dimes was just absurdly generous. MLB became less valuable this season because the postseason was lumped in, thus increasing the the number of days by 20-30 (as compared to the last full season) while still offering the same level of rewards. I was also OK with that because I like baseball a lot. Removing the crown component from the ironman achievements would be the line in the sand for me though. There’s a definite pattern here of value reduction from the the program as a whole so I suppose it was inevitable that the tipping point would be reached. Sadly, I assume the majority of players don’t read the T&C for each sport’s achievements and strategize how best to align their play based on the crowns they can potentially earn via each achievement. Many will just see the bright green text with a DK dollar amount listed and think that is worth going after.

  • mciama2000

    100% agree with the last 2 posts. The true value in the achievements with crowns was just having that ability to tier jump. I would play the stupid Madden sims for 10k crowns, just to be able to jump from Platinum to Diamond. As of now no interest in playing that, and if other sports continue that approach, would definitely cut those out and just play the main sports. I’m hoping come October we don’t end up seeing NBA/NHL ironman at like $25 DK dollars.

  • hautalak

    • x2

      2021 Blogger of the Month

    @mciama2000 said...

    As of now no interest in playing that, and if other sports continue that approach, would definitely cut those out and just play the main sports. I’m hoping come October we don’t end up seeing NBA/NHL ironman at like $25 DK dollars.

    X3 I echo all of the above. No Madden Sims for me this time. NFL, NHL, and PGA for me.

  • Supersharpie

    @hautalak said...

    X3 I echo all of the above. No Madden Sims for me this time. NFL, NHL, and PGA for me.

    X4

    Bottom line is that I am finished with grinding out achievements unless those achievements grant tier status.

    For instance, Diamond Tier should be granted to those who either cash in 25000 crowns OR win $45 in DK dollars through the achievements promo. Anything less is just lipstick on a piggie decision made by DK MGMT to screw over the little guys. I guess they were getting pressure from shareholders to increase net profit.

  • btwice80

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    the array of guaranteed contests we offer are better than ever.

    Hard disagree.

  • ryanprzy

    x5

    I’ve gotten the Iron Man achievements for NBA, MLB, NFL, and NHL for each of the past four seasons and in the past year or two I started getting the PGA and NASCAR ones also.

    If this is the beginning of a major switch, it’s an easy decision for me to quit DFS altogether. Grinding every single day year-round has been fun but the return is not great with the rake being as high as it is. I could use the time a bit more efficiently elsewhere.

    I guess since the NFL achievements have never been worthwhile, I’ll find out when basketball starts back up around September whether I’m in or out.

  • nizzle365

    X6

    The math is simple:

    The 4 ESP ironman achievements were all worth 10K crowns in the Spring season, and are now worth $20 DK dollars in the Summer season. 1,000 crowns is roughly worth $1.82. So from ESP Spring, 40K crowns was worth $72.73, plus it got you to Diamond Tier status which was worth an additional $64.00. That has been now replaced with a total of $80.00 in ESP Summer, since there will be no upgrade in Tier status.

    Old system: $72.73 (crowns) + $64.00 (tier status) = Total of $136.73
    New system: $80.00 (DK dollars) + $0.00 (tier status) = Total of $80.00

    For small time players like myself who would never even come close to achieving Diamond Tier status without the Ironmans, that’s a net loss of $56.73. For high volume players who already get to Diamond/Black status without these achievement programs, its actually a net gain of $7.27. However I would venture to say there are many more small time players than high volume players, not to mention do high volume players even care about Achievement programs? Really its more or less peanuts for them, doubt they care about an extra $7.

    The ESP program is already set in stone, so what’s done is done, but as others have pointed out, hopefully this is not the new norm, and we get back to 25K crowns for the NHL/NBA/MLB programs.

    From the DK Rep:

    “Before making any changes to our loyalty mechanics, we take care to double and triple check that the total value to our customers as a complete package is where we place our focus.”

    From what I can see, the total value is decreasing by 41% to players like me. So the statement above doesn’t seem overly accurate to me.

  • bigez952

    I really hope all sports don’t move to DK Dollars instead of crowns for Ironman as the only reason I play them is for the bump up to Diamond status for a month. The idea of going to something like $50 or $60 DK Dollars would be disappointing if they do it for the sports I actually play.

  • realphipps

    Gals and guys,

    I’ve been locked out of my DK account since posting here. They’re not gonna let me back in either. Daily player for 6 years here with no issues ever. As soon as I posted here, all my contests were withdrawn and my account was locked. I can’t even withdraw my balance!

    Be careful what you say.

  • ryanprzy

    @realphipps said...

    Gals and guys,

    I’ve been locked out of my DK account since posting here. They’re not gonna let me back in either. Daily player for 6 years here with no issues ever. As soon as I posted here, all my contests were withdrawn and my account was locked. I can’t even withdraw my balance!

    Be careful what you say.

    No way, there has to be more to it than that. I just don’t think they would do that. Is it possible that you were prompted to change your password after switching between the DK app and Sportsbook app?

  • realphipps

    @ryanprzy said...

    No way, there has to be more to it than that. I just don’t think they would do that. Is it possible that you were prompted to change your password after switching between the DK app and Sportsbook app?

    At first I was told I had logged into too many places at once. And then I was told I had shared my account with someone over the weekend.

    My weekend action was playing my 4th of July series lineup in the quarter arcade and a couple dime ticket entries.

    I will say, customer service seemed interested in helping me. Sent in my ID multiple times. Each time “too blurry” even though you can count the cracks around the edges of the ID.

    Never had an issue at all in over six years. The ID they’re requesting, they already have on file. It’s the same drivers license. Yet, one day after posting here, my account is still locked. Which is cool for a few months, but I want to play NFL.

  • ryanprzy

    @realphipps said...

    At first I was told I had logged into too many places at once. And then I was told I had shared my account with someone over the weekend.

    My weekend action was playing my 4th of July series lineup in the quarter arcade and a couple dime ticket entries.

    I will say, customer service seemed interested in helping me. Sent in my ID multiple times. Each time “too blurry” even though you can count the cracks around the edges of the ID.

    Never had an issue at all in over six years. The ID they’re requesting, they already have on file. It’s the same drivers license. Yet, one day after posting here, my account is still locked. Which is cool for a few months, but I want to play NFL.

    I wonder what “too many places at once” means. Like if they mean how many devices you’re switching between or if you traveled over the weekend and your mobile GPS was spread out over too many physical locations. Either way that’s a bummer, man. I doubt it had anything to do with what you said on here though

  • realphipps

    Edit

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    We hope everyone had a great holiday weekend! DK appreciates that the RotoGrinders members continue to share their thoughts as we continue to monitor the pulse of the entire DFS community. We understand and acknowledge that the majority of the dispirited opinions voiced on RotoGrinders in this thread link back to tier-related rewards concerns.

    Before we begin, we want to assure you that your voices have not fallen on deaf ears.

    One of the reasons we run tests is that we like to “dip our toes in the water” before every critical change that we make to ensure our analysts understand the full scope of possible impacts to the ecosystem prior to proceeding.

    In the past, we’ve received a lot of feedback from players indicating that it can sometimes be confusing to understand the difference between Crowns and DK Dollars. Our behind the scenes goal with this Esports Achievement program was to find opportunities that test the adoption of DKDollars as a core currency, while remaining cognizant of the role that achievement Crowns currently play in “the game within the game.”

    Within a few days, we have a solution planned that will use the learnings from our test to address every concern regarding expected value for participation in our achievement programs. We alluded to this in our last post when we said “you haven’t seen everything we have planned for you (hint – there is more to come!)” – there really are additions to the Achievement Program which are about to come very soon, we think it will make everyone happy.

    As an interim reminder, all options always remain on the table at DK – including for new achievement programs that may be launching soon. We constantly run data science tests on behalf of our customers and in this instance, we’ve gathered nearly everything we need to make an adjustment. In the future anything is possible, maybe we will unify our loyalty currency. Maybe we will have a replacement for crowns (everyone remembers FPPs, right?). Maybe we double down and drive harder than ever before with cross-vertical options that reward play in new ways. Everything is being reviewed consistently, this allows us to stay 3 steps ahead of the field! We are playing the long game, and are grateful that each of you are participating as we work hard to nail this down. Thanks to all on RG for helping us to make sure we get it just right!

    I’ve been locked out of my DK account since posting here.

    We can assure everyone that we would not restrict a player as a result of exercising the right to free speech in a public forum, especially when the feedback is fair and valid.

    If you could please send us an ID that matches the address on your DraftKings account since it doesn’t appear the same. Could you please upload a cleared image of your ID for us to speed up the process.

    We take identity verification very seriously, the security of our customer’s account is too important to take risks. As for the reason why your account was restricted, we cannot discuss the topic here for security reasons. Please work with the DFS Player Advocates at support@draftkings.com and follow their explicit instructions, they are best-equipped to help you address the real reason for your restriction – and get you back in the game once the reason for restriction is resolved.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • realphipps

    Addressed.

  • realphipps

    Dup.

  • Supersharpie

    CM, thanks for listening to our concerns! I will be competing in the 2nd Half MMA achievements promo specifically because the rewards are in crowns.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    UPDATE 2nd Half MMA Achievements are now live, starting with the big event in Las Vegas this weekend!

    https://www.draftkings.com/lp/achievements#/mma/2nd-Half

    2nd Half MMA Achievements are very similar to the 1st Half program – with the MMA Ironman offering 7,500 Crowns and the Pay Per View Ironman rewarding an additional 7,500. This is the counterpoint to our experimental ESP Summer Achievements where we are awarding DK$.

    Two stellar callouts that we think MMA fans will love:

    • Fantasy MMA Ironman = 7,500 Crowns reward! Play $5+ in MMA entries on 20 days between 7/10/2021 and 12/31/2021.
    • Pay Per View Ironman = 7,500 Crowns reward! Play $10+ in MMA entries for 6 Pay Per View events between 7/10/2021 and 12/31/2021.

    Additionally, adjustments to the current ESP Summer Achievements program are also on the way, so stay tuned! As mentioned in our prior posts above, the Fantasy ESports Achievements program is testing for future mechanics that we have planned, now that we have some of the necessary data under our belts we intend to make some adjustments that will make the ESP program juicier. Those of you who remained committed to the end certainly see the benefits.

    CM, thanks for listening to our concerns! I will be competing in the 2nd Half MMA achievements promo specifically because the rewards are in crowns.

    We are always listening to the entire community – that is unlikely to ever change, it is the secret sauce that made DK the #1 DFS operator in the biz.

    With that said, change is evolutionary, and DK never stops evolving. The tests we conducted for ESP will help set our decision makers up for success as we roll out future plans. That’s how we do nearly everything, it’s how data science driven decisions work – test and evolve. Testing is a core part of the DraftKings DNA, without it we would be flying blind.

    Enjoy!

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    Seems this might have been addressed, so won’t go on any angry rants, but did want to say that I am someone else that moved all their okay to draftkings and has played numerous sports, everyday, when they wouldn’t otherwise, solely due to the achievement program.

    An example of how achievements effects my play I barely follow NHL, but played everyday and was actually excited to not have to deal with it once the regular season ended…but then the playoff achievements seemed like a great deal and I wound up spending $100’s playing playoff hockey, conversely, I didn’t see the value in the NBA playoff achievements (a sport I watch and like far better) and I’ve played a $1 I believe.

    I do realize my adoration for the structure/system is based on how generous they have been, so begrudgingly I get if some changes are made, for instance needing to play at least a $1 a night, but I certainly echo the sentiments of most here, where I would be very bummed if it devolved into what was initially posted here, across the board…and it would have a serious effect on what I choose to play.

  • wolfjb1

    Same here, but it’s about the MLB achievements. Not separating them into regular and postseason is just ridiculous. You have to play 200 days in a row. A couple of months ago I scheduled a trip for October to a state where DFS is banned. So I’ll likely end up with something like 182 days in a row of MLB DFs and be unable to claim the 25K crowns.

    I knew this going into MLB season, so they didn’t change anything up midstream, but the point stands that it’s no longer as valuable and will have an effect on what I choose to play, going forward. If Ironman continues to include postseason I won’t even bother trying for it in future years (with 2021 being 2021, anything could happen and who knows if my October trip goes forward, so I’m still chugging along, just in case my trip doesn’t happen)

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