NBA FORUM

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  • lineupofpeace

    Just got an e-mail about this. Also giving players multiple position eligibility.

  • Cocomilk

    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    I don’t think that’s entirely true either.
    They don’t make money when you deposit. They make money (rake) from each time you play a game.
    What their aim really is is retention and keeping money on the site…and that’s more complicated then simply stating, “They want people to redeposit”.

    For a losing player, that may be the case and the goal for DK is creating an experience where the user has enough fun that they will continue to play and redeposit even if they lose over the long run.
    Conversely, it’s the same goal but a different means when it comes to a profitable player. You want to create an experience that ensures they play even more games and higher limits as their bankroll increases. You want to avoid them withdrawing.

    DK’s goal is keeping as many players and money in circulation as possible.

    They essentially make 11% on every new deposit and the Sharks stay fed. New players/ deposits is infinitely more important than retention.

    How long do you sit at a short handed poker game of equal talent, watching the stacks slowly trickle into the rake? You don’t. New money comes in or you take your win innings and go home.

  • kpquick24

    @Petergunz82 said...

    Why are they catering to the casual player with “no time” to monitor news. If you don’t have what it takes, don’t play or play and lose money. Why don’t they just give the casual players free money while they’re at it

    I feel your pain. I would much rather have the late swap myself. IMO if you don’t have the time to play certain slates or weeks then you should not play that week. As everyone knows those weeks you throw some lineups together you are way less likely to be profitable than those you take some time deciding on the right plays that weekend are later probably wishing you hadn’t played that slate/week. We should not punish those who have the time to make late swaps. Honestly though, is it that hard to see oh Cousins isn’t playing let me plug player X in his spot and swap PG to Westbrook with the extra cash Thats why we have global swap as well. It only takes a couple of minutes to see an update and do a swap. I feel this was a poor decision by DraftKings.

  • Olhausen

    I can’t wait for next baseball season. I’m sure by then DK will be down to 4 man stack limits and no late swapping. It’s to bad we don’t have another big site to choose from. Oh wait we have fan duel who already does that.

  • navyynick

    To the people saying that this is making it fair are completely wrong.

    I’ve always pictured DFS as a strategic lottery, with each player representing a number. The trick though is that some numbers have a better chance of being drawn. So to the people saying “ make it fairer “ or “ this will only help the people who make 150 LUs “, you are completely wrong because those people who script or make 15 or more line ups, etc. They usually always have atleast one of the same player, or high exposure too multiple players.

    Anyways back to the lottery, imagine curry is the number 15, and you have the number 15 on all of your tickets, you’ve done your research, you have a good lineup and then the man drawing the numbers, he decides that the number 15 shouldn’t be drawn this week and removes it from the lottery. You now effectively have been cheated out of your money. This not make it fair, or fairer. In fact it makes it worse then actually gambling. Youre now actually gambling on the fact that your gamble will actually end up playing, where as before you could just put all your research into play and adjust accordly if that that player is not playing, horrible decision draftkings.

  • Jaws1002

    Sent an email to them and got this reply
    Thank you for reaching out. After soliciting feedback from our players we believe that eliminating late swap will enhance the overall enjoyment of our NBA product. Removing late swap will allow all players to enjoy the games that are being played in real time, as opposed to being glued to social media ensuring that there is no news that may impact their lineups. We are very excited for what our NBA product holds this season.

    Disappointed it’s the main reason I play draft kings. I hope they never do this in baseball or football. Don’t know why they mess with a good product.

  • jilesofthetrees

    • 2016 NASCAR Live Finalist

    @navyynick said...

    To the people saying that this is making it fair are completely wrong.

    I’ve always pictured DFS as a strategic lottery, with each player representing a number. The trick though is that some numbers have a better chance of being drawn. So to the people saying “ make it fairer “ or “ this will only help the people who make 150 LUs “, you are completely wrong because those people who script or make 15 or more line ups, etc. They usually always have atleast one of the same player, or high exposure too multiple players.

    Anyways back to the lottery, imagine curry is the number 15, and you have the number 15 on all of your tickets, you’ve done your research, you have a good lineup and then the man drawing the numbers, he decides that the number 15 shouldn’t be drawn this week and removes it from the lottery. You now effectively have been cheated out of your money. This not make it fair, or fairer. In fact it makes it worse then actually gambling. Youre now actually gambling on the fact that your gamble will actually end up playing, where as before you could just put all your research into play and adjust accordly if that that player is not playing, horrible decision draftkings.

    https://xkcd.com/904/
    yes variance increases. Yes its bad for +EV players. Sadly +EV players are becoming less important, not more, to the industry as a whole. Enjoy.

  • kpquick24

    @Jaws1002 said...

    Sent an email to them and got this reply
    Thank you for reaching out. After soliciting feedback from our players we believe that eliminating late swap will enhance the overall enjoyment of our NBA product. Removing late swap will allow all players to enjoy the games that are being played in real time, as opposed to being glued to social media ensuring that there is no news that may impact their lineups. We are very excited for what our NBA product holds this season.

    Disappointed it’s the main reason I play draft kings. I hope they never do this in baseball or football. Don’t know why they mess with a good product.

    Well who sits their glued to their phone hitting refresh waiting on updates when Rotogrinders does the work for you and sends you updates??? I watch the games and watch the various scores for my lineups. I still enjoy watching the game..

  • kpquick24

    @Jaws1002 said...

    Sent an email to them and got this reply
    Thank you for reaching out. After soliciting feedback from our players we believe that eliminating late swap will enhance the overall enjoyment of our NBA product. Removing late swap will allow all players to enjoy the games that are being played in real time, as opposed to being glued to social media ensuring that there is no news that may impact their lineups. We are very excited for what our NBA product holds this season.

    Disappointed it’s the main reason I play draft kings. I hope they never do this in baseball or football. Don’t know why they mess with a good product.

    Well who sits their glued to their phone hitting refresh waiting on updates when Rotogrinders does the work for you and sends you updates??? I watch the games and watch the various scores for my lineups. I still enjoy watching the game..

  • jecarl2

    Sooo…. is DK going to start breaking up the slate into early/late. I would bet thats whats going on here. There would be no need for late swap if that happened. They’ve one it with every other sport the past year.

  • Olhausen

    @hobbes2d said...

    You can’t cover all outcomes but those who can enter that many lineups typically will have a strong core of players and can build in different upside plays in combination with their core and have a much better chance of hitting (especially now with early lock) over people who can only throw in a couple of LU and got a fat 0 from one of their core players.

    This is exactly how I felt about DK going from 6 to 5 man stacks in baseball. It gives the mass multiple entry players a bigger edge because they can stack one team 20 different ways to ovoid missing the one player who goes nuts. As to where it hurt a player like me who’s only doing 5-6 lineup’s a night.

  • Petergunz82

    @Jaws1002 said...

    Sent an email to them and got this reply
    Thank you for reaching out. After soliciting feedback from our players we believe that eliminating late swap will enhance the overall enjoyment of our NBA product. Removing late swap will allow all players to enjoy the games that are being played in real time, as opposed to being glued to social media ensuring that there is no news that may impact their lineups. We are very excited for what our NBA product holds this season.

    Disappointed it’s the main reason I play draft kings. I hope they never do this in baseball or football. Don’t know why they mess with a good product.

    What a cop out from DK. First they put themselves in front of the firing squad with the incessant commercial campaign and now this.
    They’re running this company like a lemonade stand.
    It’s lemonade! Read the sign. Delicious

  • Petergunz82

    @jecarl2 said...

    Sooo…. is DK going to start breaking up the slate into early/late. I would bet thats whats going on here. There would be no need for late swap if that happened. They’ve one it with every other sport the past year.

    I highly doubt it

  • troveur

    @Markness said...

    Hey Guys,

    I wanted to share a little more on our reasoning for removing late-swap for NBA

    I think late-swap was initially viewed by many new and casual customers as a necessary safe guard against a last-minute “scratch,” which has made late-swap a very popular feature for DraftKings over the past few years. While late-swap can help prevent the poor experience of getting a zero in your lineup, there are other uses for the feature which ultimately require users to monitor news and scramble to make last-minute adjustments to their lineups up until tip-off of the last game of the night. For example, often times a late scratch will result in other players becoming valuable picks. So now you are not only monitoring your own players to make sure they are not scratched; you actually should be monitoring all NBA news to capitalize on any new value picks that might transpire while players are still eligible to be swapped.

    We know that there will be customers that are not happy with this decision. However, we have increasingly received feedback from players who have decreased their play or even stopped playing completely because they want to “actually enjoy watching the NBA.” We do see the value of late-swap and there are no plans of removing it for other sports, but for NBA specifically, it has become clear that the amount of extra time and energy required to compete as a result of late-swap functionality is taking too much away from the enjoyment of the game.

    -Mark

    OR just maybe this is one of the first steps before FD takes you over because you guys are bleeding millions every month with such poor decisions and lack of rules enforcement. My guess is DK won’t exist in it’s present form in 12 months.

  • xpac21

    for those guys who said it’s usually only guys that are hurt and or old that get scratched, what about last april when several raptors/thunder/heat players get scratched or rested a couple minutes after the first game tips off at 7 est…i still had time to swap a few of them out cuz i was still paying attention…i mean like lowry/derozan who weren’t dealing with any injuries yet they waited til like 7 02 est to announce which of them was sitting …you seriously think ppl are going to spend all the extra $ to gamble on which of them is going to be rested, really messed up…i dont like the other change either honestly, i prefer less flexibility so i have less decisions to make

  • kressmi

    I already put in for withdrawal of all my money. This is awful.

  • xpac21

    and for those ppl who say it’s for ppl who have fun while losing…who has fun knowing their money is being lost? must be on drugs, myself having to try to make an income doing this, well it’s really messed up to say the least

  • mistermoneybags

    All….please join me in a moment of silence for Rudy Gay, as his days of crushing our big money dreams are about to come to a swift and most welcome end…

  • tonytone1908

    Hahaha. Everyone wanted FD to be like DK and now it’s the opposite! Too funny.

  • Yeoman

    @jecarl2 said...

    Sooo…. is DK going to start breaking up the slate into early/late. I would bet thats whats going on here. There would be no need for late swap if that happened. They’ve one it with every other sport the past year.

    You can count on it—in fact I think the basketball survey they just sent out was a marketing tool to try to get people to prefer broken slates. These aren’t questions to determine customer preferences, they’re carefully worded to try to manipulate those preferences:

    “How much do you agree with the following statements:

    “I don’t like having to stay up late to watch the end of games in my NBA contests.”

    “Playing NBA contests with a lot of games requires too much research.”

  • jecarl2

    This is going to completely change the way you structure your lineups. Taking players in the late games is essentially going to make your lineup a gpp lineup due to the risk of having guys scratched or questionable players sitting or not sitting.

    That value play that exist on the west coast, may not even see the court if the starter ends up playing after a game time decision.
    More people will be on the same players from the early games.

    Why would they eliminate a competitive advantage?

  • mellofellowsu

    @xpac21 said...

    and for those ppl who say it’s for ppl who have fun while losing…who has fun knowing their money is being lost? must be on drugs, myself having to try to make an income doing this, well it’s really messed up to say the least

    Most people play DFS for fun.

    There are many people, both casual players and really good players, who have full time careers and play DFS using disposable income. Very few people are playing DFS thinking they’re going to make a living doing this.

    Those who are making a living doing this, well what else are they going to do? Either find something else to do or adapt.

  • Petergunz82

    @mistermoneybags said...

    All….please join me in a moment of silence for Rudy Gay, as his days of crushing our big money dreams are about to come to a swift and most welcome end…

    Lmao

  • Petergunz82

    @Petergunz82 said...

    Lmao

    It’s so true…can’t play old dudes anymore

  • Yeoman

    @xpac21 said...

    and for those ppl who say it’s for ppl who have fun while losing…who has fun knowing their money is being lost? must be on drugs, myself having to try to make an income doing this, well it’s really messed up to say the least

    We wouldn’t have slot machines and lotteries if people didn’t have fun losing money. For a lot of people it only stops being fun when it’s your fault your money has been lost.

    I think that’s a lot of the problem here. On the one hand the industry has to present their product as a game of skill, to keep the law of their backs. But they market it as if it were a casino. Big checks. “Everyone can win.” Tournament payout structures that I’m sure are informed by all the work casinos have done on just how often you have to pay out to keep players at the machine.

    If they make changes to their product under the guise of “fair play” that seem in fact intended to maximize the random element, it’s not because they’re confused. They’re legally and financially obligated to talk out both sides of their mouths.

  • JayDFS

    This is spot on. The casuals are the guys that allow you to be profitable long term. If new players arent coming in, depositing X amount and losing it, then you’re eventually go bust to the rake. In all honestly they probably ran some focus groups of the most casual players they could find & they didn’t like the late swap mechanic. They have to appeal to the casuals.

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