NBA FORUM

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  • lineupofpeace

    Just got an e-mail about this. Also giving players multiple position eligibility.

  • rainbowtroutman

    @Markness said...

    Hey Guys,

    I wanted to share a little more on our reasoning for removing late-swap for NBA

    I think late-swap was initially viewed by many new and casual customers as a necessary safe guard against a last-minute “scratch,” which has made late-swap a very popular feature for DraftKings over the past few years. While late-swap can help prevent the poor experience of getting a zero in your lineup, there are other uses for the feature which ultimately require users to monitor news and scramble to make last-minute adjustments to their lineups up until tip-off of the last game of the night. For example, often times a late scratch will result in other players becoming valuable picks. So now you are not only monitoring your own players to make sure they are not scratched; you actually should be monitoring all NBA news to capitalize on any new value picks that might transpire while players are still eligible to be swapped.

    We know that there will be customers that are not happy with this decision. However, we have increasingly received feedback from players who have decreased their play or even stopped playing completely because they want to “actually enjoy watching the NBA.” We do see the value of late-swap and there are no plans of removing it for other sports, but for NBA specifically, it has become clear that the amount of extra time and energy required to compete as a result of late-swap functionality is taking too much away from the enjoyment of the game.

    -Mark

    Mark—This won’t affect me as I cashed out a few weeks ago when the “collusion” thread was going on. Wish you would have responded to that—-lol

  • lggarruto

    • 595

      RG Overall Ranking

    why are people glued to twitter and there phones for breaking news anyway?? Their are plenty of apps that alert you.

  • flames0099

    This is bullshit. I love NBA and most nights you get tons of news 10-15 minutes before a game plays and you have to make last minute changes. The whole key to NBA is taking advantage of late swap. My first big DFS GGP win was because of late swap. Tyreke Evans was ruled out at 745 est and I swerved to Norris Cole who was starting for him and with the savings I was able to get off a chalk player and take the savings and upgrade to DeAndre Jordan. I ended up finishing 3rd and won 10K and that is how I was able to go from playing $30 a night to any amount I want as I had a legit bankroll. About 3 months after that I made a late swerve to avoid chalk and won $15K. My first 2 big cashes were purely because of late swap on DK. I did send a message to DK and complain. Everyone do so please so we can get late swap back before the season starts.

  • dragon1952

    @Markness said…

    Hey Guys,

    I wanted to share a little more on our reasoning for removing late-swap for NBA

    I think late-swap was initially viewed by many new and casual customers as a necessary safe guard against a last-minute “scratch,” which has made late-swap a very popular feature for DraftKings over the past few years. While late-swap can help prevent the poor experience of getting a zero in your lineup, there are other uses for the feature which ultimately require users to monitor news and scramble to make last-minute adjustments to their lineups up until tip-off of the last game of the night. For example, often times a late scratch will result in other players becoming valuable picks. So now you are not only monitoring your own players to make sure they are not scratched; you actually should be monitoring all NBA news to capitalize on any new value picks that might transpire while players are still eligible to be swapped.

    We know that there will be customers that are not happy with this decision. However, we have increasingly received feedback from players who have decreased their play or even stopped playing completely because they want to “actually enjoy watching the NBA.” We do see the value of late-swap and there are no plans of removing it for other sports, but for NBA specifically, it has become clear that the amount of extra time and energy required to compete as a result of late-swap functionality is taking too much away from the enjoyment of the game.

    -Mark

    Soooo….you’re saying people want to watch NBA and not worry about watching the news ticker but they don’t give a rat’s ass about watching baseball or football!?!? Hmmm……

  • lggarruto

    • 595

      RG Overall Ranking

    If WE all take a stance and decrease play for even a few days then what happens? Whoever doesnt like it do not play first few days

  • jofu77

    “However, we have increasingly received feedback from players who have decreased their play or even stopped playing completely because they want to “actually enjoy watching the NBA.” TOTAL BS!

  • MHDU2424

    I barely watch games every single night anyway….I play all sports and the whole fun of it for me is making lineups and cashing in on research

    I’ll watch games casually while making lineups or later games if I have a chance for a big hit

    I watch NFL obviously but the daily grind of regular season in other sports is more about lineup making than anything

    This whole people just wanna sit back and enjoy the games is complete garbage

  • Lathum

    @lggarruto said...

    If WE all take a stance and decrease play for even a few days then what happens? Whoever doesnt like it do not play first few days

    Nothing happens. The GPPs still fill up and you all miss out on the easy money from people depositing and playing for the first time.

  • sqwerl

    @Petergunz82 said...

    This DeRozan news is exactly why you need to allow late swaps. Is it fun to sweat (or not) a lineup with a guaranteed 0. Answer me that Matt from DK

    Great. I had derozen in lups.

  • lggarruto

    • 595

      RG Overall Ranking

    @Lathum said...

    Nothing happens. The GPPs still fill up and you all miss out on the easy money from people depositing and playing for the first time.

    Doubt it. Its not NFL and there is enough volume players that it would hurt. Casual guys arent playing higher then $27 buy ins with more than a few teams

  • sddalby

    i just looked at the tail end of this chain, so maybe this was mentioned before…but isn’t this just the beginning of the move to consolidate DK and FD into 1 company? Once they get the games and rules set up more similarly, then there’s no reason for them not to merge.

  • billholler

    @sddalby said...

    i just looked at the tail end of this chain, so maybe this was mentioned before…but isn’t this just the beginning of the move to consolidate DK and FD into 1 company? Once they get the games and rules set up more similarly, then there’s no reason for them not to merge.

    If that’s true then fine but no need to make changes that the majority is going to hate.

    As was mentioned earlier in this thread, let this continue up until the point where DFS becomes completely legal across the country or at least in a majority of the states. I assure you there will be another site pop up that actually gives us what we want instead of seemingly doing everything we don’t want.

  • Yeoman

    @FFguru71 said...

    I don’t play NBA so i’m personally unaffected by this news…that being said…my theory here is(even though DK will never admit it), they are doing this because the programs and the scripts these high rollers are using now, are so sophisticated that they probably have an element in them that will automatically swap player A for player B if player A is a late scratch. “Well, they still have to know that player is out”. Don’t be surprised if the programs they use are sophisticated enough to automatically learn that or know that and make the swap automatically. Which is completely unfair to those of you that sit by a computer reading tweets etc.

    I’d love for DFS get to the point, where just pure knowledge of the game you are playing, and the players in it, is the advantage in DFS. That’s how it should be. The problem is, if you made people just use their knowledge of the game/players(without extensive research) you’d probably eliminate 80-90% of the entire DFS community. It’s sad but true.

    Late-swap isn’t just about auto-swapping B for A if A is a scratch. Most of the basketball-knowledge part of DFS is thinking through matchups. If there’s a late lineup change that changes the matchups, it changes how I evaluate everybody in that game. What late swap does is let me make those judgments about every game on the slate and not just the first ones to go off.

    And if you read @markness’s message here, that’s precisely what DK is trying to do away with. It’s not avoiding the zeroes that’s the issue in his mind, what he objects to is that “now you are not only monitoring your own players to make sure they are not scratched; you actually should be monitoring all NBA news to capitalize on any new value picks that might transpire while players are still eligible to be swapped.”

  • rainbowtroutman

    @osuryanf said...

    A.) This would be a perfectly acceptable change if the NBA was more honest/open about who’s going to play and not play. We’ve discussed for years how there needs to be penalties for teams who wait until the last second to say who’s in/out. Set a designated time across the league (say, 1-2 hours before tipoff) that demands teams to post active rosters for that evening. That’s something the NBA/Adam Silver need to discuss, and something that needs changed in the NBA in general. If that was corrected at the NBA level, this would be a non issue.

    I doubt the NBA and Adam Silver is worried about late swap on DK. Do you really think they would change the rules or worry about it for DFS?

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    I am not a huge NBA guy but I think this is a pretty poor and shortsighted decision. My guess is they will get A LOT more complaints from people who get burned by late scratches than people who complained about DK having late swap to begin with. NBA is the one sport where I think late swap actually makes sense and is pretty important.

    I will NEVER buy the “I have a family and do not have time to follow twitter all night.” That is such an exaggeration. No one has to follow twitter all night. There are countless apps, including a VERY good one that this site has, that does all of that for you. My phone sits on the coffee table or couch ledge. I hear it beep. If the alert affects my lineups, I can get on the DK app and make a change in under a minute. If it does not affect me, I put my phone back down. The RG app has saved me from taking a zero too many times to remember.

  • sqwerl

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    I am not a huge NBA guy but I think this is a pretty poor and shortsighted decision. My guess is they will get A LOT more complaints from people who get burned by late scratches than people who complained about DK having late swap to begin with. NBA is the one sport where I think late swap actually makes sense and is pretty important.

    I will NEVER buy the “I have a family and do not have time to follow twitter all night.” That is such an exaggeration. No one has to follow twitter all night. There are countless apps, including a VERY good one that this site has, that does all of that for you. My phone sits on the coffee table or couch ledge. I hear it beep. If the alert affects my lineups, I can get on the DK app and make a change in under a minute. If it does not affect me, I put my phone back down. The RG app has saved me from taking a zero too many times to remember.

    Best post on this thread. DFS has to reflect the sport. NBA waits as long as possible to release their L ups.

  • billholler

    @scsa1998 said...

    And a 0 pretty much guarantees that you are losing money.

    Preaching to the choir. I have already sent 2 emails to DK in a very mean tone. Even used a bunch of words in all caps.

  • harg0055

    They are catering to the average user, which is what they need to grow – as well as the type of user that caused all of the original state regulations in the first place.

    I’m not saying I’m a huge fan of the change, but in all reality it now just introduces another factor into your lineup constructions – risk vs reward. I’m sure there will be a few nights where random scratches happen, but the vast majority of them will center around players who you know are dinged up. Just another factor you need to weigh when choosing players.

    I’m already over it. If you don’t like it, stop playing or go to a different site. That’s your right as a consumer.

  • billholler

    HA!! Email response from DK was the exact garbage canned response from ole Mark (the DK rep that ran and hid after seeing all the responses here).

  • billholler

    @harg0055 said...

    They are catering to the average user, which is what they need to grow

    That response is as senseless as the generic DK response. How does eliminating late swap cater to the average user? How many “average users” are even going to know about the no late swap until they realize they lost $3? The result is that “average user” gets pissed off and quits playing. Combine that with us regular degenerates and max entry guys that stop playing as much or quit all together and then what are you left with?

  • harg0055

    Because that average user that doesn’t monitor injuries – the edge everyone is complaining about losing – is now non-existent. That $3 that they are betting will most likely generate a larger overall return in the aggregate. That same average user might cash one or two more tournaments causing them to play a few more.

    Again, not saying I’m happy about the news, just saying they are trying to remove as many ‘edges’ as possible to distribute the overall purses more evenly. If the top 5% of players continue to be the only ones that are profitable, regulators will continue to fight the industry.

  • billholler

    RESPONSE 1:

    John D (DraftKings)
    Oct 13, 9:29 PM EDT

    Thank you for reaching out. After soliciting feedback from our players we believe that eliminating late swap will enhance the overall enjoyment of our NBA product. Removing late swap will allow all players to enjoy the games that are being played in real time, as opposed to being glued to social media ensuring that there is no news that may impact their lineups. We are very excited for what our NBA product holds this season.

    If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

    Best,
    Customer Experience Associate
    DraftKings, Inc

    RESPONSE 2:
    This was an internal decision made by our contest operations and technical teams. We are always looking for ways to create the most dynamic Daily Fantasy Sports platform, and we believe that this is a step in the right direction. We apologize for any inconvenience that this has caused you.

    Regards,
    Customer Experience Associate
    DraftKings, Inc

  • harg0055

    It’s not rocket science dude, they aren’t making the change with the intent to piss people off… Whether or not this back fires is yet to be determined. But the dots aren’t miles apart, they’re pretty easy to connect…

  • billholler

    @harg0055 said...

    just saying they are trying to remove as many ‘edges’ as possible to distribute the overall purses more evenly

    Making sure the payouts now include participation trophies for everyone that enters was more than enough in regards to “distributing the purses evenly”.

  • harg0055

    Not sure I really follow that one? But anyways, I’m not trying to make an argument for or against this change. I was just trying to toss out some theories on why it was done.

    But looking at your NBA history I can see why it probably ticks you off. Looks like you cashed pretty high on quite a few low $ tourneys. Guessing you are a volume player that relies on multiple lineup combinations based on those slate scratches? Def screws you over more than the single lineup folks…

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