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  • lineupofpeace

    Just got an e-mail about this. Also giving players multiple position eligibility.

  • billholler

    @bhdevault said...

    If you are not on a late scratch that is popular, it’s almost an auto-win.

    Gambling. No skill.

  • timski83

    I Agree Paul. Taking away an edge lots of sharps had is fine with me. I am just gonna to take the FD approach again to building NBA lineups! DK is still better than FD in my opinion. Late swaps still gonna happen for football so at least we have that.

  • crazypaul

    @billholler said...

    Gambling. No skill.

    Wrong. Normally, the only reason for a late scratch is 1) Injury or 2) Illness. Either way, if you RESEARCH, you will find something on that thing they call the “internet” about it before lock about 90% of the time. Then you can decide for yourself on what the odds are that player plays and with what effectiveness. There will be times you randomly get screwed, but if you do the work, you will profit way more then lose in those situations.

  • billholler

    @crazypaul said...

    Wrong. Normally, the only reason for a late scratch is 1) Injury or 2) Illness

    Absolutely wrong.

    Players get nights off for rest with no notice all the time especially older players. It happens on a regular basis in late games when players are off the next day. If you think it doesn’t happen or rarely happens, then you haven’t played much.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    DK had the superior fantasy NBA product and then just decided to make it worse??? Just a shame as the saying goes “ If it aint broke dont fix it”. People forget to realize that the 2nd half of the NBA season theres soooo much injury news that comes out late everday might make cash games unplayable. Really at this point theres no reason to play cash games at DK over yahoo, gpps yes but thats it.

  • depalma13

    You should never lose before the games begin.

  • crazypaul

    @billholler said...

    Absolutely wrong.

    Players get nights off for rest with no notice all the time especially older players. It happens on a regular basis in late games when players are off the next day. If you think it doesn’t happen or rarely happens, then you haven’t played much.

    Like I said, I played GPP’s 5-6 nights a week until about March last year all on Fanduel. I also had a GPP cash rate of 41% and a cash game rate of 58% as well as a top 5 GPP hit. Obviously late news did not hurt me much. (Not trying to humble brag, just showing I was relatively successful)

    Yes, players rest on B2B if they are older. However, if you RESEARCH, you will learn the patterns of when these guys sit and how their coaches treat them at home versus away on B2B’s and 3 of 4’s ect. It’s really not rocket science.

  • Epignosis

    • 502

      RG Overall Ranking

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    I haven’t seen anybody raise this issue, but this is my main concern:

    I am less bothered about late scratches as I am about the fact that I do not rely on optimizers or scripts to build my lineups- I craft each one manually. I work a full time job, I have a wife and three children, and I cook supper for my family every night.

    I also build 50-150 lineups every night- by hand. This often meant I would plug in the early players I knew I wanted, and then leave later players so that I could finish building my lineups after the first game(s) started. Without the opportunity to change players later, I find I do not have enough time to create the number of lineups I would like. I end up stuck with a high number of duplicates or “trains.”

    The fun of lineup building is severely diminished when I am in a mad rush to create all my lineups by 7pm EST. Last night was the first time I didn’t have fun building lineups, and I anticipate it won’t be the last.

  • Yeoman

    What’s ironic about DK’s explanation for the change is that last night was the first time all preseason that I paid no attention to the games. Tinkering with my lineup as the night goes on, looking for possible value openings, cranking up the variance if I’m crapping out or moving to high-floor guys if I’m on top—that’s a big part of it for me. Take that away so there’s nothing to do after 7 but twiddle my thumbs and watch the numbers scroll on the screen, and what’s left is pretty dull. I’d forgotten why I don’t play at FD.

  • osuryanf

    @crazypaul said...

    Like I said, I played GPP’s 5-6 nights a week until about March last year all on Fanduel. I also had a GPP cash rate of 41% and a cash game rate of 58% as well as a top 5 GPP hit. Obviously late news did not hurt me much. (Not trying to humble brag, just showing I was relatively successful)

    Yes, players rest on B2B if they are older. However, if you RESEARCH, you will learn the patterns of when these guys sit and how their coaches treat them at home versus away on B2B’s and 3 of 4’s ect. It’s really not rocket science.

    If your GPP Cash rate is 41% then there’s no way you’re making very good money, that’s insanely high. Sounds like tons of min cash lineups built with no real potential. I thought the whole point of GPP’s is to take risks. I don’t know my GPP cash rate but I’d be shocked if it’s higher than 20-25%.

    That was off topic. Anyway, my thinking will always be the same on the late swap issue. Until the NBA puts in strict protocol on listing players as Questionable/Probably/Doubtful etc., this new change will remain ridiculous. Changing the late swap only for the one sport that is the LAUGHING STOCK of pro sports injury designations makes no sense.

  • mellofellowsu

    @billholler said...

    Absolutely wrong.

    Players get nights off for rest with no notice all the time especially older players. It happens on a regular basis in late games when players are off the next day. If you think it doesn’t happen or rarely happens, then you haven’t played much.

    I played most every slate with 5 or more games last year for the past 2 years. Vast majority of times a player was going to be out for rest, we knew about it far in advance.

    I think we’re going in circles here. Those that much prefer late swap aren’t going to change the minds of those who don’t see it as a hinderance to their success. There are good NBA DFS players on both sides of the argument so really just seems to be a matter of preference.

  • mblaylock10

    @crazypaul said...

    Some of you act like not being able to late swap is the end times. I’d also like to point out that most of you on this thread are here to complain, so you think you are in the majority in hating this change when in fact you are not. There was an edge to be had with late swap, but there is an even greater edge by not having it if you would stop complaining and really think about it.

    I agree with this.

    There’s a lot of skill involved of knowing when to fold on a player listed as questionable versus when to hold them. This could be based on the team they are playing, the player history itself, injury history, opinions of team officials and/or team media, upcoming schedule, and many other variables. There is certainly an edge to be had here as an NBA aficionado. Also, I believe this is quite helpful in retaining new NBA DFS players as It can be daunting following NBA news after lock, juggling other responsibilities, and then grasping the concept of late swap on the fly. It (late swap) can also be a quick way to alienate a large group of players that just accept the fact that they’re at an unfair advantage and quit outright. I think this levels out the playing field.

    And sure, totally unanticipated scratches will occur on occasion. Just as unanticipated injuries occur. That’s while they are unanticipated. We’re all in the same boat there.

  • Yeoman

    @mellofellowsu said...

    There are good NBA DFS players on both sides of the argument so really just seems to be a matter of preference.

    Isn’t that the point? We had a choice, before, of which way we wanted to play.

  • mailnurs

    FD and DK auto lock are not comparable because FD limits your options to only 2 players per position with one C . On DK you have more options, therefore your chances of getting screwed by late news are greater. I would spend 300-500 nightly on DK GPP, but doing that now would be a waste of time and money. It is useless to research during the day for NBA anyways because the news starts flowing an hour before each game. It’s already a disaster but lets just face it…..DK doesn’t care. All you can do to protest is stop playing NBA daily on DK. I feel more comfortable giving my money to FD with the friendlier “auto lock” feature.

  • billholler

    @mblaylock10 said...

    There’s a lot of skill involved of knowing when to fold on a player listed as questionable versus when to hold them.

    One more time, the overwhelming majority here are talking about healthy late scratches. No one is complaining about getting a zero on a late scratch from a player that was iffy to begin with. And like has been mentioned 100 times in this thread, the Spurs and Cavs (especially the Spurs) are notorious for late healthy scratches.

  • dds2190

    Total and utter bs. Yes this happens but then you have a random situation like the Spurs “resting“all their stars a few years ago in a road game at Miami just to stick it to the league.

    This phenomenon is becoming more and more prevalent, to the point where you had teams like the Kings that were “resting“guys for no good reason. Just because you haven’t been bitten by it that often doesn’t mean that it’s not an issue.

    What was the big problem with late swap? Tell me straight up how it was such a problem and how this is a viable solution to said problem.

  • hegemony

    @Markness said...

    eived feedback from players who have decreased their play or even stopped playing completely because they want to “actually enjoy watching the NBA.” We do see the value of late-swap and there are no plans of removing it for other sports, but for NBA specifically, it has become cle

    Funny how the reasons offered for this change are always stated the same way every time. It’s for “us.” I guess they don’t give a shit if we miss NFL games. That’s apparently totally different. It’s such bullshit. The funny thing is that I’m not fully opposed to the change. I think one can use it to their advantage. Cousins had 16% ownership last night- and that was with Whiteside out. Sure, I got burned the night before, but that fear of a late scratch can be leveraged.

  • mailnurs

    @dds2190 said...

    What was the big problem with late swap? Tell me straight up how it was such a problem and how this is a viable solution to said problem.

    HAHA thats the real issue is we were told a lie IMO. If things dont add up….its because someone is lying. If DK just states……we are eliminating late swap so we can make more money…..then ya we would all bitch but at least we know the truth. When you tell a bunch of people opposed to the idea you are doing it cause they asked you too….then the masses become confused and start voicing their opposition.

  • tvsfrink

    The obvious solution is to play a sport where players don’t suddenly decide to take the night off or are suddenly given the night off….in other words, anything but NBA.

  • billholler

    @dds2190 said...

    What was the big problem with late swap? Tell me straight up how it was such a problem and how this is a viable solution to said problem.

    Because you are not intelligent or mature enough to enjoy a basketball game without the assistance of DK who is only looking out for your best interest.

  • billholler

    @tvsfrink said...

    The obvious solution is to play a sport where players don’t suddenly decide to take the night off or are suddenly given the night off….in other words, anything but NBA.

    Or baseball which is one of the reasons I avoid MLB. I do believe soccer has been mentioned too but I have no clue on that one.

  • Yeoman

    @billholler said...

    Or baseball which is one of the reasons I avoid MLB. I do believe soccer has been mentioned too but I have no clue on that one.

    Soccer’s much more extreme than NBA. Teams are only allowed three substitutions per match, so 8 of the 11 have to play the full 90 minutes. And even forgetting injuries, it just isn’t physically possible for a player (except for central defenders and goalies) to play 180 match minutes every week over a nine-month season. Managers have no choice, they have to rotate their players. Every game’s lineup is different. Imagine NBA with no substitutions, whoever you start has to play 48.

    I don’t think it’s an accident that the two sites that offer soccer happen to be the two sites that have a late-swap feature. It’s unplayable otherwise—or maybe it’s playable but the entire game would turn on how many of your players happen to be in the lineup that day.

  • bighop04

    @billholler said...

    One more time, the overwhelming majority here are talking about healthy late scratches. No one is complaining about getting a zero on a late scratch from a player that was iffy to begin with. And like has been mentioned 100 times in this thread, the Spurs and Cavs (especially the Spurs) are notorious for late healthy scratches.

    I hate the change too, but how many times do you really roster Spurs? Plus Kawhi and LMA suit up most nights anyway, the thing that will suck is with late scratches you just won’t be able to get in new value. You shouldn’t be getting a zero from a Spur for the most part. And Cleveland tips off 50% of their games on lineup lock most of the time anyway, so the news is usually out before gametime.

    The change sucks but everyone here acts like this change is only affecting them, it will affect everyone. Most people playing NBA the last 3 months of the season when the likelihood of healthy scratches increase are grinders anyway, the news edge was not as big as you would like to think. The team that worries me more than any of them are playing Warriors and Clippers probably later in the season, so you can either just fade those teams or roll the dice on the scrubs to start or the stars to play the minutes, it can create a nice edge if you are right.

  • Gfry3

    GS and LAC are going to decimate DFS lineups late in the year. And the notion that we can study patterns to determine who gets a healthy rest? are you serious? ha I would like to see that in a spreadsheet. Get that first report “Pop MAY rest players” May? so yes or no? And Players? do we mean Parker or Kawhi or Pau or all 3.

    And yes we are all in the same boat, that boat is just sinking and we are supposed to be happy to go down with it.

  • billholler

    @Gfry3 said...

    GS and LAC are going to decimate DFS lineups late in the year

    This is my secondary concern. To begin the season there won’t be many if any late healthy scratches so DK won’t receive any complaints and they will assume the change was a success. Probably won’t be a late healthy scratch that affects us until close to the all star break. By then DK will be reveling in the genius of their changes and be shocked that people would suddenly start complaining.

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