NBA FORUM

  • lineupofpeace

    Just got an e-mail about this. Also giving players multiple position eligibility.

  • depalma13

    You should never lose before the games begin.

  • crazypaul

    @billholler said...

    Absolutely wrong.

    Players get nights off for rest with no notice all the time especially older players. It happens on a regular basis in late games when players are off the next day. If you think it doesn’t happen or rarely happens, then you haven’t played much.

    Like I said, I played GPP’s 5-6 nights a week until about March last year all on Fanduel. I also had a GPP cash rate of 41% and a cash game rate of 58% as well as a top 5 GPP hit. Obviously late news did not hurt me much. (Not trying to humble brag, just showing I was relatively successful)

    Yes, players rest on B2B if they are older. However, if you RESEARCH, you will learn the patterns of when these guys sit and how their coaches treat them at home versus away on B2B’s and 3 of 4’s ect. It’s really not rocket science.

  • Epignosis

    • 474

      RG Overall Ranking

    I haven’t seen anybody raise this issue, but this is my main concern:

    I am less bothered about late scratches as I am about the fact that I do not rely on optimizers or scripts to build my lineups- I craft each one manually. I work a full time job, I have a wife and three children, and I cook supper for my family every night.

    I also build 50-150 lineups every night- by hand. This often meant I would plug in the early players I knew I wanted, and then leave later players so that I could finish building my lineups after the first game(s) started. Without the opportunity to change players later, I find I do not have enough time to create the number of lineups I would like. I end up stuck with a high number of duplicates or “trains.”

    The fun of lineup building is severely diminished when I am in a mad rush to create all my lineups by 7pm EST. Last night was the first time I didn’t have fun building lineups, and I anticipate it won’t be the last.

  • Yeoman

    What’s ironic about DK’s explanation for the change is that last night was the first time all preseason that I paid no attention to the games. Tinkering with my lineup as the night goes on, looking for possible value openings, cranking up the variance if I’m crapping out or moving to high-floor guys if I’m on top—that’s a big part of it for me. Take that away so there’s nothing to do after 7 but twiddle my thumbs and watch the numbers scroll on the screen, and what’s left is pretty dull. I’d forgotten why I don’t play at FD.

  • osuryanf

    @crazypaul said...

    Like I said, I played GPP’s 5-6 nights a week until about March last year all on Fanduel. I also had a GPP cash rate of 41% and a cash game rate of 58% as well as a top 5 GPP hit. Obviously late news did not hurt me much. (Not trying to humble brag, just showing I was relatively successful)

    Yes, players rest on B2B if they are older. However, if you RESEARCH, you will learn the patterns of when these guys sit and how their coaches treat them at home versus away on B2B’s and 3 of 4’s ect. It’s really not rocket science.

    If your GPP Cash rate is 41% then there’s no way you’re making very good money, that’s insanely high. Sounds like tons of min cash lineups built with no real potential. I thought the whole point of GPP’s is to take risks. I don’t know my GPP cash rate but I’d be shocked if it’s higher than 20-25%.

    That was off topic. Anyway, my thinking will always be the same on the late swap issue. Until the NBA puts in strict protocol on listing players as Questionable/Probably/Doubtful etc., this new change will remain ridiculous. Changing the late swap only for the one sport that is the LAUGHING STOCK of pro sports injury designations makes no sense.

  • mellofellowsu

    @billholler said...

    Absolutely wrong.

    Players get nights off for rest with no notice all the time especially older players. It happens on a regular basis in late games when players are off the next day. If you think it doesn’t happen or rarely happens, then you haven’t played much.

    I played most every slate with 5 or more games last year for the past 2 years. Vast majority of times a player was going to be out for rest, we knew about it far in advance.

    I think we’re going in circles here. Those that much prefer late swap aren’t going to change the minds of those who don’t see it as a hinderance to their success. There are good NBA DFS players on both sides of the argument so really just seems to be a matter of preference.

  • mblaylock10

    @crazypaul said...

    Some of you act like not being able to late swap is the end times. I’d also like to point out that most of you on this thread are here to complain, so you think you are in the majority in hating this change when in fact you are not. There was an edge to be had with late swap, but there is an even greater edge by not having it if you would stop complaining and really think about it.

    I agree with this.

    There’s a lot of skill involved of knowing when to fold on a player listed as questionable versus when to hold them. This could be based on the team they are playing, the player history itself, injury history, opinions of team officials and/or team media, upcoming schedule, and many other variables. There is certainly an edge to be had here as an NBA aficionado. Also, I believe this is quite helpful in retaining new NBA DFS players as It can be daunting following NBA news after lock, juggling other responsibilities, and then grasping the concept of late swap on the fly. It (late swap) can also be a quick way to alienate a large group of players that just accept the fact that they’re at an unfair advantage and quit outright. I think this levels out the playing field.

    And sure, totally unanticipated scratches will occur on occasion. Just as unanticipated injuries occur. That’s while they are unanticipated. We’re all in the same boat there.

  • Yeoman

    @mellofellowsu said...

    There are good NBA DFS players on both sides of the argument so really just seems to be a matter of preference.

    Isn’t that the point? We had a choice, before, of which way we wanted to play.

  • billholler

    @mblaylock10 said...

    There’s a lot of skill involved of knowing when to fold on a player listed as questionable versus when to hold them.

    One more time, the overwhelming majority here are talking about healthy late scratches. No one is complaining about getting a zero on a late scratch from a player that was iffy to begin with. And like has been mentioned 100 times in this thread, the Spurs and Cavs (especially the Spurs) are notorious for late healthy scratches.

  • dds2190

    Total and utter bs. Yes this happens but then you have a random situation like the Spurs “resting“all their stars a few years ago in a road game at Miami just to stick it to the league.

    This phenomenon is becoming more and more prevalent, to the point where you had teams like the Kings that were “resting“guys for no good reason. Just because you haven’t been bitten by it that often doesn’t mean that it’s not an issue.

    What was the big problem with late swap? Tell me straight up how it was such a problem and how this is a viable solution to said problem.

  • hegemony

    @Markness said...

    eived feedback from players who have decreased their play or even stopped playing completely because they want to “actually enjoy watching the NBA.” We do see the value of late-swap and there are no plans of removing it for other sports, but for NBA specifically, it has become cle

    Funny how the reasons offered for this change are always stated the same way every time. It’s for “us.” I guess they don’t give a shit if we miss NFL games. That’s apparently totally different. It’s such bullshit. The funny thing is that I’m not fully opposed to the change. I think one can use it to their advantage. Cousins had 16% ownership last night- and that was with Whiteside out. Sure, I got burned the night before, but that fear of a late scratch can be leveraged.

  • tvsfrink

    The obvious solution is to play a sport where players don’t suddenly decide to take the night off or are suddenly given the night off….in other words, anything but NBA.

  • billholler

    @dds2190 said...

    What was the big problem with late swap? Tell me straight up how it was such a problem and how this is a viable solution to said problem.

    Because you are not intelligent or mature enough to enjoy a basketball game without the assistance of DK who is only looking out for your best interest.

  • billholler

    @tvsfrink said...

    The obvious solution is to play a sport where players don’t suddenly decide to take the night off or are suddenly given the night off….in other words, anything but NBA.

    Or baseball which is one of the reasons I avoid MLB. I do believe soccer has been mentioned too but I have no clue on that one.

  • Yeoman

    @billholler said...

    Or baseball which is one of the reasons I avoid MLB. I do believe soccer has been mentioned too but I have no clue on that one.

    Soccer’s much more extreme than NBA. Teams are only allowed three substitutions per match, so 8 of the 11 have to play the full 90 minutes. And even forgetting injuries, it just isn’t physically possible for a player (except for central defenders and goalies) to play 180 match minutes every week over a nine-month season. Managers have no choice, they have to rotate their players. Every game’s lineup is different. Imagine NBA with no substitutions, whoever you start has to play 48.

    I don’t think it’s an accident that the two sites that offer soccer happen to be the two sites that have a late-swap feature. It’s unplayable otherwise—or maybe it’s playable but the entire game would turn on how many of your players happen to be in the lineup that day.

  • bighop04

    @billholler said...

    One more time, the overwhelming majority here are talking about healthy late scratches. No one is complaining about getting a zero on a late scratch from a player that was iffy to begin with. And like has been mentioned 100 times in this thread, the Spurs and Cavs (especially the Spurs) are notorious for late healthy scratches.

    I hate the change too, but how many times do you really roster Spurs? Plus Kawhi and LMA suit up most nights anyway, the thing that will suck is with late scratches you just won’t be able to get in new value. You shouldn’t be getting a zero from a Spur for the most part. And Cleveland tips off 50% of their games on lineup lock most of the time anyway, so the news is usually out before gametime.

    The change sucks but everyone here acts like this change is only affecting them, it will affect everyone. Most people playing NBA the last 3 months of the season when the likelihood of healthy scratches increase are grinders anyway, the news edge was not as big as you would like to think. The team that worries me more than any of them are playing Warriors and Clippers probably later in the season, so you can either just fade those teams or roll the dice on the scrubs to start or the stars to play the minutes, it can create a nice edge if you are right.

  • Gfry3

    GS and LAC are going to decimate DFS lineups late in the year. And the notion that we can study patterns to determine who gets a healthy rest? are you serious? ha I would like to see that in a spreadsheet. Get that first report “Pop MAY rest players” May? so yes or no? And Players? do we mean Parker or Kawhi or Pau or all 3.

    And yes we are all in the same boat, that boat is just sinking and we are supposed to be happy to go down with it.

  • billholler

    @Gfry3 said...

    GS and LAC are going to decimate DFS lineups late in the year

    This is my secondary concern. To begin the season there won’t be many if any late healthy scratches so DK won’t receive any complaints and they will assume the change was a success. Probably won’t be a late healthy scratch that affects us until close to the all star break. By then DK will be reveling in the genius of their changes and be shocked that people would suddenly start complaining.

  • mellofellowsu

    @Gfry3 said...

    Get that first report “Pop MAY rest players” May? so yes or no?

    If that’s the report it seems pretty simple to me. Don’t play them. See how easy that is?

    Or if you determine that the marginal benefit of getting Kawhi at an almost nonexistent ownership is worth the risk of a negative outcome (a 0), roster him.

  • lionssuck

    @Gfry3 said...

    GS and LAC are going to decimate DFS lineups late in the year. And the notion that we can study patterns to determine who gets a healthy rest? are you serious? ha I would like to see that in a spreadsheet. Get that first report “Pop MAY rest players” May? so yes or no? And Players? do we mean Parker or Kawhi or Pau or all 3.

    And yes we are all in the same boat, that boat is just sinking and we are supposed to be happy to go down with it.

    no, we are not all in the same boat. Some of us are in a yacht & some of us are in a canoe. If I max enter a tournament, & lets say Boogie or Curry are 50/50 to play on a given night, I can take a chance and sprinkle them in some lineups knowing they are going to be much lower owned & have a definite advantage over somebody that can only afford to play an entry or two & can’t take the risk to play a guy from the late slate that is 50/50 to play. No late swap is a big advantage to multi-entry players.

  • mblaylock10

    @billholler said...

    One more time, the overwhelming majority here are talking about healthy late scratches. No one is complaining about getting a zero on a late scratch from a player that was iffy to begin with. And like has been mentioned 100 times in this thread, the Spurs and Cavs (especially the Spurs) are notorious for late healthy scratches.

    And on the very same post I clearly stated that unanticipated scratches are akin to unanticipated injuries. Nobody has a clear advantage in that situation. It’s evened out the playing field if anything.

  • mblaylock10

    @lionssuck said...

    no, we are not all in the same boat. Some of us are in a yacht & some of us are in a canoe. If I max enter a tournament, & lets say Boogie or Curry are 50/50 to play on a given night, I can take a chance and sprinkle them in some lineups knowing they are going to be much lower owned & have a definite advantage over somebody that can only afford to play an entry or two & can’t take the risk to play a guy from the late slate that is 50/50 to play. No late swap is a big advantage to multi-entry players.

    I don’t agree. If you’re only playing an entry or two in large multi entry GPP most would say you’re already at a disadvantage. Regardless of late swap. I love playing single entry or 3 entry max GPP’s for this very reason if I’m just throwing out a few lineups on any given night.

  • Skyway

    Sweating lineups is fun as soon as you get burned and take a zero nights over , and to claim because we disagree with the decision we haven’t “though about it” we have and it still sucks , what source are you using to claim majority!!

  • AntFer

    It’s only 1 pre season night but i must admit i had my most profitable night in nba for preseason. The late slate’s %‘s were down and since i make muliple lineups i was able to take more risks. I have a feeling this might actually backfire for the people complaining. The casual player wants to make a lineup and not have to stay on the computer all night waiting for info. A player w/ a high bankroll is able to make lineups with and without the late hammers. So if a player gets scratched that casual player is getting a 0 while eventhough ill get that 0 on a few lineups i also have plenty of lineups without that 0 cause i made extra lineups.. Once the casual player realizes they r still losing and it isnt cause of late swap im sure they will find another issue to complain about..

  • lggarruto

    • 366

      RG Overall Ranking

    @dds2190 said...

    But I don’t understand taking away the option for those that do see it. Don’t say “a small amt of people didn’t like it this way, so we’re changing it and gonna tick off the majority”.
    I’ve had times where I know I’m not going to be able to check so I don’t play certain nights. I’ve also had times where I check just in time and swap late. Also been burned by not checking. I can deal with it being on me, I’m far less forgiving when I see someone is out and can’t do anything about it.

    This change does not make me “rest easier” or anything of the sort. I still check my lineups and when something like last night happens and I had a decent lineup that missed cashing I don’t want to play.

    This is my exact sentiment. If its on me then I can live with it. How can I get in a $1000 contest Knowing there is a chance that I will get a DNP Rest. I can’t and I won’t now. For MellofellowSU- I’m glad you agree and that you say many play on FD well the reason I didn’t play on FD is for the swap. If DK didn’t have the swap to start maybe I never sign up on DK. For everyone and anyone that scours twitter for the info its a waste of time. Just download RG app it takes 3 minutes. Yes I have kids, Yes I work, Yes I play a big volume.

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