NBA FORUM

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  • lineupofpeace

    Just got an e-mail about this. Also giving players multiple position eligibility.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @Markness said...

    Hey Guys,

    I wanted to share a little more on our reasoning for removing late-swap for NBA

    I think late-swap was initially viewed by many new and casual customers as a necessary safe guard against a last-minute “scratch,” which has made late-swap a very popular feature for DraftKings over the past few years. While late-swap can help prevent the poor experience of getting a zero in your lineup, there are other uses for the feature which ultimately require users to monitor news and scramble to make last-minute adjustments to their lineups up until tip-off of the last game of the night. For example, often times a late scratch will result in other players becoming valuable picks. So now you are not only monitoring your own players to make sure they are not scratched; you actually should be monitoring all NBA news to capitalize on any new value picks that might transpire while players are still eligible to be swapped.

    So this ended up just being a total canned response with the recent pending merger. It would be nice if these reps for these sites can actually provide some transparency but I guess apparently the paying customers don’t deserve honest responses smh.

  • CNTDFS

    325k prize pool on a saturday night with 8 games and first place is paying 20k in the sharpshooter. Paying 26.9% of the field. 16991-34285 get $5 as a min cash, 26% of the prize pool paid out will be less than double your money back . How can a company which their product is entirely based upon data and statistics, be so AWFUL with its payouts and have them fluctuate horrendously on a daily basis. They literally could make 2-3 pay out structures and automate them into every single tourney. 10% of field 15% of field and 20% of field cashes. Anything over this just completely dilutes the pay outs and honestly anyone that has a +ROI is losing money because of their ineptitude. any type of large field GPP should never ever pay under 10% to first. I really can see it clear as day. FD and DK are sorting through the shit, paying all the legal fees, clearing the path albeit while dragging a terrible overall product through the mud that has gotten worse and worse year by year, for the next player to come in cater to the customers do things with efficiency, some sort of leadership and dk and fd will be a memory. Thats what happens when you run your business like a frat house.

  • L3gOnD

    DK has really taken the fun and enjoyment out of the game with removing late swap. It is remarkable the argument they try to have hold up in court is that this is an industry mainly of skill and not chance and yet they continuously implement rules to make the game the exact opposite. They don’t care about the players’ ROI but they should, as it should be their #1 proof that this is a game of skill when they can show people have substantial positive ROIs over the course of time. Two ways they’re destroying the players’ ROI is by increasing rake and by getting rid of late swap. To run an industry like this and not be able to change players that have not begun playing, especially in a sport like the NBA, adds in such a degree of luck that it’s incomprehensible to me that they deem this a good idea. People are consistently having to chalk 0s and have dead money in play when there is an easy fix to this, one that had already existed. I understand people don’t want to be glued to their phones all night but the fact is those people had the option to go to FanDuel. Also it is not difficult to get alerts sent to your phone and if someone is announced out you could click global swap; it takes two minutes. However now there is no option so we are now left with having to role the dice (gamble) on players that are questionable and doubtful. We also have zero control over people being announced out in games due to rest. In a league where over half the games tip after lineups lock and a league that is physical and plays every night, not having late swap is a joke. DK really dropped the ball here and it is an easy argument against them that this game has become more luck and less skill. Having players take 0s for no reason or not having the ability to adjust the lineups on injury news is unbelievable. Whoever runs these companies repeatedly show that they just don’t get it. Pay a 15% rake and about once a week you’ll have dead money in play as well; what a fun, enjoyable change for the better of the game =/.

  • billholler

    Been a while since anyone posted here. Now that we are a month into the season, what are everyone’s thoughts? Some of my random thoughts:

    There was a lot of talk early in this thread about DK having higher payout small slates for late and later games because more people would enter because we would know who was in or out that night. That was true for the 1st week but since then DK has lowered the payouts despite zero overlay. Makes no sense to me.

    The thread posting late healthy scratches seems to have died out because we all here have seemingly accepted the consequences even though it still should be unnecessary to accept a zero from a player in a late game on a full slate.

    As many expected, the Spurs along with some Lakers and Warriors have become almost unplayable on full slates with late games which makes for some intriguing plays every night. He hasn’t played well the last week, but how is Kawhi Leonard always around $8000?

  • Njsum1

    I am still loving the no late swap for NBA, it really is just so much more enjoyable. I know it will probably suck at some point to take a zero, yet IMO it’s worth not having to be checking news all night, and I really like people people not being able to swap into sub optimal plays to suck out cause the lineup they made is hot garbage.

    If the only reason people were using late swap was to substitute for a random scratch I can see the argument for it, yet a good portion of the time it was being used to back load lineups and wait for news or to swap out players in order to suck out against a superior lineup.

    I’ve also heard the argument, that people are on their devices anyway, so what’s the big deal to have to pay attention to the news. Well, it was a lot more than that. Once news hit, if it was significant it affected your entire lineup, and people who make multiple lineups then have to go and change the whole lineup to accommodate for superior value plays that emerged. It was truly a headache, it was never just a 1 for 1 swap, it was redoing entire lineups that I worked hours to set. It’s just nice to know that no matter what, once tip off happens my lineups are set and I don’t have to think anymore.

  • KindGuy

    I stopped updating the late scratch thread because I think it’s clear that it doesn’t happen too much to be a significant factor.

    I hated the new move at first but I’m loving it now. It’s freed up my life so much more. Totally worth it. I can now take a nap after 7 pm!

  • jimfred82

    • Blogger of the Month

    @billholler said...

    The thread posting late healthy scratches seems to have died out because we all here have seemingly accepted the consequences even though it still should be unnecessary to accept a zero from a player in a late game on a full slate.

    It wasn’t that. I think people just stopped posting in it because, for some, it was losing focus and wasn’t being edited to avoid that, so I just figured I’d let it die before it went completely off the rails.

  • tvsfrink

    @billholler said...

    No late swap for NFL would completely kill the Thur-Mon and Mon-Thur slates while seriously diminishing the Sun-Mon slate. No one at DK or FD is that stupid. Are they?

    Apparently they are, since FD doesn’t allow late swap for anything.

  • oldangrygamer

    no late swap for the NFL would mean only .25 cent contests
    i would be damned to enter a 27 dollar contest and not be sure about something.
    freaking NBA players get hurt during warm ups… it sucks.

  • Gfry3

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2449632/How-check-phone-The-average-person-does-110-times-DAY-6-seconds-evening.html

    I understand this isn’t 100% universal etc, but I heard some stat along these lines the other day and laughed as all of these people who say “ohh I hated checked twitter all night it ruined everything” ha really because at 7:01 you put your phone away and don’t look at it until the next day! Comical! I hate no late swap more every day, its not even about injuries as much as strategy, like others have said everyone pushed “skill” game but how much we now rely on luck is amazing. Such an awful decision, thanks DK.

  • lggarruto

    • 362

      RG Overall Ranking

    I absolutely hate when I’m in a good position and I would be able to swap off a higher expected ownership guy to a lower expected just to try to move up and cash more. Its a shot most of the time but to not have that option it irks me. I tend to not even watch the games now and I play way less than I used to. After football if I play once a week that will be a lot. Just hoping they don’t screw with the baseball the way it is now.

  • jimfred82

    • Blogger of the Month

    It is quite possible we are taking a slightly closed-minded approach to this, guys. Sure, most of us would prefer to have late swap back, but I think we’re overestimating the size of us. I think someone said that there were 100,000 people on RG a few months back (maybe it was 200,000), but there are millions of daily DK and FD users. Now that the sites are showing just how low the amount of people who are profitable really is (even though we already suspected this), it’s quite possible that those millions of people who don’t make up RG did prefer the non-late swap. I got hosed by it last night too with the Temple not starting news, but, overall, it hasn’t really been a gigantic issue.

    I think the reality is, DK may not be pulling the wool over our eyes like many people believe. I get goose-egged now and then just like everybody else, but overall, given the fact that FD has always been huge and never had late swap, it may very well be true that all of the casual users do prefer to not have to worry about it. Whether they are accessing news/social media/whatever or not is irrelevant, because they might just be seeing how their players are doing.

    Who knows. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I may be going overboard here, for sure. But, either way, it isn’t changing any time soon, and the only shot we have is to either just go to yahoo, or hope that the FD/DK merger opens up a variety of different games that include late swap. I will admit, however, that the amount of arguments in my household has gone down significantly sans late-swap, so I probably won’t play that style of game should it become an option again.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    @Gfry3 said...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2449632/How-check-phone-The-average-person-does-110-times-DAY-6-seconds-evening.html

    I understand this isn’t 100% universal etc, but I heard some stat along these lines the other day and laughed as all of these people who say “ohh I hated checked twitter all night it ruined everything” ha really because at 7:01 you put your phone away and don’t look at it until the next day! Comical! I hate no late swap more every day, its not even about injuries as much as strategy, like others have said everyone pushed “skill” game but how much we now rely on luck is amazing. Such an awful decision, thanks DK.

    Exactly I always thought the “ I don’t want to have to check my phone” argument was just laughable and nonsense. Everyone is on their phones 24/7 these days and this was just a lame excuse for DK helping out the players max entering its just pretty obvious.

  • Njsum1

    @sjs1890 said...

    Exactly I always thought the “ I don’t want to have to check my phone” argument was just laughable and nonsense. Everyone is on their phones 24/7 these days and this was just a lame excuse for DK helping out the players max entering its just pretty obvious.

    I’ve seen you write this multiple times, and you just don’t get it. Yes I agree, everyone is on their devices all day, and can easily get an alert. The problem is not just swapping out one player for another. Most times you can’t find an adequate sub with the same position eligibility and salary constraint so you now have to change multiple positions in multiple lineups and redo almost every lineup you spent hours making. Yet that’s not even half the point. If extreme value opens up, you now have to redo ALL your lineups to accommodate the 3k point guard who’s going to get 35 minutes of run. It’s rarely just swapping out a scratched player. Plus let’s be honest, most people were using late swap to backload lineups and wait for news knowing that others don’t have the time for that, or swap into a sub optimal play and hoping to suck out against a superior lineup. A lot of people, myself included prefer to put my work in and once tipoff hits, I’m done, I can now enjoy my evening. So regardless if people are on their devices all the time, it’s literally hours of more work, redoing multiple lineups, not just a simple 1 for 1 swap. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on late swap, and you’re certainly entitled to yours, just stop with the argument that it’s “so quick and easy you just get an alert and make a swap “ as that is hardly ever the case.

    Also this post is coming from someone who had Garrett Temple in 4 out of 5 lineups last night.

  • sjs1890

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    Yes I admit I used late swap to backload my lineups but so what. Not wanting to put it any effort after tipoff when at times the most important news comes out is just laziness. Now everyone just flocks to the same players its quite boring honestly.

  • jimfred82

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Njsum1 said...

    I’ve seen you write this multiple times, and you just don’t get it. Yes I agree, everyone is on their devices all day, and can easily get an alert. The problem is not just swapping out one player for another. Most times you can’t find an adequate sub with the same position eligibility and salary constraint so you now have to change multiple positions in multiple lineups and redo almost every lineup you spent hours making. Yet that’s not even half the point. If extreme value opens up, you now have to redo ALL your lineups to accommodate the 3k point guard who’s going to get 35 minutes of run. It’s rarely just swapping out a scratched player. Plus let’s be honest, most people were using late swap to backload lineups and wait for news knowing that others don’t have the time for that, or swap into a sub optimal play and hoping to suck out against a superior lineup. A lot of people, myself included prefer to put my work in and once tipoff hits, I’m done, I can now enjoy my evening. So regardless if people are on their devices all the time, it’s literally hours of more work, redoing multiple lineups, not just a simple 1 for 1 swap. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on late swap, and you’re certainly entitled to yours, just stop with the argument that it’s “so quick and easy you just get an alert and make a swap “ as that is hardly ever the case.

    Also this post is coming from someone who had Garrett Temple in 4 out of 5 lineups last night.

    agreed. and I’m 95% sure redick was probably cheaper than him, too, which was an easy swap. but i am in agreement with you on this one.

  • peachfuzz

    • Blogger of the Month

    Late swap not affecting me anymore. I moved 100% of my play over to FD, and I am having my best year ever so far.

  • KindGuy

    I’m loving the no late swap. I was furious at first, but I’m so freaking happy the change was made. Life is a lot less hectic after lock and my eyes can take a break from the screen!!! Call it variance or luck, but after a rough first few days of the season, I haven’t been burned by a late scratch whatsoever and I’ve played virtually every slate night.

    And no, it’s not as easy as just checking your phone. Back when late swap did exist, that would mean I would have to go back to my computer, and start computing and number crunching all over again. Open excel, edit projections, run lineup opimtizer, etc. it was just too much time devoted and it honestly killled the fun.

    Great decision, DK.

  • SkateFiend

    I’m wondering why DFS sites can’t just automatically replace ineligible players with whoever’s still available and fits the salary.

    I’m thinking (within a certain time frame) any player who was ruled out should be replaced with the cheapest alternatives. I would be allowed to make my own swap before a certain deadline. If I can’t, then I would be stuck with that player, even if he’s ALSO ruled out 5 minutes before the game.

    Not possible?

  • JimKronlund

    @SkateFiend said...

    I’m wondering why DFS sites can’t just automatically replace ineligible players with whoever’s still available and fits the salary.

    I’m thinking (within a certain time frame) any player who was ruled out should be replaced with the cheapest alternatives. I would be allowed to make my own swap before a certain deadline. If I can’t, then I would be stuck with that player, even if he’s ALSO ruled out 5 minutes before the game.

    Not possible?

    Not viable, that would be just an element of luck and not skill by any means.

  • btwice80

    @sjs1890 said...

    Not wanting to put it any effort after tipoff when at times the most important news comes out is just laziness.

    No it’s not.

  • TeamTwerk

    The only thing I don’t understand is why only basketball? Wouldn’t the same supposed benefits of removing late swap also apply to Football and Baseball?

  • w3stcoastoff3ns3

    @TeamTwerk said...

    The only thing I don’t understand is why only basketball? Wouldn’t the same supposed benefits of removing late swap also apply to Football and Baseball?

    I always thought about this myself.

  • Njsum1

    @w3stcoastoff3ns3 said...

    I always thought about this myself.

    The reason DK gave for removing late swap from NBA was that it detracts from the experience or enjoyment (and IMO they were right) having to monitor news all night. In baseball you don’t have to monitor news once lineups are released as maybe once or twice per season a player will be late scratched. So your not glued to Twitter or whatever news source you use waiting for news in baseball. Therefore, the late swap isn’t taking away from the overall enjoyment/experience. So on the rare occasion a late scratch happens, late swap is more useful than annoying imo.

    And in football, same thing, you don’t need to glued to your device waiting for news, other than the release of inactives, which is usually released an hour before a games start, so again late swap is not taking away from the enjoyment of the game. It’s also a weekly event, so your not doing it night after night, ad Naseum. It’s actually helpful in football since the game times are staggered across an entire day or multiple days.

    That’s my best guess anyway

  • billholler

    @Njsum1 said...

    The reason DK gave for removing late swap from NBA was that it detracts from the experience or enjoyment (and IMO they were right) having to monitor news all night. In baseball you don’t have to monitor news once lineups are released as maybe once or twice per season a player will be late scratched. So your not glued to Twitter or whatever news source you use waiting for news in baseball. Therefore, the late swap isn’t taking away from the overall enjoyment/experience. So on the rare occasion a late scratch happens, late swap is more useful than annoying imo.

    Haven’t been posting much lately but this same tired argument just pisses me off. Tell me how much enjoyment I am going to get out of watching NBA if I find out an hour after lock that I have multiple lineups that are dead because of this sudden new trend of players taking random rest days with no notice? The thread tracking the late unexpected scratches for nothing more than a rest day kind of died out because everyone seems to have accepted getting screwed by a player sitting with no notice. And don’t give me the excuse of it’s a veteran on the 2nd game of a road B2B and I should have known better. 95% of the time those players still suit up and play. It’s the other 5% that “ruins the experience”. Try playing a full slate with the Cavs playing at Golden State and the Spurs playing at Utah with at least 2 of the 4 teams on B2Bs. That’s a nightmare slate with too many stars to just fade both games just to be safe.

    As for NFL, no way DK can expect to maintain it’s numbers on multi-day slates without late swap with many questionable players not being officially scratched until a few hours before game time.

    As for MLB, the problem is with weather and not random late scratches.

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